Copy Wheel Sharingan?

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

does anyone else get the feeling that Kishimoto want's us to forget about the sharingans copying abilities? it seems to me that since the first half of part one, Sharingan users are purposefully kept away from fighting anyone with an ability that can be copied.

In part one, to stop sasuke from becoming to powerful Kishimoto always uses some story event to make sure sasuke wasn't around to copy a jutsu.

He couldn't copy Haku because Haku used a Kekkei genkai.
He couldn't copy Orochimaru because Orochimaru struck before he could activate his sharingan.
He was then unconscious when Ino-Shika_Cho joined the fight.
the Curse mark prevented him from using his sharingan against Yoroi
He was then completely absent from the Chunin Exam until he fought Garra.
Couldn't copy Garra because his sand jutsu is an innate ability from his mother ??? (kinda confused on that one tbh)
He then fought Naruto and couldn't copy the rasengan because his chakra control wasn't good enough. Either that or he could copy it but decides not to use it. Same goes for Shadow clone (note. notice I said shadow clone and not multi-shadow clone, I know he doesn't have enough chakra for the latter)
Can't copy Deidara because Deidara uses a Kekkei Genkai.

then he got the Magekyou and doesn't seem to need anything else after that. sasanoo perfect defence, Amatarasu perfect offence.


The same can be said for Kakashi as well, after Zabuza of course. he's never seen copying another jutsu despite the fact that thats what he's famous for. He only ever seems to end up fighting someone with a kekkei genkai or some other excuse as to why the technique can't be copied.

does anyone else think that this feels like a little bit of a cheat? I mean why doesn't kakashi or sasuke just go to say Sarutobi or any other powerful ninja and say "hey, i've been thinking thats its best for the village to have as many powerful ninja as possible. and since I can learn many powerful techniques instantly I think it will be beneficial to me and subsequently the village if you just do a little demonstration for me. one day out of your schedule and I'll become the best me possible to help defend the village."

[Corsain]

It's kind of debatable on whether it would be helpful or not. Even if they copy the jutsu, you can't really expect them to be that good at using it. I think that the characters just keep to using a select few jutsu that they master completely (or as close to it as they can) so they can be effective rather than have a ton of jutsu that they are "meh" with. .

Sasuke can be an example of his mastery (before the mangekyo) where he would use the chidori, and the variants that he created, really well.

As for Kakashi, I don't really think that he copied any jutsu from Zabuza. The jutsu that Zabuza had used seemed to be rather common so for someone who "copied over 1000 jutsu" I doubt Kakashi didn't already have them. He probably just said that he copied them from Zabuza to psyche him out.

Also copying in the heat of battle probably wouldn't be the best if they want to try out the new jutsu that they had never used before, if they were going for the copy-train approach it would probably be best under controlled situations

But these are just my thoughts 3nodding

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Corsain

It's kind of debatable on whether it would be helpful or not. Even if they copy the jutsu, you can't really expect them to be that good at using it. I think that the characters just keep to using a select few jutsu that they master completely (or as close to it as they can) so they can be effective rather than have a ton of jutsu that they are "meh" with. .

Sasuke can be an example of his mastery (before the mangekyo) where he would use the chidori, and the variants that he created, really well.

As for Kakashi, I don't really think that he copied any jutsu from Zabuza. The jutsu that Zabuza had used seemed to be rather common so for someone who "copied over 1000 jutsu" I doubt Kakashi didn't already have them. He probably just said that he copied them from Zabuza to psyche him out.

Also copying in the heat of battle probably wouldn't be the best if they want to try out the new jutsu that they had never used before, if they were going for the copy-train approach it would probably be best under controlled situations

But these are just my thoughts 3nodding

well actually kakashi did copy zabuza's. Zabuza used the silent killing technique and that technique is only ever used by the 7 swordsman. and early in the series they stated that whilst the two tome sharingan can copy jutsu, the three tome allows you to predict your opponents next movement so that you can use it simultaneously as they do. this is also why zabuza had to block kakashi's eye with his hidden mist technique the second time they fought.

I'll agree with you to a degree, for example sasuke copied lees moves but can't use them for long periods of time like lee can because though sasuke can match lee's speed. he can't match lee's endurance.

[Yes Sequitur]

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

[Yes Sequitur]

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

[Yes Sequitur]

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

you have to think how does the sharingan let you copy a jutsu. it gives you the perspective you need to understand how to perform the technique yourself. Sasuke learnt how lee performed those techniques with the use of his sharingan, he couldn't perform them instantly because his body wasn't up to par. thats why he needed to do the training and came back all bandaged up. but he still leant how to do it instantly.
also how does using multiple different kinds of jutsu make you predictable, it makes you unpredictable by definition, what makes you think he would just attack with a mid-long range jutsu everytime. for example, zabuza's silent killing is an amazing versatile technique, but kakashi never uses it again for no good reason. also water clones, kakashi never uses water clones again despite the fact that you use a bunch, make the field all watery and supercharge Raikiri. but no, Kishimoto doesn't seem to like sharingan users using copied techniques after a certain point in the manga.


but yeah, I agree their is no need to use multiple different jutsu when a few versatile ones will do. I never disagreed with that. and no where does it say that zabuza's techniques were simple, your underestimating kakashi's ability. nature changing chakra isn't simple, especially to a nature type thats not you're affinity. Kakashi uses his sharingan to learn how its done and duplicate it, thats how the sharingan works.

[Yes Sequitur]

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Sounds like you expect too much from the sharingan. Copying techniques with sharingan is not that simple. Some jutsu are advanced and complex. Some jutsu can be hard but still simple, like the water dragon jutsu. Do a bunch of hand signs, mold your chakra in a special way and you got water dragon. But when Sasuke tried to copy Lee's moves, he had to work incredibly hard to gain the speed required to copy Lee's technique effectively.

yeah but I'm already discounting jutsu that also require special extra conditions like being a kekkei genkai user or the jutsu requiring a particular skill that can't be copied. I'm just saying it seems really convenient that all the opponents the sharingan users faced all had special condition jutsu. I mean their doesn't seem to be a reason that sasuke can't copy shikamaru's shadow techniques, ino's mind related jutsu or kiba's 'fang' jutsu. He just doesn't seem to be around when they use their jutsu. I mean their are more 'non specialty jutsu' than their are 'specialty jutsu' and yet all of the sharingan users never seem to face them or be around them when they use their jutsu.

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

you have to think how does the sharingan let you copy a jutsu. it gives you the perspective you need to understand how to perform the technique yourself. Sasuke learnt how lee performed those techniques with the use of his sharingan, he couldn't perform them instantly because his body wasn't up to par. thats why he needed to do the training and came back all bandaged up. but he still leant how to do it instantly.
also how does using multiple different kinds of jutsu make you predictable, it makes you unpredictable by definition, what makes you think he would just attack with a mid-long range jutsu everytime. for example, zabuza's silent killing is an amazing versatile technique, but kakashi never uses it again for no good reason. also water clones, kakashi never uses water clones again despite the fact that you use a bunch, make the field all watery and supercharge Raikiri. but no, Kishimoto doesn't seem to like sharingan users using copied techniques after a certain point in the manga.

but yeah, I agree their is no need to use multiple different jutsu when a few versatile ones will do. I never disagreed with that. and no where does it say that zabuza's techniques were simple, your underestimating kakashi's ability. nature changing chakra isn't simple, especially to a nature type thats not you're affinity. Kakashi uses his sharingan to learn how its done and duplicate it, thats how the sharingan works.

I get what you mean about the learning part now. You were pretty misleading but now you cleared it up. Yes, Sasuke could analyze Lee's style on the spot but he didn't learn "how to do it", he learned how it's done. Might sound similar but completely different actually.

Zabuza's mist technique hinders the sharingan's field of vision. Proof: Zabuza completely passed Kakashi and went right in front of the bridge builder in that fight. So how do you know that Kakashi copied it right? Zabuza's techniques are simple. s**t ton of hand signs, mold your chakra and focus it in and release. That water dragon technique might seem like a great combination of nature transformation and shape transformation, but its just a B-rank technique. Also technically, everyone have all five nature affinities. Its just that people are more tuned to one type of nature affinity than others. The stronger they get in nature manipulation, the more affinities they can learn to use, but its incredibly hard to learn all of them. Kakashi makes it completely easy with sharingan. He can visually see the difference of how chakra is molded for each affinity and can copy that down.

Also, if Kakashi were to use a bunch of different techniques, his opponent will constantly keep their guard up and it'll be harder to attack them. Like Kakashi and Haku once said, deception and trickery are a shinobi's most important techniques. A shinobi should make their opponent feel comfortable so they can lose their guard and find an opportunity to strike. Constantly staying on the offensive with various techniques makes you lose chakra very quickly and make let your opponent be wary of everything you do.

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

you have to think how does the sharingan let you copy a jutsu. it gives you the perspective you need to understand how to perform the technique yourself. Sasuke learnt how lee performed those techniques with the use of his sharingan, he couldn't perform them instantly because his body wasn't up to par. thats why he needed to do the training and came back all bandaged up. but he still leant how to do it instantly.
also how does using multiple different kinds of jutsu make you predictable, it makes you unpredictable by definition, what makes you think he would just attack with a mid-long range jutsu everytime. for example, zabuza's silent killing is an amazing versatile technique, but kakashi never uses it again for no good reason. also water clones, kakashi never uses water clones again despite the fact that you use a bunch, make the field all watery and supercharge Raikiri. but no, Kishimoto doesn't seem to like sharingan users using copied techniques after a certain point in the manga.

but yeah, I agree their is no need to use multiple different jutsu when a few versatile ones will do. I never disagreed with that. and no where does it say that zabuza's techniques were simple, your underestimating kakashi's ability. nature changing chakra isn't simple, especially to a nature type thats not you're affinity. Kakashi uses his sharingan to learn how its done and duplicate it, thats how the sharingan works.

I get what you mean about the learning part now. You were pretty misleading but now you cleared it up. Yes, Sasuke could analyze Lee's style on the spot but he didn't learn "how to do it", he learned how it's done. Might sound similar but completely different actually.

Zabuza's mist technique hinders the sharingan's field of vision. Proof: Zabuza completely passed Kakashi and went right in front of the bridge builder in that fight. So how do you know that Kakashi copied it right? Zabuza's techniques are simple. s**t ton of hand signs, mold your chakra and focus it in and release. That water dragon technique might seem like a great combination of nature transformation and shape transformation, but its just a B-rank technique. Also technically, everyone have all five nature affinities. Its just that people are more tuned to one type of nature affinity than others. The stronger they get in nature manipulation, the more affinities they can learn to use, but its incredibly hard to learn all of them. Kakashi makes it completely easy with sharingan. He can visually see the difference of how chakra is molded for each affinity and can copy that down.

Also, if Kakashi were to use a bunch of different techniques, his opponent will constantly keep their guard up and it'll be harder to attack them. Like Kakashi and Haku once said, deception and trickery are a shinobi's most important techniques. A shinobi should make their opponent feel comfortable so they can lose their guard and find an opportunity to strike. Constantly staying on the offensive with various techniques makes you lose chakra very quickly and make let your opponent be wary of everything you do.

Kakashi copied zabuza's techniques before zabuza used his hidden mist. zabuza only used hidden mist in the second battle, not the first.

their is a difference between affinity and chakra nature, affinity is the chakra nature you have an well lol, an affinity for. other chakra natures can be learnt, and yes, having the sharingan makes it easy.

and what your saying about what haku and kakashi said only makes sense if they use the same jutsu again and again only to finally use a different one to catch the opponent off guard. but kakashi never uses this tactic ever again after the zabuza fight, after zabuza he only uses raikiri, raikiri, raikiri, and very rarely earth style when he's in a pinch.

[Yes Sequitur]

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

If all you do is copy an opponent's techniques, the more predictable you'll be. If someone fighting a sharingan user thinks that person will copy his own techniques, that someone would try to take the advantages of the weaknesses of their own fighting style. The sharingan user can't now read the person's movements and figure out the weaknesses and counter back. Tsunade explained to Sakura that once a shinobi becomes a chunin and genin, they become wary of their weaknesses and learn to change their combat styles to conceal them. If they suddenly become careless with a sharingan user, it would just end up being a total waste of effort and possibly deadly mistake.

No not really, when the sharingan user copies a jutsu, he doesn't just copy it, he learns it instantly. he would see how the chakra is distributed, he would see what parts of their body are left vulnerable. if what you're saying is true than kakashi wouldn't of fought the way he did against zabuza. and I'm not talking about only using techniques copied in that one battle. Kakashi has copied over 1000 jutsu for example, and I'm sure his earth style techniques were copied as well, and he uses those quite often.

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

you have to think how does the sharingan let you copy a jutsu. it gives you the perspective you need to understand how to perform the technique yourself. Sasuke learnt how lee performed those techniques with the use of his sharingan, he couldn't perform them instantly because his body wasn't up to par. thats why he needed to do the training and came back all bandaged up. but he still leant how to do it instantly.
also how does using multiple different kinds of jutsu make you predictable, it makes you unpredictable by definition, what makes you think he would just attack with a mid-long range jutsu everytime. for example, zabuza's silent killing is an amazing versatile technique, but kakashi never uses it again for no good reason. also water clones, kakashi never uses water clones again despite the fact that you use a bunch, make the field all watery and supercharge Raikiri. but no, Kishimoto doesn't seem to like sharingan users using copied techniques after a certain point in the manga.

but yeah, I agree their is no need to use multiple different jutsu when a few versatile ones will do. I never disagreed with that. and no where does it say that zabuza's techniques were simple, your underestimating kakashi's ability. nature changing chakra isn't simple, especially to a nature type thats not you're affinity. Kakashi uses his sharingan to learn how its done and duplicate it, thats how the sharingan works.

I get what you mean about the learning part now. You were pretty misleading but now you cleared it up. Yes, Sasuke could analyze Lee's style on the spot but he didn't learn "how to do it", he learned how it's done. Might sound similar but completely different actually.

Zabuza's mist technique hinders the sharingan's field of vision. Proof: Zabuza completely passed Kakashi and went right in front of the bridge builder in that fight. So how do you know that Kakashi copied it right? Zabuza's techniques are simple. s**t ton of hand signs, mold your chakra and focus it in and release. That water dragon technique might seem like a great combination of nature transformation and shape transformation, but its just a B-rank technique. Also technically, everyone have all five nature affinities. Its just that people are more tuned to one type of nature affinity than others. The stronger they get in nature manipulation, the more affinities they can learn to use, but its incredibly hard to learn all of them. Kakashi makes it completely easy with sharingan. He can visually see the difference of how chakra is molded for each affinity and can copy that down.

Also, if Kakashi were to use a bunch of different techniques, his opponent will constantly keep their guard up and it'll be harder to attack them. Like Kakashi and Haku once said, deception and trickery are a shinobi's most important techniques. A shinobi should make their opponent feel comfortable so they can lose their guard and find an opportunity to strike. Constantly staying on the offensive with various techniques makes you lose chakra very quickly and make let your opponent be wary of everything you do.

Kakashi copied zabuza's techniques before zabuza used his hidden mist. zabuza only used hidden mist in the second battle, not the first.

their is a difference between affinity and chakra nature, affinity is the chakra nature you have an well lol, an affinity for. other chakra natures can be learnt, and yes, having the sharingan makes it easy.

and what your saying about what haku and kakashi said only makes sense if they use the same jutsu again and again only to finally use a different one to catch the opponent off guard. but kakashi never uses this tactic ever again after the zabuza fight, after zabuza he only uses raikiri, raikiri, raikiri, and very rarely earth style when he's in a pinch.

Rewatch that battle. Zabuza did use hidden mist in the first battle. He used it in both. The only techniques Kakashi copied from Zabuza was water dragon. He already knew how to use water clones. Also, me confusing affinity and chakra nature doesn't matter, I made my point.

Deception is not only using the same technique repeatedly and then switching. Its more complicated than that. He might not have used a bunch of techniques with zabuza but he did deceive him with keeping the same fighting style throughout the first fight. Kakashi made zabuza think that his sharingan can see the future. Zabuza had to realize all the way until the second fight started what the sharingan actually did.

[Bogotanian]

You know what? I agree with you. I remember thinking how awesome it was for the Sharingan to be able to completely copy a jutsu, and let the user see the person and be able to predict their movements.

Now it's all become Mangekyo Sharingan, Susanoo, Amaterasu, Kamui (though I like Kakashi's technique), OP stuff

I kind of miss when the Sharingan was first introduced, and it was insane thinking that someone could see an opponent's attack, and if they were quick enough, could counter it due to their Sharingan. And yeah, it's not really used to copy jutsus anymore even though that's what Kakashi became known for. Also, I feel like they're gone away from the genjutsu capabilities of Sharingan (like Tsukuyomi) it's all Mangekyo OP stuff now.

I kind of miss when fighting involved more taijutsu, and it was awesome watching someone with Sharingan fight, and juts be able to predict their movements and keep up hand to hand.

[Jin_of_the_thunder]

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Jin_of_the_thunder

Yes Sequitur

Dude, sharingan doesn't make you learn any technique instantaneously, you copy it. The simpler the technique, the better you'll copy it. I already explained this with the Sasuke and Lee thing. Lee's fighting style takes an incredible amount of hard work and speed to perform. That's why Sasuke arrived in the final chunin exam with bandages, he was training hard to copy Lee's style so he strained his body. Zabuza's techniques just take up a large amount of chakra. They may be hard to do but they're simple. That's why Kakashi copied all of his techniques on the spot. And it was Kakashi's first fight ever on the show so Kishimoto might as well give a good demonstration of the sharingan's abilities.

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?. Not only is it a quick waste of chakra, but he'll just end being predictable if he's constantly going to attack with mid-long range ninjutsu every time. He only uses techniques that are ideal for the situation he's in. Like earth style wall technique is great because its strength depends on the power of the user. His walls can be as small and as big as he wants. Not many ninjutsu techniques are like that. They're mostly all have a minimum and a maximum amount of strength that could be applied.

you have to think how does the sharingan let you copy a jutsu. it gives you the perspective you need to understand how to perform the technique yourself. Sasuke learnt how lee performed those techniques with the use of his sharingan, he couldn't perform them instantly because his body wasn't up to par. thats why he needed to do the training and came back all bandaged up. but he still leant how to do it instantly.
also how does using multiple different kinds of jutsu make you predictable, it makes you unpredictable by definition, what makes you think he would just attack with a mid-long range jutsu everytime. for example, zabuza's silent killing is an amazing versatile technique, but kakashi never uses it again for no good reason. also water clones, kakashi never uses water clones again despite the fact that you use a bunch, make the field all watery and supercharge Raikiri. but no, Kishimoto doesn't seem to like sharingan users using copied techniques after a certain point in the manga.

but yeah, I agree their is no need to use multiple different jutsu when a few versatile ones will do. I never disagreed with that. and no where does it say that zabuza's techniques were simple, your underestimating kakashi's ability. nature changing chakra isn't simple, especially to a nature type thats not you're affinity. Kakashi uses his sharingan to learn how its done and duplicate it, thats how the sharingan works.

I get what you mean about the learning part now. You were pretty misleading but now you cleared it up. Yes, Sasuke could analyze Lee's style on the spot but he didn't learn "how to do it", he learned how it's done. Might sound similar but completely different actually.

Zabuza's mist technique hinders the sharingan's field of vision. Proof: Zabuza completely passed Kakashi and went right in front of the bridge builder in that fight. So how do you know that Kakashi copied it right? Zabuza's techniques are simple. s**t ton of hand signs, mold your chakra and focus it in and release. That water dragon technique might seem like a great combination of nature transformation and shape transformation, but its just a B-rank technique. Also technically, everyone have all five nature affinities. Its just that people are more tuned to one type of nature affinity than others. The stronger they get in nature manipulation, the more affinities they can learn to use, but its incredibly hard to learn all of them. Kakashi makes it completely easy with sharingan. He can visually see the difference of how chakra is molded for each affinity and can copy that down.

Also, if Kakashi were to use a bunch of different techniques, his opponent will constantly keep their guard up and it'll be harder to attack them. Like Kakashi and Haku once said, deception and trickery are a shinobi's most important techniques. A shinobi should make their opponent feel comfortable so they can lose their guard and find an opportunity to strike. Constantly staying on the offensive with various techniques makes you lose chakra very quickly and make let your opponent be wary of everything you do.

Kakashi copied zabuza's techniques before zabuza used his hidden mist. zabuza only used hidden mist in the second battle, not the first.

their is a difference between affinity and chakra nature, affinity is the chakra nature you have an well lol, an affinity for. other chakra natures can be learnt, and yes, having the sharingan makes it easy.

and what your saying about what haku and kakashi said only makes sense if they use the same jutsu again and again only to finally use a different one to catch the opponent off guard. but kakashi never uses this tactic ever again after the zabuza fight, after zabuza he only uses raikiri, raikiri, raikiri, and very rarely earth style when he's in a pinch.

Rewatch that battle. Zabuza did use hidden mist in the first battle. He used it in both. The only techniques Kakashi copied from Zabuza was water dragon. He already knew how to use water clones. Also, me confusing affinity and chakra nature doesn't matter, I made my point.

Deception is not only using the same technique repeatedly and then switching. Its more complicated than that. He might not have used a bunch of techniques with zabuza but he did deceive him with keeping the same fighting style throughout the first fight. Kakashi made zabuza think that his sharingan can see the future. Zabuza had to realize all the way until the second fight started what the sharingan actually did.

I stand corrected, zabua did use the hidden mist technique in the first battle. but kakashi was still able to see and copy zabuza's techniques. zabuza wasn't constantly hiding in the mist.

[Bittersweet Music]

Yes Sequitur

And yes, Kakashi has copied that many techniques but he doesn't use them all in a fight does he?.

well isn't because kishimoto is plain when it comes
to develop his characters, because you mention
something about being predictable, but kakashi is
enough predictable,
as we know he will use chidori, or kamui etc etc.
he doesn't do anything else besides chidori.

I'm pretty sure kakashi can do more, and I hoped for that too
but kishi is just kishi.