The Legendary Guest
Rumblestiltskin
The Legendary Guest
TJ Raptor
The Legendary Guest
Referencing the bible obliquely is not the same as quoting scripture, dude. A general statement such as I made:
..is derived from what can be found in scripture, true enough, yet it does not quote a single word of it. The point is that scripture is often quoted as though that ended the argument, when what is actually being argued is the lessons derived from the scripture. Does that make sense?
It does make sense. I'm not saying it quotes scripture. I'm saying that quoting scripture would be incredibly more credible proof than referencing it indirectly. I see what you're saying, and I understand it qualified; I'm simply saying accepting the indirect proof over the direct makes no sense.
In order to reference the bible as proof you'd have to first demonstrate that it is credible to begin with, which it isn't, and that's sort of the point of the thread. There is nothing wrong with challenging beliefs and lessons without directly referencing the teachers and texts. We do it all the time for all sorts of concepts. Why should the concept of religion be any different?
Actually, I'm with TJ on this one...mostly cause I'm sure that either of us could point to bible verses that show how immoral it is (i.e. The absolutely ridiculous idea of punishing a rape victim)...now, if someone left it as JUST bible verses, yeah, I can see where THAT would be a problem...but if I can use bible verses to show their scriptures are immoral, they at least deserve to have the same opportunity.
You think we cannot talk about the concepts being taught without referencing the texts themselves?
That's not what I'm saying. I just think it's fine to use biblical verses as a reference, as long as their sole argument isn't "it's in the bible, so it must be true." Again, if I can use their book to show that what they're being taught is immoral, if I want to be fair, I have to grant them the same ability. If a moral argument can be made without referencing the bible, then I think that's fine as well and maybe preferable, so that the thread doesn't turn into a bible-quoting marathon. But there are things that the bible says that ARE moral (like to love your neighbor), and I know a lot of christians who take that as the important message and don't quite believe all the other s**t it says...remember, not all christians are hardcore fundies who think the bible should be taken literally. In fact, with the amount of people turning away from the churches nowadays, I'd say more people are taking a more liberal view of the bible and christianity in general.