Without the Holy Spirit no one can see God.

[stealthmongoose]

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

You cannot know God or understand scripture without the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Did you think that you could?

I think I could understand without "the gift of the Holy Spirit," yeah. Because this whole "magic energy/belief is required to understand" sounds like bullshit to me.

What matters is a mindset. You can look at lines of mathematical formulae and make neither heads nor tails of it. But then you learn about it, and it becomes clear. No different from learning a language, or learning how to paint, or play music. The important thing is that you are able to see the connections from Point A to Point B, understanding the logical consistency between them.

This is no claim of what method is "right," of course. But that's really all it takes. An atheist might call it "gullibility," but I much prefer that term I used, mindset. A worldview, or a frame of reference.

It's a human trait that follows across the board, there is nothing special or unique here. And that's not to belittle anyone's faith - on the contrary, I'd say it makes the whole thing a lot more sensible. You don't necessarily understand why someone could like a book, or a movie, or a video game, until you've read/watched/played it, and either understood, or had it explained, just why they love it so much. Perhaps the characters, or the plot, or the gameplay, or the challenge, or some deep well of human psychology that they tap into. s**t, you could get a spiritual experience from them, but I think that's another topic entirely.

The point is, you're a jackass if you think your experience is something exclusive only to those "blessed."

anonymous attributes

Lady Kariel

anonymous attributes

If He was anointed before He received the holy spirit, what was He anointed with? I'm just making inquire at this point to see where it leads and see your input.

I see what you mean. I know in Jewish custom anointed means to smear or rub with holy oil as a sort of symbol of royalty. So I do not know if it is a literal "anointed" or "anointed" as a figurative way of saying "chosen."

I believe Jesus was anointed as meaning chosen by God, and not with literal oil.

What I am trying to get at specifically though is what would the spirit of Jesus be.

No s**t. Religion abounds with metaphors. The problem (with both theists and atheists) is when people start taking it literally.

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

What you're providing is a fruitless discussion. You define the Holy Spirit as this thing that you need in order to see God, then blatantly dismiss other scripture on the basis of being "metaphorical.

This is all without providing an inkling of reason as to why the rest of us shouldn't take the whole Bible as metaphor or any scripture, for that matter.

If I could sum up any of my objections into a single question, it would be this.

If you can see one verse as metaphor and not another, what verifiable reason do any of the rest of us have for seeing it the same way you do?

Can you provide (as an example) at least one other person (on gaia or otherwise) who also has the Holy Spirit with them and can maybe explain to us, better than you can, the reasoning behind your solipsistic statements?

[anonymous attributes]

stealthmongoose

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

You cannot know God or understand scripture without the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Did you think that you could?

I think I could understand without "the gift of the Holy Spirit," yeah. Because this whole "magic energy/belief is required to understand" sounds like bullshit to me.

What matters is a mindset. You can look at lines of mathematical formulae and make neither heads nor tails of it. But then you learn about it, and it becomes clear. No different from learning a language, or learning how to paint, or play music. The important thing is that you are able to see the connections from Point A to Point B, understanding the logical consistency between them.

This is no claim of what method is "right," of course. But that's really all it takes. An atheist might call it "gullibility," but I much prefer that term I used, mindset. A worldview, or a frame of reference.

It's a human trait that follows across the board, there is nothing special or unique here. And that's not to belittle anyone's faith - on the contrary, I'd say it makes the whole thing a lot more sensible. You don't necessarily understand why someone could like a book, or a movie, or a video game, until you've read/watched/played it, and either understood, or had it explained, just why they love it so much. Perhaps the characters, or the plot, or the gameplay, or the challenge, or some deep well of human psychology that they tap into. s**t, you could get a spiritual experience from them, but I think that's another topic entirely.

The point is, you're a jackass if you think your experience is something exclusive only to those "blessed."

anonymous attributes

Lady Kariel

I see what you mean. I know in Jewish custom anointed means to smear or rub with holy oil as a sort of symbol of royalty. So I do not know if it is a literal "anointed" or "anointed" as a figurative way of saying "chosen."

I believe Jesus was anointed as meaning chosen by God, and not with literal oil.

What I am trying to get at specifically though is what would the spirit of Jesus be.

No s**t. Religion abounds with metaphors. The problem (with both theists and atheists) is when people start taking it literally.

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

What you're providing is a fruitless discussion. You define the Holy Spirit as this thing that you need in order to see God, then blatantly dismiss other scripture on the basis of being "metaphorical.

This is all without providing an inkling of reason as to why the rest of us shouldn't take the whole Bible as metaphor or any scripture, for that matter.

If I could sum up any of my objections into a single question, it would be this.

If you can see one verse as metaphor and not another, what verifiable reason do any of the rest of us have for seeing it the same way you do?

Can you provide (as an example) at least one other person (on gaia or otherwise) who also has the Holy Spirit with them and can maybe explain to us, better than you can, the reasoning behind your solipsistic statements?

It may be fruitless to you, but it is not to others. Do not think that you can fully understand Gods word and see Him without His own Spirit which gave the very word.

Who intrusts a work to anyone if they believe not in the fruit there of?

If there is something you do not understand, ask instead of judging that I dismiss scripture. Who are you to decide what is the teaching and what is not? do you share the faith? You say I don't need faith and the Spirit to understand, but how will you understand that word which was given through and by faith? If the word was given by the Spirit and by faith, you cannot understand it without the same power that gave it.

I certainly am not the only one, and it is very possibly that another believer can make known these things in a plainer way than myself. But who they are or where they are at I do not know. If they wanted to do so, it would be done, and the day it is done is the day there will be a riot and the spirit of man puts itself forth.

It is not meant to be given to you plainly. If anyone wanted to understand it might be given to them, but because they do not, it is not given, although they pretend.

[Xiam]

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

[anonymous attributes]

Xiam

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

[Xiam]

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

That's not what I asked.

Have you, personally, seen God?

Because if you haven't, then how do you even know that you have this "Holy Spirit"? Hm?

Basically, unless you, personally, have seen God, you can only take their word for it. There is no verifiability. No, not even the Bible.

Star Wars taught me that if I reach out with my feelings, and feel the Force flowing through me, I can deflect blaster bolts with my eyes covered. It also taught me that I can become a ghost if I die, if I meditate in the right way. Would you disagree? After all, there was a prophecy of a savior who would bring balance to the Force. And so it came to be. So I'm not sure what the problem would be, do you?

[anonymous attributes]

Xiam

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

That's not what I asked.

Have you, personally, seen God?

Because if you haven't, then how do you even know that you have this "Holy Spirit"? Hm?

Basically, unless you, personally, have seen God, you can only take their word for it. There is no verifiability. No, not even the Bible.

Star Wars taught me that if I reach out with my feelings, and feel the Force flowing through me, I can deflect blaster bolts with my eyes covered. It also taught me that I can become a ghost if I die, if I meditate in the right way. Would you disagree? After all, there was a prophecy of a savior who would bring balance to the Force. And so it came to be. So I'm not sure what the problem would be, do you?

If I did not answer your question, then you did not read my answer.

[Xiam]

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

That's not what I asked.

Have you, personally, seen God?

Because if you haven't, then how do you even know that you have this "Holy Spirit"? Hm?

Basically, unless you, personally, have seen God, you can only take their word for it. There is no verifiability. No, not even the Bible.

Star Wars taught me that if I reach out with my feelings, and feel the Force flowing through me, I can deflect blaster bolts with my eyes covered. It also taught me that I can become a ghost if I die, if I meditate in the right way. Would you disagree? After all, there was a prophecy of a savior who would bring balance to the Force. And so it came to be. So I'm not sure what the problem would be, do you?

If I did not answer your question, then you did not read my answer.

I'm repeating again for your sake.

[anonymous attributes]

Xiam

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

No one can see God without the Holy Spirit.

I believed the scriptures before I understood my statement. Later I looked at scholars and they all make the same mistakes, I found out non of them had faith or the Holy Spirit and that was their problem. They simply could not get passed certain things and understand them because they didn't have faith. What you say doesn't change the fact of what God has put down and has been proven by God through the holy spirit by the individuals. These do not ask for your help. But thanks for your opinion, it is incorrect however.

Do not curse or disrespect in my thread or you will be blocked.

emotion_facepalm Alright then, here's a question: Have you seen God? In what way?

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

That's not what I asked.

Have you, personally, seen God?

Because if you haven't, then how do you even know that you have this "Holy Spirit"? Hm?

Basically, unless you, personally, have seen God, you can only take their word for it. There is no verifiability. No, not even the Bible.

Star Wars taught me that if I reach out with my feelings, and feel the Force flowing through me, I can deflect blaster bolts with my eyes covered. It also taught me that I can become a ghost if I die, if I meditate in the right way. Would you disagree? After all, there was a prophecy of a savior who would bring balance to the Force. And so it came to be. So I'm not sure what the problem would be, do you?

If I did not answer your question, then you did not read my answer.

I'm repeating again for your sake.

Pay attention and you might not have to.

[Xiam]

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

Xiam

anonymous attributes

God is spirit.

It is said that Moses has seen God face to face, but Moses also says no one can see God or he will die (Probably something do with incomprehensible means and infinity in nature that would destroy the flesh) and David says the same thing. The prophets also claim to see God. Jesus Christ said, "He who sees Me has seen the Father." yet just like all the others He also tells us, "No one has seen God at any time." John, who was said to be have been boiled in oil and later banished on the isle of Patmos says the same thing.

Jesus said, "God is Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth."

Everyone who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior has begun to see God through the Holy Spirit and has seen God.

God resists the proud but give grace to the humble.

Matthew 5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

That's not what I asked.

Have you, personally, seen God?

Because if you haven't, then how do you even know that you have this "Holy Spirit"? Hm?

Basically, unless you, personally, have seen God, you can only take their word for it. There is no verifiability. No, not even the Bible.

Star Wars taught me that if I reach out with my feelings, and feel the Force flowing through me, I can deflect blaster bolts with my eyes covered. It also taught me that I can become a ghost if I die, if I meditate in the right way. Would you disagree? After all, there was a prophecy of a savior who would bring balance to the Force. And so it came to be. So I'm not sure what the problem would be, do you?

If I did not answer your question, then you did not read my answer.

I'm repeating again for your sake.

Pay attention and you might not have to.

Pay attention and you'd understand why I do.

Basically... what you're saying is no. You haven't seen God. Basically you have to take it on faith - i.e. what I just said above.

I've nothing against people who believe in something, just as I have nothing against people who don't believe in something. But what I don't like are pompous assholes who think they know better than everyone else.

And how do they know better? Why, because they're right, of course! And how do they know they're right? Because they believe the right thing! And how do they know they believe the right thing? Because, why, if they didn't, they wouldn't believe it, would they? But what if they did believe the wrong thing? Certainly not, they believe the right thing! And so on and so forth, usually with the same authoritarian crap as you so kindly offered with the Bible, or as atheists might give with "Well, X said Y." And nobody ******** cares what X said but them.

[Japantsu]

anonymous attributes

IronySandwich

anonymous attributes

IronySandwich

That's a very convenient excuse for why The Bible really means what you want it to mean instead of what is actually written.

Do you know God? If you do not know God you cannot know His word either. Simple as that.

I know far more about the various gods people have worshiped throughout history than you ever will. I don't mean for that to come off as bragging, because frankly all it takes to clear that hurdle is 15 minutes on Wikipedia.

If Wikipedia is your source, I don't want to know about it.

You do not know me.

If the bible is your source, I don't want to know about it.
you do not know me.

[anonymous attributes]

Japantsu

anonymous attributes

IronySandwich

anonymous attributes

IronySandwich

That's a very convenient excuse for why The Bible really means what you want it to mean instead of what is actually written.

Do you know God? If you do not know God you cannot know His word either. Simple as that.

I know far more about the various gods people have worshiped throughout history than you ever will. I don't mean for that to come off as bragging, because frankly all it takes to clear that hurdle is 15 minutes on Wikipedia.

If Wikipedia is your source, I don't want to know about it.

You do not know me.

If the bible is your source, I don't want to know about it.
you do not know me.

Why are you complaining in someone else thread.