Wiccan FAQ - ?????? PROFIT

******** THIS s**t IS HILARIOUS INNIT

STEP 1: CALL YOURSELF WICCAN	11.7%	[ 259 ]
STEP 2: BUY STRANGE CLOTHES	6.3%	[ 139 ]
STEP 3: WHINE ABOUT HOW OPPRESSED YOU ARE	10.7%	[ 237 ]
STEP 4: ????????	37.7%	[ 836 ]
STEP 5: PROFIT!	33.6%	[ 744 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2215 ]

[jaden kendam]

he who is called

Okay, hi peoples. I'm Jake, and I ish teh Druid. I'm an Ovate in the OBDO, an Archdruid in the BDO, and a High Priest in the Order of Hecate.

How can you be something that is Celtic and worship something that is not? Did not the Celtic Gods smite you for your ignorance?

he who is called

I am strongly against Wiccanism ( I use the term -ism to imply that the belief in the Wiccan ideology has a primarily reconstructionist basis ) and it's belief in 'magicks' and the sort.

Actually, Wicca does not practice magick. It practices magic. It is a witchcraft religion after all. Also, do you know anything about the old ways of the Druids? If you did, I am sure you would have learned that they are not prone to worshipping gods of thier lands. And if you are such a druid, then you are a reconstructionalist, as the druids were wiped out and not many records exist of thier traditions. I suppose you are going to tell me they all worship Gaia as well.

he who is called

[The criticism I have with Christianity is not so much it's basic fundamentals and principles, for these things are universal in many other Middle Eastern 'book' traditions (i.e. Islam, Zoroastrianism, etc.). The problems that I must cite in the Christian idiology boil down to the practice of these teachings. Jesus himself (according to the very book I am criticising) cast down those who marketed the belief of God in profit within the temple with his fist. Jesus would be appalled at the carrying out of his misconstrewed words and ideals. I believe that Jesus never intended to claim decendence from the Almighty.

Prove that he did not.

he who is called

We must not hate the sinner, but we must hate the sin; etc.

Jesus never talked about hating the sin as far as I know. That came from St. Agustine, I believe.

he who is called

The fundamentalists groups of Christianity, and all previous major religions worldwide; from the Aztec death-cult to the Egyptian Absolutism, the misconstrewing of religious information, cause wide-spread sorrow, distrust, and eventual disbandament of the religion in question.

There are still people who follow the gods of the Aztecs. Also, prove this wide spread sorrow that you are talking of.

he who is called

Christians do EVERYTHING in the name of their God. And what makes them more dangerous than anyone else is that they believe all other religions to be blasphemey that is punishable by death and the sense of a 'manifest destiny' to be the world's sole religion.

Prove that all Christians believe that the other religions are blasphemy and that they are punishable by death.

he who is called

It is the arrogance of the Christians that isolate them from other major religious movements, not doctrine.

I think this is a little of the pot calling the kettle black

he who is called

However; I must conclude by pointing out the shakey foundations that this world's most populous faith is built upon. The entire New Testament was pick and chosen from at the various councils, including but not limited to the infamous Constintinian Council of Nicea in which the Gnostic and various other less-popular and late-written books were expelled from the tome entirely. The entire record of Jesus' life is based upon the Gosples of the twelve ( I say thirteen ) Apostles. In actuality, the grandchildren of the apprentices to these men wrote the Gosples. This is simply an overview of the meaning of Christianity's 'problems.'


=)

This is nice and all, and maybe have some facts in it, but what does it have to do with Wicca? Other than that you think something that was literally created from other types of belief systems is just a reconstructionalist religion?

[he who is called]

Oy vay - Cuchullain is quite the negative one, isn't he?

To address each post individually -- a daunting task...

@Chibikerichan I appologize for the Christian paragraph, I had posted it two nights ago in a thread and it was utterly ignored and I felt I should post it again in another place, I assumed here it could possibly stir a debate, I appologize...

@blindfaith^_^ I appologize, again, that I used the term Druid to describe a follower of the Celtic paganism of the Revivalist movement. I DECLINE to call such people Wiccan or Witches, considering the above labels do not apply to them in the least. The term Druid is the best possible word to use. The OBOD is the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids. I am not against WICCA. I am against WICCANISM. I didn't make that point clear enough.

- Not enough time to respond to cuchullain. -

Edit:
The listing of orginizations I have membership in do not reflect my own beliefs in the slightest, the order of Hecate is a Wiccan orginization in Great Britain, I don't understand their customs but I was given the title as a sign of respect after I led their Beltaine festival at the Hill of Tara.

[A Soporific]

he who is called

- Not enough time to respond to cuchullain.

Which is why I am obligated to point and laugh.

*AHEM*
HA! HA!
*Ahem*

[CuAnnan]

he who is called

Oy vay - Cuchullain is quite the negative one, isn't he?

Let's fill everyone in, shall I?
This guy immed me and told me that he was also part of a fam-trad.
Now, fam trads tend to know their history, and therefore what druids were and why they don't exist anymore, so he's either part of a fam trad that is culturally ignorant, he's turning his back on his heritage or he's a liar.
He also told me that he didn't hold with OBOD because he disagreed with Isaac Bonewit. When I told him that Bonewit was the founder of ADF, not OBOD, he said he had a hand in founding OBOD. Now, OBOD was founded by an Englishman, in (surprisingly enough) England. He was a member of the Ancient Druid Order, chairman or so Wikipedia tells me. ADO has its roots in the eighteenth century. ADF was founded in the eighties. So we know that this guy knows nothing about the various druid orders he's claiming to be a member of. Not proof he's a liar, but strong evidence. It is entirely possible that he forgot the history of the order he's claiming archdruidship of.

he who is called

I appologize, again, that I used the term Druid to describe a follower of the Celtic paganism of the Revivalist movement.

Then you are abusing the word.
That would imply that you are not part of a fam trad.

he who is called

I DECLINE to call such people Wiccan or Witches, considering the above labels do not apply to them in the least.

Wiccans do not claim to be celtic reconstructionalists.

he who is called

The term Druid is the best possible word to use.

No it's not. Celtic Recon is better and doesn't have distinct overtones of cultural rape.

he who is called

I didn't make that point clear enough.

No, no you didn't.

he who is called

Not enough time to respond to cuchullain.

Funny how you had enough time to try and do it via IM.

he who is called

The listing of orginizations I have membership in do not reflect my own beliefs in the slightest

No, you were just using them to try and assert your authority on the matter. However, since I have all but proven you to be a fraud, I think we can ignore you from now on.

he who is called

the order of Hecate is a Wiccan orginization in Great Britain, I don't understand their customs but I was given the title as a sign of respect after I led their Beltaine festival at the Hill of Tara.

When?
And no one person is allowed to run a festival at Tara at Bealtaine. If you meant to say that you ran their part of the festival, then I can check that very easily. I'll ask around the Irish pagan scene since we have had Bealtaine rites there every year for the past twenty or thirty years.

[CuAnnan]

Just to point out one last thing.
THe title of High Priest is reserved for Third Degree Wiccans.
You must be initiated to recieve it.
THey do not hand it out for doing rituals.
There is no shortage of people wanting to do rituals at Teamhair on any of the important dates. The doing of the thing is the honour itself. That this braggart claims to have been rewarded, further, for having done so is offensive, ignorant, untrue and without doubt the most hideous lie I have ever seen.
I have just checked with a steward of Teamhair, the Order of Hecate have never run a Bealtaine festival there.
Oops.
Caught out lying.
Doesn't that just beat all.

[blindfaith^_^]

he who is called

@blindfaith^_^ I appologize, again, that I used the term Druid to describe a follower of the Celtic paganism of the Revivalist movement. I DECLINE to call such people Wiccan or Witches, considering the above labels do not apply to them in the least.

Good because it doesn't sound like these people practice Wicca. I don't know about witchcraft, since its really a tool more than anything else I'm sure some of them are witches and others aren't. Why can't these people be called Celtic Revivalists, if that is what they are? Though I was pretty sure that the Celtic path was alive and well, never really having died out and all that jazz.

Quote:

The OBOD is the Order of Bards, Ovates, and Druids.

Ah, thanks.

Quote:

I am not against WICCA. I am against WICCANISM. I didn't make that point clear enough.

What is the difference between Wicca and Wiccanism? I tried to google it, but I got a lot of junk and very little that sounded realistic.

[CuAnnan]

blindfaith^_^

Good because it doesn't sound like these people practice Wicca. I don't know about witchcraft, since its really a tool more than anything else I'm sure some of them are witches and others aren't. Why can't these people be called Celtic Revivalists, if that is what they are? Though I was pretty sure that the Celtic path was alive and well, never really having died out and all that jazz.

Ironically, the biggest contributor to that was Cromwell. When he banished everyone to connaught, he created an isolated little sector of Ireland that wasn't worth keeping for farming.
Irish culture flourishes there to this day.
Hearing the Celtic sagas being sung by a Sean-nós singer was one of the most profound spiritual experiences of my life.

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Thank you, Reagun. Or do you prefer Cuchullain? Or Wing? Either way, very nicely done.

He who is called - Putting aside your own religious issues, I would very strongly recommend that you not lecture us about other religions when you clearly know absolutely nothing about them. You have made blatantly false statements about both Christianity and Wicca, and you then outright condemned Christianity.

If you would like to continue to discuss, I would welcome you to do so, but try to understand that other people read this forum, and they may spread the misinformation you post.

[Doctrix]

Hi kids! *is confused by all the new usernames*

Kalyani Srijoi

I'd especially like some feedback on the recent section on magic, since my knowledge of it is, of course, somewhat limited.

Though this question wasn't directed at me and I can't really tell you much, I would like to suggest that calling Wiccan magic the same as Ceremonial may not be entirely accurate, although the historical roots are undeniable. Elders in outer courts often teach their students about the difference between "high" Ceremonial magic and "low" kitchen witch magic, and stress vaguely that Wiccan magic might be include either, both or middle ground depending upon the Coven. It is also suggested that if a Seeker is actually looking for hardcore Ceremonial Magic (i.e. Ordering demons around and all the bells and whistles that entails) they might be best served seeking elswhere. The only reason I post this is because I don't want a whole crapload of kids who get off on all the hoopla of Ceremonial Magic to go seeking for Wiccan covens and be disappointed. If you want CM, go join a CM group, folks!

Phoenixfire Lune Soleil

Chibikerichan

And out of curiousity, if Gardner said that the gods of Greece, Rome, and Egypt would be more powerful on their native soil, what would he think/have thought about the Lord and Lady of the Isles being worshipped and invoked in the United States? (Is he dead? Or am I imagining things?)

In various Witchcraft traditions (so I'm guessing it could extend to Wicca), there is the notion that Witch-gods are easier to contact in their native homeland, mainly because it is their regular "haunt", so to speak. It's not impossible to call them anywhere else, however, since the world is a whole, not lots of seperate bits divided... it's all interlinked in ways.

Whether it'd be more powerful or not, I'm not sure. Usually I only hear referance to the ease at which said gods are called upon, rather than the gods being more powerful. I suppose it could also be considered more powerful, since a lot in Craft traditions is based on the Land and connections to it... it's taught specifically in mine that before any magical working can or should be done in a place, one must first go out and familiarise themself with the Land and its Otherworldly inhabitants, out of courtesy and respect. And one must redo this action whenever moving to a new place, since there are spirits and powers that are unfamiliar with you there.
This in ways can and does extend to gods and deities themselves, particularly in Craft traditions. Entities embodied in the Land itself will always be felt stronger in its place of origin. Spirits and pale folk will usually be purely native to a local area... gods are usually more widespread, even on a global level sometimes (depends on the god in question), but it can't be denied that location can be a factor, even if only a mental one. I know I'd feel much more in tune invoking Dame Holda in Britain or Germanic places as opposed to, say, Australia. razz

I'd like to chime in on this with my own, unsolicited opinions (UPG), though I certainly don't speak for Gardner. I come at this notion from a backwards angle. Contacting the Gods of one location from another may not be a challenge due to the presence or absence of the Gods in question, but rather because of the Gods of the location in which you currently are. For example, I live on what was once Native American land. The Elders of my Tradition approached tribal elders to request their permission and the permission of their Gods for us to practice here. It is our belief that if we did not practice under the "blessing" of the Gods of this locale, things might be more difficult for us, and we might not survive here.

Cuchullain

THe title of High Priest is reserved for Third Degree Wiccans. You must be initiated to recieve it. THey do not hand it out for doing rituals.

Or Second Degree, depending upon Tradition, but the point of your post remains true.

[CuAnnan]

[Kudzu]

Hi kids! *is confused by all the new usernames*

Heh, I got bored of getting hassle over some American president who has nothing to do with my user name. And I caught myself thinking "name change, name change, ah how apt."

[Kudzu]

Or Second Degree, depending upon Tradition, but the point of your post remains true.

That I didn't know.
Thank you for being the bearer of today's new thing.

Kalyani Srijoi

Thank you, Reagun. Or do you prefer Cuchullain? Or Wing? Either way, very nicely done.

Wing, dearheart.

Kalyani Srijoi

I would welcome you to do so, but try to understand that other people read this forum, and they may spread the misinformation you post.

And that, HWIN, is why I am such a hardass.

[magonilia]

Wow this was a really good thread. You get a brownie *gives you a brownie*

[Phoenixfire Lune Soleil]

[Kudzu]

I'd like to chime in on this with my own, unsolicited opinions (UPG), though I certainly don't speak for Gardner. I come at this notion from a backwards angle. Contacting the Gods of one location from another may not be a challenge due to the presence or absence of the Gods in question, but rather because of the Gods of the location in which you currently are. For example, I live on what was once Native American land. The Elders of my Tradition approached tribal elders to request their permission and the permission of their Gods for us to practice here. It is our belief that if we did not practice under the "blessing" of the Gods of this locale, things might be more difficult for us, and we might not survive here.

Ah I hadn't thought of that o.O thank you, I'll make a note. Having never left English soil, I suppose I wouldn't have, since I have no experience calling non-native deities into other places razz

[Kalyani Srijoi]

[Kudzu]

I'd like to chime in on this with my own, unsolicited opinions (UPG), though I certainly don't speak for Gardner. I come at this notion from a backwards angle. Contacting the Gods of one location from another may not be a challenge due to the presence or absence of the Gods in question, but rather because of the Gods of the location in which you currently are. For example, I live on what was once Native American land. The Elders of my Tradition approached tribal elders to request their permission and the permission of their Gods for us to practice here. It is our belief that if we did not practice under the "blessing" of the Gods of this locale, things might be more difficult for us, and we might not survive here.

An excellent insight. Thanks, Kudzu!

I'll update the first post with this question/answer soon.

[Kittensrock16]

so basically, wiccanism *sp?* is like believing in witchcraft?
sorry i didnt read the whole thing. i have a very small attention span xp

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Kittensrock16

so basically, wiccanism *sp?* is like believing in witchcraft?
sorry i didnt read the whole thing. i have a very small attention span xp

It's called Wicca, and while witchcraft is a part of it, it is not all of it. Furthermore, not all witches are Wiccan.