Wiccan FAQ - ?????? PROFIT

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STEP 1: CALL YOURSELF WICCAN	11.7%	[ 259 ]
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Total Votes:			[ 2215 ]

[Gavriel00]

blindfaith^_^

Gavriel00

Shamanism does not really applt to Mongol practices, those are Mongol nomads, MAYBE.

Mongolia, on a whole is Vajrayana Buddhist.

Metta,
Sherab heart

Could you site this please?

Well, sure.

http://mongoluls.net/shashin/buddhmongol.shtml
http://www.tibet-foundation.org/aid/bim/index.php
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhistworld/mongol-txt.htm

And here is a blog to an American Vajrayana monk, staying in Mongolia: http://danzanravjaa.typepad.com/my_weblog/

Also, I happen to practice Vajrayana myself, and have met people from around that region.

Also of note, is that Tibet's Shamanism called Bon, was put under strict control by Buddhists when it was no longer the majority religion in the 1000s AD.

Metta,
Sherab heart

[ShadowSharrow]

Odd Decision

jaden kendam

I had no idea that the Egyptian priests were called Shamans or they they practiced Shamanism.

Just to clarify some of this up...
Egyptian Priests were known back then as, Egyptian Priests. Only thing thats changed is the language we say it in. Saying it in any other language doesn't do s**t. They were uptight proud assholes selected by the Pharoah who passed their positions onto their kids while robbing the public of the food so they could get enough will power to go up to the Pharoah and say, "the entrails of the crocodile say you should kill 84297 babies." Basicly, Egyptian Priests had nothing to do whatsoever with any form of, "Shamanism." It was based purely off of political opinion of who would be the best dude to guess at what the gods wanted and to create a theoligical support for the government to justify the Pharoah's... brutal tendencies.

Sum Rtikle I uuzed.

Yes at the end the priests had for too much politcal power,
such to the extent they paired of the the Gods in a manner they aproved of
and tried to eliminate some gods all totherer removing the name from
tablet and temple; but that was not always the case.

The egyptian priest/ess never served the egyptian people they were ment to serve thier gods and which they did before it went to thier heads.

[Marshal67]

Cuchullain

Marshal67

@Cuchullain: You say go back to church as if it is a bad thing wink

No Marshal, that's just the way you're hearing it.
I have the utmost respect for Christianity.
I'm stating that she's using Wicca as an identity crutch and that, in the long run, she'll be much happier not living a lie.
Since most of the people of this ilk are dissenchanted Christians, I'm just playing it safe.

No worries. I agree with you. I wander why is it Christianity turn people into fluffies the way it does.

[Duncan_the_Soulknight]

@ Cuchullain: Well, considering the comic strip you used for your sig says that you won't take any s**t, I'm going to assume you don't expect me to take yours either.

1) I was asking, not stating. You chould try to not take stuff out of context. Additionally, the fact that you are calling it Norse only proves your ignorance in the matter.

2) When talking about Vikings, I, just like 95 % of the worlds population, am not referring to a people, but a culture. I know the difference pretty darn well.

3) I never claimed to be an expert. I claimed to have knowledge a few notches above average. I still do. You are probably more of a hypocrite then I am, since I at least admit it.

4) The fact that you found something dosen't change the fact that I didn't. Mind linking?

@ Thaedydal: Thank you. It was a few years since I last checked up on it, and even tough I still don't quite rember it, that does remind me of a book I read. If I find it in the library, I'll post the name, since I'm not sure I remember it correctly.

@ Deoridhe: I know that the Sami are different from them. That's why I was asking. I know quite a lot of Sami in person, and one of my teachers is one. Still, the difference isn't quite as large between a nojd and a sedhir as they are made out to be from what I see. Then again, that is merely my opinion.

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Duncan_the_Soulknight

@ Cuchullain: Well, considering the comic strip you used for your sig says that you won't take any s**t, I'm going to assume you don't expect me to take yours either.

I made Cuchullain's Black Flag. I don't take any either. You have some things to answer for.

Quote:

1) I was asking, not stating. You chould try to not take stuff out of context.

Please get a better grasp of semantics. You should know as well as the rest of us the semantic potential in the phrase "I believe you mean X". Oh, and there wasn't a question mark in your statement. Provide context if you're afraid of being taken out of context.

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Additionally, the fact that you are calling it Norse only proves your ignorance in the matter.

Do show how using the descriptor Norse shows any degree of ignorance.

Quote:

2) When talking about Vikings, I, just like 95 % of the worlds population, am not referring to a people, but a culture. I know the difference pretty darn well.

Really? Your appeal to popularity says otherwise. Vikings were a subset of the Norse culture. You might as well call "sailors" a culture, or if you really want to raise the ire of the educated pagans here, you could claim that the Druids were a culture unto themselves.

Quote:

Then again, that is merely my opinion.

Opinion without backing is mental masturbation.

[xStephanx]

I have a question!

In Raymond Buckland's book 'The Tree: Anlgo-Saxon Witchcraft' (I have an original copy before the reprint, go me), he claims to have changed dieties from the Lord and Lady as such to Anglo-Saxon deities (namely Woden and Freo, or Freya in the Norse).

Obviously by the FAQ's definition this makes the tradition founded in this book (Seax-Wica) invalid as Wicca. However, here's a hypothetical question - if Gerald Gardener had declared this tradition to be Wicca, would that then make it Wicca, or is Gardener's say-so not enough? (I believe Buckland did meet Gardener, and was initiated into his tradition, however I can only cite circumstancial evidence of times Buckland made this claim).

[Henry Dorsett Case]

xStephanx

However, here's a hypothetical question - if Gerald Gardener had declared this tradition to be Wicca, would that then make it Wicca, or is Gardener's say-so not enough?

It would have to be more than just "It's Wicca" for it to make much sense; since the religion is known as the Fertility Cult of the Lord and Lady of the Isles, for it to involve deities that were not the Lord and Lady of the Isles would seem to require substantial explanation (other than the "trivial case" of "they're all the same" soft polytheism). Mind you, that's simply my opinion based on the facts as they have been presented to me up to this point. Even the founder or charter contributor to a religion can go semi-Fluffy - just look at the Farrars.

[Duncan_the_Soulknight]

Henry Dorsett Case

Duncan_the_Soulknight

@ Cuchullain: Well, considering the comic strip you used for your sig says that you won't take any s**t, I'm going to assume you don't expect me to take yours either.

I made Cuchullain's Black Flag. I don't take any either. You have some things to answer for.

Quote:

1) I was asking, not stating. You chould try to not take stuff out of context.

Please get a better grasp of semantics. You should know as well as the rest of us the semantic potential in the phrase "I believe you mean X". Oh, and there wasn't a question mark in your statement. Provide context if you're afraid of being taken out of context.

Quote:

Additionally, the fact that you are calling it Norse only proves your ignorance in the matter.

Do show how using the descriptor Norse shows any degree of ignorance.

Quote:

2) When talking about Vikings, I, just like 95 % of the worlds population, am not referring to a people, but a culture. I know the difference pretty darn well.

Really? Your appeal to popularity says otherwise. Vikings were a subset of the Norse culture. You might as well call "sailors" a culture, or if you really want to raise the ire of the educated pagans here, you could claim that the Druids were a culture unto themselves.

Quote:

Then again, that is merely my opinion.

Opinion without backing is mental masturbation.

I didn't say anything negative about the comic strip, I just made a note on it.

When I was talking about context, I was referring how he isolated a part of what I said without taking into consideration what I was following. But fine, I might have been mistaken on that part.

And it is ignorant to call it Norse, just as it would be ignorant if I called all witches for Wiccans.

The reason 95 % of the worlds polulation refers to it as a culture is simple. It was a culture. Not a people. A people implies that there is a structure and organisation behind, while culture merely refers to things such as traditions and religion in common, as well as way of life. The vikings lived in a certain way, according to their culture, but they were too spread out to have a ruler more than every village on their own. Granted, at times these villages came together and such, but they didn't have a ruler. But of course, if you want to see that as a people, then fine by me. The main reason I call it a culture is because every single man joined in. Unless you died in battle, you were not allowed to Valhalla. Dying of age was the worst fate they could imagine. And thus they went on journeys, seeking not only trade and at times blood, but also their own deaths. Since everyone was a part of it (except the women and children), I say it's safe to claim it's a culture.

And yes, that is my opinion, and, as all opinions, it can't really be proven because it's relative. I can however give you the reasonons to why I think that Noids and Sedhi are similar.
1) Both involves singing and chanting. More specifically, jojk.
2) They both had very similar tasks

Thaedydal

The term seiðr is most commonly translated as "witchcraft," and is used to describe actions ranging from shamanic magic (such as spirit journeys, magical healing by removing "spirit missiles" such as elf-shot from the body, magical psychiatric treatment in the form of recovering lost portions of the soul-complex, etc.), to prophecy, channeling the gods or the gods' voices through a human agent, performing magic that affects weather or animal movements, as well as a wide range of malefic magic.

Yes, she did follow it with

Thaedydal

The single most characteristic element of seiðr, however, seems to be magic of a type which works by affecting the mind by illusion, madness, forgetfulness or other means.

but I was merely stating that I find them similar, not identical.

3) They for most part work alone, though from my understanding, they cooperate more commontly than the Sedir.

Of course, it can be argued that they are really not alike at all, and that is why I said it was my opinion.

Additionally, there has been studies on the healthy aspects of masturbating, but I won't discuss that here for seveal reasons, of which the greatest is that it's doubtful how they relate to mental masturbation.

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Duncan_the_Soulknight

And it is ignorant to call it Norse, just as it would be ignorant if I called all witches for Wiccans.

Argumentum ad assertion. Repeating your claim does not make it true - show why as required by evidentiary debate.

Quote:

The reason 95 % of the worlds polulation refers to it as a culture is simple. It was a culture. Not a people. A people implies that there is a structure and organisation behind, while culture merely refers to things such as traditions and religion in common, as well as way of life. The vikings lived in a certain way, according to their culture, but they were too spread out to have a ruler more than every village on their own. Granted, at times these villages came together and such, but they didn't have a ruler. But of course, if you want to see that as a people, then fine by me. The main reason I call it a culture is because every single man joined in. Unless you died in battle, you were not allowed to Valhalla. Dying of age was the worst fate they could imagine. And thus they went on journeys, seeking not only trade and at times blood, but also their own deaths. Since everyone was a part of it (except the women and children), I say it's safe to claim it's a culture.

The vikings were only the warriors, explorers, and traders of the Norse, not the entire people.

Quote:

And yes, that is my opinion, and, as all opinions, it can't really be proven because it's relative.

It can, however, be disproven when the facts on which you base your opinion are false.

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Quote:

The vikings were only the warriors, explorers, and traders of the Norse, not the entire people.

To add:

It's been put forward by a fair good number of Authority's that the Vikings were not even in contact with much of the other Germanic Tribes. That they were a War Cult.

[Kalyani Srijoi]

Thaedydal

Kalyani Srijoi

How does Hecate fit into the Maiden/Mother/Crone model? At what point can she be seen as a mother? I understand that she can be viewed as an old woman, or a young girl with three aspects, but I've never seen her depicted as a mother, and I've never heard of Greek midwives invoking her. Also, can you provide a source about women invoking her during the witch trials in Europe?

http://www.sibyllineorder.org/history/hist_hecate.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate

While Hecate is said to have had no children of her own she is the surrogate mother to many, first Persephone guiding and guarding on her journey were Demeter can not go and then for all children as they come into the light of this life.

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<snip for space>

Oh?

I always thought of her relationship with Persephone to be part of her role as a guide rather than her place as a mother. Further reading has shown that she was apparently more directly associated with the genetyllides - divine midwives, which I suppose should really not surprise me, considering Hecate's associations with Artemis. Then again, you might also look at this as part of her role as a guide, midwives not necessarily being mothers themselves and all.

In truth, I see Hecate's role concerning childbirth to be one very similar to Artemis' role. Note, for instance, that when Aeschylus refers to Hecate-Artemis, he prays for her to watch over the child-bed of women. Furthermore, when Artemis was called by the surname Genetyllis, she often recieved dogs as sacrifices, which was a common sacrifice for Hecate. Therefore, I'm not sure that I see Hecate herself as a mother goddess within the MMC context. You might see her as a maiden when associated with Artemis or when seen as the triplicate girl, or as a crone advisor to Persephone. But from what I've seen she's strangely absent from the actual motherhood part of motherhood, instead serving as the counselor to another woman's daughter and the associate of divine midwives and Artemis, a virgin who was prayed to by midwives.

Otherwise, though, I think I see where you're coming from - I will admit that I'm not so familiar with Hecate in her Roman incarnations, which seem to integrate her more with other goddesses in typical Roman fashion.

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Cuchullain has been initiated, though, for the record.

I would not expect anyone to out thier own initations to someone such as I who have just started posting here and I would consider it ill of anyone to out another's status irregardless of what tradtion BTW or otherwise.

If he who is named after the foster son of he who bore 'The Ocean' wished to impart such information that would be for him to do.

If Wing wishes this to be a secret, I would hope that he would feel comfortable telling me so. For the record, the information is available within a post in his journal that was, for a while, used as an infodump.

Wing - By all means, if you'd prefer I not mention this casually, I will stop with all apologies. Admittedly it was presumptuous of me to do so.

[Duncan_the_Soulknight]

Henry Dorsett Case

Duncan_the_Soulknight

And it is ignorant to call it Norse, just as it would be ignorant if I called all witches for Wiccans.

Argumentum ad assertion. Repeating your claim does not make it true - show why as required by evidentiary debate.

Quote:

The reason 95 % of the worlds polulation refers to it as a culture is simple. It was a culture. Not a people. A people implies that there is a structure and organisation behind, while culture merely refers to things such as traditions and religion in common, as well as way of life. The vikings lived in a certain way, according to their culture, but they were too spread out to have a ruler more than every village on their own. Granted, at times these villages came together and such, but they didn't have a ruler. But of course, if you want to see that as a people, then fine by me. The main reason I call it a culture is because every single man joined in. Unless you died in battle, you were not allowed to Valhalla. Dying of age was the worst fate they could imagine. And thus they went on journeys, seeking not only trade and at times blood, but also their own deaths. Since everyone was a part of it (except the women and children), I say it's safe to claim it's a culture.

The vikings were only the warriors, explorers, and traders of the Norse, not the entire people.

Quote:

And yes, that is my opinion, and, as all opinions, it can't really be proven because it's relative.

It can, however, be disproven when the facts on which you base your opinion are false.

Norse = from norway. While it is part of Scandinavia, it's not all of it. Just like wiccans are witches, but not all witches are wiccans. So either you just messed up your semantics, or you are just wrong.

And the entire people were indeed vikings. It's part of elementary school here to read about it. I'm quite sure that I'm right here. Sure, they did farm the land, but that wasn't all they did.

And I gave you the reasons on which I based my opinion. In addition

Henry Dorsett Case

Mind you, that's simply my opinion based on the facts as they have been presented to me up to this point.

So don't say I'm doing something wrong by stating my opinion when you are doing the same.

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Duncan_the_Soulknight

Norse = from norway.

Not necessarily; the word is not solely used to mean "from Norway", despite what the obsolete Dutch Noorsch meant. Cite your sources that show that "Norse" only refers to Norwegians.

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While it is part of Scandinavia, it's not all of it. Just like wiccans are witches, but not all witches are wiccans. So either you just messed up your semantics, or you are just wrong.

Step down from the high horse until you start citing your sources.

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And the entire people were indeed vikings. It's part of elementary school here to read about it.

It's part of elementary school here in the US to read about the Civil War. And the information gained therein is similarly oversimplified.

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I'm quite sure that I'm right here.

Argument from confidence.

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And I gave you the reasons on which I based my opinion. In addition

Henry Dorsett Case

Mind you, that's simply my opinion based on the facts as they have been presented to me up to this point.

So don't say I'm doing something wrong by stating my opinion when you are doing the same.

Don't equivocate further. I say you're wrong to spout your opinion as if it is sacrosanct without citing sources with which to verify your assertions. You asserted a claim as if it were fact, then backpedaled to "opinion" when challenged.

[Doctrix]

blindfaith^_^

Alright, silly question time. Is the concept of balance key in Wiccan beliefs?

Well, since you asked, and since you already characterized the question as "silly," I'll go ahead and answer it by explaining what's "silly" about it, with all due respect to you. Asking "key" concepts of an orthopraxic, experiential mystery religion is often a futile exercise. Not only are the basis of our opinions oathbound, but the experiential and practical nature of them means that they're utterly subjective and not something we can spell out to you in words. Is "balance" a key concept? Well, it hasn't shown up on my Coven's scrabble board, if that's what you mean. But I suspect that's not what you mean, so instead I'll be vague and say that it is my personal opinion that the concept of "balance" could be an oversimplification in more religions than just ours. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.