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Arcoon Effox
Russell's Teapot.
Empiricism starts the controversy in the notion that there is predictability in the universe and consistency enough to have faith in it. The denial of this notion pretty generally makes me the skeptic.


Real denial of it would have you dead by now.

Dapper Reveler

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Russell's Teapot.
Empiricism starts the controversy in the notion that there is predictability in the universe and consistency enough to have faith in it. The denial of this notion pretty generally makes me the skeptic.


Real denial of it would have you dead by now.
Well fine, I don't deny it in its entirety. But I leave some extra room for its predictability than what's considered normal in modernity.

Dedicated Reveler

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The Herald of War
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Russell's Teapot.
Empiricism starts the controversy in the notion that there is predictability in the universe and consistency enough to have faith in it. The denial of this notion pretty generally makes me the skeptic.


Real denial of it would have you dead by now.
Well fine, I don't deny it in its entirety. But I leave some extra room for its predictability than what's considered normal in modernity.


I'm pretty sure you pick and choose when convenient. For instance I'd bet you have not yet decided to walk out in traffic because of 'extra room', and continuously stick to not doing that. You sure haven't given a basis for your selectiveness either.

Dapper Reveler

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Russell's Teapot.
Empiricism starts the controversy in the notion that there is predictability in the universe and consistency enough to have faith in it. The denial of this notion pretty generally makes me the skeptic.


Real denial of it would have you dead by now.
Well fine, I don't deny it in its entirety. But I leave some extra room for its predictability than what's considered normal in modernity.


I'm pretty sure you pick and choose when convenient. For instance I'd bet you have not yet decided to walk out in traffic because of 'extra room', and continuously stick to not doing that. You sure haven't given a basis for your selectiveness either.
I'm pretty sure I've given something more similar to a basis earlier in the conversation, although I just don't like to give to much of my actual thoughts away. It's more important that I can think like this rather than if I actually do. Most modern science comes from old western philosophy- I'm not proposing that new thoughts are wrong just cause they can be right for different reasons.
About like 1/1000 Christians I know are like that.
Actually, the Anglican Church allows gay marriages.

Hygienic Smoker

There are extremists no matter where you go. Many of them I feel have either forgotten the point of the New Testament, or completely disregard its teachings.
The message we are supposed to be spreading is love, we should not teach that one is going to hell because they are wrong, but that we love them anyways through there faults and wrongdoings. We are ALL sinners under the Lords eyes, it is what you do to recognize those sins of man and of him. What are WE doing to make this world a better place fitting in his eyes?
I cannot say that I agree with gay marriage, nor abortion. Yet this gives me no place to tell any man or woman that they will spend and eternity in Hell. In the Bible Jesus tells us "Forgive, and you too will be forgiven". So what should this mean as a Christian? That we should turn a blind eye? No, but that we should tell them God still Loves them, no matter their action. I will say this however, that we must all hold ourselves responsible for sin because he will hold you responsible when the time comes, and if you do know his name Jesus Christ, then you should find it in your heart to repent from your sins.
God Emperor Baldur
Because they are not saved by Jesus. People are born with sin. That sin is rejecting the one and only God with MPD, The only way to take that sin away is to accept Jesus Christ so that he can take your sin away.
If jesus chose to look a certain way aren't those closer to his image more holy? lol

Mora Starseed's Husband

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With the recent and prominent debate between Bill Nye "The Science Guy" and Ken Ham (who, in case you don't know, is an incredibly vocal Christian and Creationist), I was curious about the Creation Museum and read an article on the blog 'Debunking Christianity' about John Loftus' trip there.

Loftus was curious about the place and dropped in, and actually toured the place for free:
John Loftus
...I got into the Creation Museum for free. I didn't expect it when I told Susan, the head cashier, that I was a skeptic. But she offered and I accepted. My ex-mother-in-law took her daughter and grandson to visit the museum about a year ago and loved it. So when she heard I was speaking at a Freethinkers group in Covington, Kentucky, she suggested I check it out. Since it wasn't that far out of my way home, I thought I would at least drive past it. That's all I initially thought I would do. Then I pulled into the parking lot. I meandered inside. I asked Susan how much it costs to get in. She told me $29.

I said, "Well, I don't know. I'm a skeptic."
Susan: "Are you open-minded?"
John: "Yes, sure."
Susan: "Well then, I'll give you my pass and a ticket to see the Planetarium presentation."
John: "Thanks."
While he was there, he took pics of the exhibits, and basically elaborates on the absurdities he witnessed therein, which he made his article about.

Well, just like he did when Bill Nye said that Creationist doctrine was bad for children (which is kinda what inspired the debate), Ham responded to Loftus' article with one of his own, entitled "The Chutzpah of Unethical Atheists - But We Actually Understand Why". (No, seriously, that's what it's called.) Throughout, Ham keeps insisting about how he's not mad about how Loftus wrote the article, (yet he had to write this lengthy response about it, in some passive-aggressive version of turning the other cheek) and also how 'stealing' (getting in for free) and deception (he claims that Loftus tricked Susan) can only be expected from atheists such as him. I'd like to bring attention to a few bits from Ham's response:
Ken Ham
"...because he is an atheist, this man is only acting consistently with his worldview. I understand his actions, though I certainly don’t condone them, for stealing is against all sorts of biblical teachings, including one of the Ten Commandments. But you see, he has no absolute standard by which he lives his life. So why is it even wrong in his secular worldview to misrepresent himself to us? He can justify being a cheater."

"If there is no God, how could an atheist ever say what is right or wrong? By what standard can he make that determination?"

"Secular atheistic humanism is a belief system about what we supposedly came from (nothing), what our purpose is in life (nothing), and what happens when we die (which again is nothing)."

"It also did not make me mad when I learned that as this atheist was leaving the museum, he left a business card with our guest services staff member—the one who had been so kind to him. The card had the words 'Debunking Christianity' on it along with his website address. Now he wanted her to know what he was really doing at the museum, as if he was gloating, 'Ha! I deceived you.' But this behavior was consistent with his atheism."

"...for any atheists reading this blog post, I urge them to consider this AiG article on why atheism is irrational."

"...Even before his visit, his atheistic, blind-faith religion had already biased what he would write about the Creation Museum!"

"We’ve had a number of instances of atheists not telling the truth (for them there is no such thing as “truth” anyway) in order to take advantage of us at the Creation Museum."
(Loftus responded to Ham's retaliatory reply here, and a little bit more here.)

Dapper Reveler

The Herald of War
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The Herald of War
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Arcoon Effox
Russell's Teapot.
Empiricism starts the controversy in the notion that there is predictability in the universe and consistency enough to have faith in it. The denial of this notion pretty generally makes me the skeptic.


Real denial of it would have you dead by now.
Well fine, I don't deny it in its entirety. But I leave some extra room for its predictability than what's considered normal in modernity.


I'm pretty sure you pick and choose when convenient. For instance I'd bet you have not yet decided to walk out in traffic because of 'extra room', and continuously stick to not doing that. You sure haven't given a basis for your selectiveness either.
In fact, I choose to have faith in it almost entirely.

Quotable Streaker

There could be several reasons. One of the strongest of them is that they genuinely believe that morality comes from God's teachings. They also may consider it pragmatic for maintaining church membership. If someone fears a group, they'll avoid that group and gravitate toward their own. Then there's the fact that the just world fallacy is a powerful thing. In most Christian denominations, only those who at the very least believe in the holy trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) may go to heaven. They assume that this also means they're the only ones who deserve to go to heaven, and therefore atheists must be amoral or immoral enough to be denied access. This isn't sound logic at all, but that's the way a lot of the thinking tends to go. I remember growing up and going to a church that would bring the idea that atheists were amoral from time to time and for a while I believed them. That is, until I actually got to know some atheists. They weren't any worse than the religious people I knew. In fact, some of them had stronger morals that made more sense.

I'm personally of the opinion that if you don't have morals and ethics of your own then it's more likely to be empathy you lack, not religion.
There are certain philosphical stances that claim morality cannot exist without god since morality is based on religion. No god= no religion = no morals. However, I believe there is no real "god" and the word god is just a place holder for the aethereal forces of the universe. God, Allah, etc. they are all place holders for the same thing and all religion is essentially a form of social control giving people a sense of belonging or reason, knowing that everything is part of "gods greater plan." Religious persons believe that their beliefs that they have learned through their religion are morally correct because it is the word of god and god is good. So if anyone contradicts their belief they would say that person is amoral for not believing in the word of god. However I think morals are subjective and no person or god can really deem something "good" or "bad." Morals are not real, conrete things, they are abstract ideas of what people should feel morally obligated to do.

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