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Lucky~9~Lives
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It's like the infinite improbability drive. push the button, ad ANYTHING could happen. that's the universe. the universe is an eternal random event that causes an infinite number of random events. under these circumstances, rolling a six-sided die may very well result in a seven, if you wait long enough, viewing every random event that happens while they happen. it will happen eventually.


You're aware the infinite improbability drive is fictional? Rolling a standard six-sided die can never result in a seven showing, by definition.



Depends on definition. If it were the case that any time the symbols "1" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" were present, they refer to the number that we might denote with "7," then one could roll nothing but seven.
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Lucky~9~Lives
--Real Pinkamena Pie--
It's like the infinite improbability drive. push the button, ad ANYTHING could happen. that's the universe. the universe is an eternal random event that causes an infinite number of random events. under these circumstances, rolling a six-sided die may very well result in a seven, if you wait long enough, viewing every random event that happens while they happen. it will happen eventually.


You're aware the infinite improbability drive is fictional? Rolling a standard six-sided die can never result in a seven showing, by definition.



Depends on definition. If it were the case that any time the symbols "1" "2" "3" "4" "5" "6" were present, they refer to the number that we might denote with "7," then one could roll nothing but seven.
Then it wouldn't be a standard 6-sided die as it would be a die with 7's on every side. To be a standard 6-sided die the symbols that represent the numbers one through six, whatever they may be, must be present on the die.
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--Real Pinkamena Pie--
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The big bang theory is flawed.


How so?

--Real Pinkamena Pie--
there is literally no way for anyone to ever know for sure, silly. we're just relying on numbers right now, yknow?


it is true that it is known for sure, but we do not know for sure any of science seeing as it is all an evolving model of nature. Currently, there is no reason to believe in a big crunch scenario other than someone wanting to despite all the evidence available that contradicts this. Going with the evidence, which is the only thing we have to go with in the first place, we observe the acceleration of the expansion [via type Ia supernovae survey], we observe that the universe is flat [via distance and angle measuring on the largest of scales possible], and we observe that the redshift is dependent upon distance such that new space is created at a current rate of roughly 73.8 km/s/Mpc.

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numbers can only go so far in something that transcends logic and reason and reality as we know it. If the universe continues to expand and create new things, there is a 100% chance that at some point something will be created that will destroy everything.


The issue is, we are discussing reality as we know it. The big bang is not some esoteric phenomena disconnected from or beyond what we observe, it is simply the first event we are capable of observing [at the present time]. The only oddity is that we cannot observe or state a cause to this phenomena, but that is not really necessary given that we are currently only explaining and observing its effects and making predictions based upon these observations.

Furthermore, the rate of mass generation is observed to be ridiculously low nor is it observed to create anything during the expansion process. What it is observed to do is to cool the universe and allow for different, lower energy, structures to exist. Thanks to thermodynamics, we can calculate the lifetimes of such complex structures in an expanding universe and see that they have a finite lifetime. So, saying that the probability for the creation of an object, for which the probability is entirely unknown at the current time, is 100% in a finite amount of time is entirely without basis. It is entirely unknown if such an object is possible in the first place.

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no matter what, we came from the void, and we will return to the void. even if there is a god, he and his realm will return, as well.


And this is based upon?


somebody watches way too much sci fi @ w @

isn't this about beliefs?

I believe in an ultimate void. all things come from the void, and all things will return. it's simple logic.

Reality and physics and all natural laws tell us that something being created from nothing is impossible. but it did. so reality has no basis in contemplating the beginning and end of the universe, with the exception of probability, probability is almost always relevant.

if things are created forever, eventually something unheard of will be created. there is a 100% chance, because it would literally have forever to do so. an unlimited amount of things that do not currently "exist" will be created.

in addition, there is a 100% chance that one of these things will be the end. something that throws the constant-creation cycle out of whack.


when there is an eternity of continuous random events, which is essentially what we're talking about, there is a 100% chance that everything will happen. everything. pigs will fly, humans will hatch from eggs, a man walking to the bus will spontaneously combust without any reason whatsoever, live through it, and then be crushed by a winged hippo-elephant that spawned at random directly above his head.

everything is possible. everything will happen, until nothing happens.
Quantum Physics tells us not only that something can be created out of nothing, but that it happens all the time.
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I presume nothing about the nature of the universe. There is nothing necessary in understanding, no virtue in wildly imagining.
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It was probably the breakdown of the previous dimension. Its a continues cycle of destruction and reforming. In a few 100 Zillion years or so they universe's matter will have probably broken down to where there are nothing but particles left and the process starts over with another big bang. Probably from the last atom being destroyed.
--Real Pinkamena Pie--
somebody watches way too much sci fi @ w @


Blame my astrophysics and cosmology coursework, not popular fiction that often gets cosmology wrong.

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isn't this about beliefs?


Yes, but putting forward beliefs and acting like they have some sort of backing is different than just putting forward a belief.

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I believe in an ultimate void. all things come from the void, and all things will return. it's simple logic.


It is not really simple logic when there is no reason to begin with such a basis except an inherent misunderstanding of what is being discussed.

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Reality and physics and all natural laws tell us that something being created from nothing is impossible. but it did. so reality has no basis in contemplating the beginning and end of the universe, with the exception of probability, probability is almost always relevant.


Except that you are making unfounded assumptions here. No where does the big bang theory, or any physical theory, state that something actually comes from nothing. There is no reason for the big bang theory to be required to produce something from nothing seeing as it describes the expansion of the universe after all the stuff existed, not where any of the stuff came from.

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if things are created forever, eventually something unheard of will be created. there is a 100% chance, because it would literally have forever to do so. an unlimited amount of things that do not currently "exist" will be created.


Except statistical mechanics tells us this is wrong.

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in addition, there is a 100% chance that one of these things will be the end. something that throws the constant-creation cycle out of whack.


Except there is no observational basis for a constant cycle.

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when there is an eternity of continuous random events, which is essentially what we're talking about, there is a 100% chance that everything will happen. everything. pigs will fly, humans will hatch from eggs, a man walking to the bus will spontaneously combust without any reason whatsoever, live through it, and then be crushed by a winged hippo-elephant that spawned at random directly above his head.

everything is possible. everything will happen, until nothing happens.


Except that there is not an infinite amount of time [well, there is, but the amount of time in which meaningful things can happen is finite]. By the laws of thermodynamics and statistical mechanics, which really all boil down to this infallible probability thing you are talking about, all large scale structure in the universe has a finite lifetime. And the reason for this is because creation from nothing does not happen. The universe's density is fixed; it is flat and without some source of new matter, that is not going to change.

--Real Pinkamena Pie--
Assuming that the universe is always expanding and creating things out of nothing, like you suggested.


Nothing is being created by the expansion of the universe. The expansion is caused by the amount of space between objects getting larger. The effects are not seen on the scales of the local supercluster because the gravitational binding between the galaxies is strong enough to overcome the expansion, but get outside of this region and the expansion is visible by the redshift of the hydrogen spectrum [I can't recall if it is absorption lines or emission lines, but given the amount of dust out there, I would probably go with absorption]. No where is new stuff being created. What is happening is that stuff that exists is getting carried farther away from each other.

Now, how can the density of the universe be fixed then? There are several topologies that allow for it, but I am not knowledgeable enough about them to really discuss it.
TrueLore
Quantum Physics tells us not only that something can be created out of nothing, but that it happens all the time.


This is a bit of a misrepresentation. It is not really being created from nothing, it is just that there is an infinite amount of stuff all the time and fluctuations can lead to particle excitations [I am assuming that you are talking about the "quantum foam" thing that gets in the way of a good theory of quantum gravity].
If I can't know what came first, then it shouldn't matter. If a higher authority do it, fine. If not, fine. Never was the type to fully trust anything.
The outskirts of our universe, in which all universes exist.
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天地双潰掀!我が気、挽回に満ちたり ! 死屍凄愴、此処に極まれり !

I like to view the universe as one of many expanding bubbles, floating in some sort of meta-verse, with anything from different physics than ours to almost no differences at all (e.g., like a coin toss is opposite of the ones in this one) Eventually these bubbles pop.

Tenchi Sokaigen! Taste my full power! Now die a pitiful death!
Disregarding whether or not The Big Bang was a thing that happened. I believe the Universe has just always been. There might have been something that caused galaxies and everything to form, but I believe that this place was always here.
i actually have a theory about the creation of the universe and what was here before. but i dont want to post it because this thread looks dead.. if its still active tomorrow, ill post it
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little bang
not all atheists believe in the big bang, OP
;P
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I'm not religious nor do I claim to believe in a God, in fact i'm Godless.


Okay, so you're an atheist, since that word means "without god", which is another way of saying "godless". You don't accept the Big Bang theory, so the question doesn't apply to you, and you've done nothing by quoting me.
I don't claim to be anything so i'm also not an atheist so don't label me.


You said you're godless, hence atheist. I didn't label you.
Sorry but calling me an atheist because I don't have a God is judging me and giving me a label.

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