Virtues As The Frame For Morality And Maturity

[The-Real-Youth]

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

[Blood_Testimony]

The-Real-Youth

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

I see where you're coming from, but in order for science to be more thahn x654 +547/ 5x-67x^2.... you need to interpret it from a worldview, I'd tell a kid that yes the frying pan burns at 250 degrees and the molecules are excited and energized, but don't touch it because that heat will destroy your skin and it will hurt. Sure it's beyond basic, but science without philosophy, without morality is worthless knowledge, but when you use that science to do things, to change and improve things, then it has purpose. Electronics is good, but without the wonder and excitement that came from startrek and the passion behind it, we wouldn't have cell phones, and you can't call your friends. smile does that gel with you?

[The Willow Of Darkness]

The-Real-Youth

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

Considering that he is making moral arguments, that is the only thing that he can do.

Furthermore, those morals are being argued as fact, as is any instance where there is a moral proposition.

[The-Real-Youth]

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

Considering that he is making moral arguments, that is the only thing that he can do.

Furthermore, those morals are being argued as fact, as is any instance where there is a moral proposition.

True, however, moral science is just one sided. You can't have moral fact without physical evidence.
Anyway, when i was stating virtue=opinion, thats what it is. When you base arguements ONLY in opinion, it's going to have some sort of fault to it.

[The Willow Of Darkness]

The-Real-Youth

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

Considering that he is making moral arguments, that is the only thing that he can do.

Furthermore, those morals are being argued as fact, as is any instance where there is a moral proposition.

True, however, moral science is just one sided. You can't have moral fact without physical evidence.
Anyway, when i was stating virtue=opinion, thats what it is. When you base arguements ONLY in opinion, it's going to have some sort of fault to it.

Well, you can use "facts" as might refer to them within a moral system to conclude certain things. For instance, if there was the moral truth that you should avoid lung cancer, then one could use the fact that smoking can cause it to conclude that one should not smoke; however, it is always the moral aspect that is the defining factor of that position. Without it, there would be no reason to consider smoking bad in the given instance. To say otherwise is to comment an error of ignoring the presence of the truth moral obligation in concluding what action should be taken.

On the contrary, there is never any evidence for a moral truth because they are axiomatic in nature. The definition of a moral truth, a truth of action that people are obligated to follow, is that it has no fault.

[The-Real-Youth]

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

Blood_Testimony

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Science deals with the physical world, with molecules, chemicals, with gravity etc, but is science the only kind of fact? Science can never explain metaphysical things like purpose or philosophy?

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

Considering that he is making moral arguments, that is the only thing that he can do.

Furthermore, those morals are being argued as fact, as is any instance where there is a moral proposition.

True, however, moral science is just one sided. You can't have moral fact without physical evidence.
Anyway, when i was stating virtue=opinion, thats what it is. When you base arguements ONLY in opinion, it's going to have some sort of fault to it.

Well, you can use "facts" as might refer to them within a moral system to conclude certain things. For instance, if there was the moral truth that you should avoid lung cancer, then one could use the fact that smoking can cause it to conclude that one should not smoke; however, it is always the moral aspect that is the defining factor of that position. Without it, there would be no reason to consider smoking bad in the given instance. To say otherwise is to comment an error of ignoring the presence of the truth moral obligation in concluding what action should be taken.

On the contrary, there is never any evidence for a moral truth because they are axiomatic in nature. The definition of a moral truth, a truth of action that people are obligated to follow, is that it has no fault.

What I meant by fault was if you base everything on your own moral values, it's going to get complicated by society around you. Like in another thread, the op stated we have to sterilize the people he finds wrong. It was a discussion about population control. Now how are those values based with scientific fact?

[The Willow Of Darkness]

The-Real-Youth

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

The Willow Of Darkness

The-Real-Youth

Of course there is the philosophical science, but I was stating that the op can't argue everying based on moral value, which he seems to do in every thread he's made...

Considering that he is making moral arguments, that is the only thing that he can do.

Furthermore, those morals are being argued as fact, as is any instance where there is a moral proposition.

True, however, moral science is just one sided. You can't have moral fact without physical evidence.
Anyway, when i was stating virtue=opinion, thats what it is. When you base arguements ONLY in opinion, it's going to have some sort of fault to it.

Well, you can use "facts" as might refer to them within a moral system to conclude certain things. For instance, if there was the moral truth that you should avoid lung cancer, then one could use the fact that smoking can cause it to conclude that one should not smoke; however, it is always the moral aspect that is the defining factor of that position. Without it, there would be no reason to consider smoking bad in the given instance. To say otherwise is to comment an error of ignoring the presence of the truth moral obligation in concluding what action should be taken.

On the contrary, there is never any evidence for a moral truth because they are axiomatic in nature. The definition of a moral truth, a truth of action that people are obligated to follow, is that it has no fault.

What I meant by fault was if you base everything on your own moral values, it's going to get complicated by society around you. Like in another thread, the op stated we have to sterilize the people he finds wrong. It was a discussion about population control. Now how are those values based with scientific fact?

Sure, that is called people disagreeing with what you feel is moral(still it is not as tricky as you think, at least on the whole, as many moral positions are sourced from the society around you).

It isn't "scientific fact." There is nothing that has been observed that allows the conclusion that people who disagree with a certain moral stance need to be sterilised should happen. This doesn't prevent it from being "fact" though, as there is truth when it has not been proven there is truth. The person arguing such a positioning is arguing that it is fact that the moral truth is that such people be sterilised.

[oHoN]

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Actually, virtue ethics is by far the most fact based and scientific perspective on morality. You should do some reading before you spout nonsense, cat lover.

[Yoshpet]

Wait, where's the science?

[The-Real-Youth]

oHoN

The-Real-Youth

Virtue=Opinion, not scientific fact. The only thing thats fact about virtue is that it is the opinion on each individuals idea of morality. You cant just base all your arguments on opinion, you need fact.

Actually, virtue ethics is by far the most fact based and scientific perspective on morality. You should do some reading before you spout nonsense, cat lover.

Cat lover? Is that the best insult you can cone up with? Virtue ethics have some science, but its mostly opinion. If people were not so focused on those ethics maybe we wouldnt be so discriminatory against one another.

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Yoshpet

Wait, where's the science?

"Each of the twenty-four character traits is defined behaviorally, with psychometric evidence demonstrating that it can be reliably measured. The book shows that "empirically minded humanists can measure character strengths and virtues in a rigorous scientific manner."
- Character Strengths and Virtues (book)

[Yoshpet]

Lucky~9~Lives

Yoshpet

Wait, where's the science?

"Each of the twenty-four character traits is defined behaviorally, with psychometric evidence demonstrating that it can be reliably measured. The book shows that "empirically minded humanists can measure character strengths and virtues in a rigorous scientific manner."
- Character Strengths and Virtues (book)

Oh, I have to buy the product first? Tricksy.

[The Willow Of Darkness]

Yoshpet

Lucky~9~Lives

Yoshpet

Wait, where's the science?

"Each of the twenty-four character traits is defined behaviorally, with psychometric evidence demonstrating that it can be reliably measured. The book shows that "empirically minded humanists can measure character strengths and virtues in a rigorous scientific manner."
- Character Strengths and Virtues (book)

Oh, I have to buy the product first? Tricksy.

And it still relies on assuming what is valuable, so it doesn't count as "scientific evidence" for what should happen.

[Yoshpet]

The Willow Of Darkness

And it still relies on assuming what is valuable, so it doesn't count as "scientific evidence" for what should happen.

Yeah from running over the list it just looks like a bunch of generic positive words. Some of which might even overlap in one way or another. Is the science part them just recording the frequency with which people identify with these traits?

[The Willow Of Darkness]

Yoshpet

The Willow Of Darkness

And it still relies on assuming what is valuable, so it doesn't count as "scientific evidence" for what should happen.

Yeah from running over the list it just looks like a bunch of generic positive words. Some of which might even overlap in one way or another. Is the science part them just recording the frequency with which people identify with these traits?

I suspect so, although, it will probably build a case for how they are positive in that they are beneficial to have good relationships and pleasant lives. That still involves a value though.