The origins and reasons of prayer.

[Brothern]

Most religions take part in some version of prayer. Prayer is an invocation or act that seeks to activate a rapport with a deity, an object of worship, or a spiritual entity through deliberate communication.

Where does this practice originate from? We know that many ancient peoples believed that the spoken word or actions would have a material effect upon the world. Many societies believed that if they chanted enough words, or burned enough pigeons, that this would cause change to actual events in the world. You'd see famines being averted or a sick child become cured, but obviously that is not and has never been the case.

No incantation or jazzy dance number, however skillful, will cure your Holy case of syphilis. However we still see Hindus throwing gold statues in rivers, Christians talking to themselves and socks&sandals tourists flipping coins into sacred fountains.

Why? Do you believe this practice still tied to its origins? Is there a biological explanation in humanity?

Do we trick ourselves into believing that God(s) has answered our prayers? E.G.,
1. Prayer answered. Praise God(s)!
2. Prayer not answered. God(s) has/have their own plan.

Is the meditative prayer state brought on by passion (hypnosis, Christian witnessing, Buddhist trances) too convincing to those who do it?

What are your thoughts?

[Xiam]

Brothern

Is the meditative prayer state brought on by passion (hypnosis, Christian witnessing, Buddhist trances) too convincing to those who do it?

Is it even technically prayer?

[Ask Jappleack]

its simple confirmation bias, you pray for something simple and something difficult for god to acheive. It takes a week, but you get the easy thing, a christmas present or something. Then, OH prayer works! Confirmation bias. They forgot the prayer that failed, and neglected how long it took as well, because each prayer is indefinite in the amount of time, they can only succeed unless you pray for something to not happen.

[Brothern]

Xiam

Brothern

Is the meditative prayer state brought on by passion (hypnosis, Christian witnessing, Buddhist trances) too convincing to those who do it?

Is it even technically prayer?

I'd say so. Those with high religiosity will often cite "religious experiences" they've had to back up their spiritual beliefs. Be those moments where they've experienced a sense of sudden calmness, excitement, a presence, an otherworldly possession, or etc. The majority of spiritual people don't get themselves to experience that type of psychological reaction in the normal course of a day. It usually occurs at times when they're doing their own form of worship and prayer, or are / were recently dwelling on their respective beliefs.

[Xiam]

Brothern

Xiam

Brothern

Is the meditative prayer state brought on by passion (hypnosis, Christian witnessing, Buddhist trances) too convincing to those who do it?

Is it even technically prayer?

I'd say so. Those with high religiosity will often cite "religious experiences" they've had to back up their spiritual beliefs. Be those moments where they've experienced a sense of sudden calmness, excitement, a presence, an otherworldly possession, or etc. The majority of spiritual people don't get themselves to experience that type of psychological reaction in the normal course of a day. It usually occurs at times when they're doing their own form of worship and prayer, or are / were recently dwelling on their respective beliefs.

Seems to be an altogether different thing from prayer though.

Also, many Buddhists meditate upon something as mundane as their breath, a candle, or nothingness to achieve the same effect. As prayer refers specifically to the invocation of a deity, this doesn't quite match up...

[The Manly Catholic]

Quote:

Where does this practice originate from? We know that many ancient peoples believed that the spoken word or actions would have a material effect upon the world. Many societies believed that if they chanted enough words, or burned enough pigeons, that this would cause change to actual events in the world. You'd see famines being averted or a sick child become cured, but obviously that is not and has never been the case.

The practice of Prayer is an internal dialogue with God. It comes from the soul which resides in each person. Every person is able to pray in one way or another, no matter how small a way. Prayer is personal. It is communion with the Holy Trinity. This practice originated with God.

But this statement you make here also seems to hold a bit of personal bias against Prayer which I am concerned of. Many catastrophes and healing have been attributed to true prayer in thousands of ways.

Quote:

No incantation or jazzy dance number, however skillful, will cure your Holy case of syphilis. However we still see Hindus throwing gold statues in rivers, Christians talking to themselves and socks&sandals tourists flipping coins into sacred fountains.

Maybe an incantation or a jazzy dance wont, but a Prayer may. Those aren't necessarily synonymous with Prayer. And then again, who are you to say this can't happen?

Quote:

Why? Do you believe this practice still tied to its origins? Is there a biological explanation in humanity?

It's attached to our human souls. We can never shed it.

Quote:

Do we trick ourselves into believing that God(s) has answered our prayers? E.G.,
1. Prayer answered. Praise God(s)!
2. Prayer not answered. God(s) has/have their own plan.

I don't think it has anything to do with Trickery.

Quote:

Is the meditative prayer state brought on by passion (hypnosis, Christian witnessing, Buddhist trances) too convincing to those who do it?

Meditative prayer is not a state. It's a form of Prayer. All these other things are are irrelevant to prayer.

[Reidmarr von Brugge]

At any rate, prayer, and or magic incantations (E.G: Galdr and Seidr are types of magical divination that I practice) are all UPG.

[Blood Valkyrie]

I stopped praying when I figured out it doesn't do jack smith for anything.
As for why so many people still pray, I think it depends on the person.

[MonickerPenis]

I do support talking to oneself.

Talk to yourself.

[Fermionic]

It is a form of expression of human aimlessness, our occasional impropriety to lead our own lives, and our inability to accept life as we find it.

[SparkyKid3000]

I think George Carlin said it best. If God has his own plan for you, then what is the point in trying to change his mind through prayer? He's suppose to know what's best for you right? It just seems odd to me. Although some people say prayer is like a conversation. I wonder what God says to them. neutral

[Brothern]

SparkyKid3000

I think George Carlin said it best. If God has his own plan for you, then what is the point in trying to change his mind through prayer? He's suppose to know what's best for you right? It just seems odd to me. Although some people say prayer is like a conversation. I wonder what God says to them. neutral

Yup. It's called intercessory prayer. Or, "asking god to intercede in your life." Even to many religious people who believe in all-knowing god(s) it makes absolutely no sense, specifically for Carlin's reasoning that you've cited.

Although there's plenty of conservative religious people who would be more than willing to call you a dirty, devil-worshiping heretic for thinking that about prayer! lol

[SparkyKid3000]

Brothern

SparkyKid3000

I think George Carlin said it best. If God has his own plan for you, then what is the point in trying to change his mind through prayer? He's suppose to know what's best for you right? It just seems odd to me. Although some people say prayer is like a conversation. I wonder what God says to them. neutral

Yup. It's called intercessory prayer. Or, "asking god to intercede in your life." Even to many religious people who believe in all-knowing god(s) it makes absolutely no sense, specifically for Carlin's reasoning that you've cited.

Although there's plenty of conservative religious people who would be more than willing to call you a dirty, devil-worshiping heretic for thinking that about prayer! lol

Yeah, my family is religious. When they pray it's usually to give thanks. However, my dad always says a prayer before a big road trip or vacation, asking for God to protect us and all that jazz. Of course, me being me, I wonder to myself, "What if we get in a car accident?"

The religious nuts can go get bitten by poisonous snakes for all I care. talk2hand

[Samadhi23]

Raginmund Brigir

At any rate, prayer, and or magic incantations (E.G: Galdr and Seidr are types of magical divination that I practice) are all UPG.

Useful terminology, thank you for bringing it to my attention. After reading your link, however, I do think that SPG would probably apply to quite a few more religious encounters than you are giving credit for.

[Samadhi23]

No-Mi-Jutsu-Yu

its simple confirmation bias, you pray for something simple and something difficult for god to acheive. It takes a week, but you get the easy thing, a christmas present or something. Then, OH prayer works! Confirmation bias. They forgot the prayer that failed, and neglected how long it took as well, because each prayer is indefinite in the amount of time, they can only succeed unless you pray for something to not happen.

Would you still claim confirmation bias for someone that has kept detailed notes for decades - comparing setting, state of mind, type of prayer, etc - in a deliberate effort to map what consistent correlations could exist between answered and unanswered prayers?


[Don't get me wrong. I fully think confirmation bias can be a part of it for many if not most people. Neither many nor most is all, however.]