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Sohisohi
Maybe I am misunderstanding you or maybe you are doing the same to me. I am offering a last chance at redemption.


And are completely un-self aware about how much your rhetoric, motives, and goals line up with those of the religionists you want to destroy.

Atheism: The new One True Church.

Or, maybe I do know and am simply hiding it. Actually, I believe I stated it somewhere here.
God!
There is no god but He,
the Living, the Everlasting.
Slumber seizes Him not, neither sleep;
to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth.
Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave?
He knows what lies before them and what is after them,
and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge
save such as He wills.
His Throne comprises the heavens and earth;
the preserving of them oppresses Him not;
He is the All-high, the All-glorious.
—The "Throne Verse", 2:255
Bruce Lee 545
God!
There is no god but He... —The "Throne Verse", 2:255


Ok... Sounds like a quote about ones humanity. Nice Poem, but I care little for the arts.
Allah bears witness that there is no god except He, and the Angels and the ones endowed with knowledge, upright with equity (bear witness). There is no god except He, The Ever-Mighty, The Ever-Wise.

Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.

Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.
Bruce Lee 545
Allah bears witness that there is no god except He, and the Angels and the ones endowed with knowledge, upright with equity (bear witness). There is no god except He, The Ever-Mighty, The Ever-Wise.
Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.
Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.

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Added

Great, scripture garbage.

A real man uses his own words. Come to me with your own words when you are ready.


Untill then, this link should help you.
Doofi3
One can teach a moral code to a child and then later, at an age where the child understands such things, tell them that they are free to choose their own moral code to follow. Also, I see nothing wrong with someone picking their moral "code" at or around the age of 18, whenever they've matured internally to being an adult (not the legal definition of adult, either). Would you let your 12 or 13 year old marry? Would you let her have sex freely with older boys? If the answer is no, then why would you say "do whatever you want morally, its your choice?" If the answer is yes then I pity your children.

What I'm saying is that its very possible to "enforce" a moral code that allows you to teach your children how to be functioning human beings in the current society without making them feel "trapped" or threatened with "eternal punishment."


You at least tried to be gender neutral... Oh wait... I will simply point this out now, since I believe it will benefit you. The reason we have consent laws is so the smaller underdeveloped reproductive organs aren't pounded apart by the larger, fully-developed, reproductive organs. (Also something about children being easy to manipulate) Secondly, allowing one to pick their own morals to fallow and allowing said person to fallow them... Is something wholly different. You seem to be mixing the two.

Doofi3
Sohisohi
3. It's more or less nitpicking, I understand that their are plenty of things wrong with education. It's more of a pet-peeve of mine. Imagine walking into a classroom. The things you are being though go against what you have know for your whole life. You feel both wonder and fear as the knowledge you hold may be wrong, the new and the old. You look over at the teacher speaking these words... They can relate... Something about that always bothered me.


And the child that grew up in a religious home and has atheism and Evolution rammed into his or her brain doesn't feel the same way? You are quite obviously a narcissistic ego-centrist. You're the same as the religious whack-jobs that blow themselves up because they feel their religion is the only way to go. Broaden your mind and try thinking of other people that aren't in your own situation you a**.


We are talking about the same thing, except you went off the edge for some reason. I will clarify since I think I might help. I am talking about my dislike for teachers of science who also happen to be theist. Something about a student saying "This goes against my beliefs" and the teacher also being able to say "This goes against my beliefs" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Doofi3
Sohisohi
4. Not everyone has an up-to-date bible.


You're honestly going to argue that? I grew up amongst Christians and in a Christian family, so pardon me but I have more of a grasp on just how much change has been made in the Christian dogma over the centuries. From the way you talk you have only an outsider's perspective, and things always look different from the outside.


I am being both realistic and arguing from experience.

Doofi3
Sohisohi
I'm a penguin.

This is the only comment I choose to dignify this statement with.

Inside joke, it starts with a feminist-witch and ends with me telling her to make a sandwich.

Doofi3
Sohisohi
5. Oh, I like conflict to much to agree with that. Not a bad way to live, but clearly not my way. (I submit this topic as evidence ^.^)


You have problems getting along with others don't you? This is exactly what I meant about teaching children morals at a young age. You're the kid that got "Doesn't play well with others" on his kindergarten report card. I've been there myself and I DID get a religious moral system shoved down my throat, but when I got older I realized how foolish my actions were and regretted them.


Getting along with people and wanting to argue with people do not go against each other. Although an extreme example, I point to the Nazi party. Declaring war with the world did not mean they killed everyone in sight.

Doofi3
Sohisohi
6. Agreed, I do not deny what I am. Still, their were quite a few Atheists early in this topic's creation who agreed that I was an a**. Somewhat debunks your statement, but still applies to me. Although, It couldn't hurt to be alot more intelligent.


At least you can admit it. I wasn't saying all atheists are like you, but a sadly large number of them are, at least in my personal experiences.

Oh, and I hope you realize you're exactly the same as the gnostic Christians and Muslims you're complaining about.


I know
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Sohisohi

You at least tried to be gender neutral... Oh wait... I will simply point this out now, since I believe it will benefit you. The reason we have consent laws is so the smaller underdeveloped reproductive organs aren't pounded apart by the larger, fully-developed, reproductive organs. (Also something about children being easy to manipulate) Secondly, allowing one to pick their own morals to fallow and allowing said person to fallow them... Is something wholly different. You seem to be mixing the two.

Not quite sure I understand your point at the end there.

Oh, and I could have easily substituted a 12-13 year old male instead of a female, the point still stands.

Sohisohi
We are talking about the same thing, except you went off the edge for some reason. I will clarify since I think I might help. I am talking about my dislike for teachers of science who also happen to be theist. Something about a student saying "This goes against my beliefs" and the teacher also being able to say "This goes against my beliefs" leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Something about not allowing a teacher to admit to being skeptical about something (for religious reasons or other) leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The efficacy of a teacher has always gone back to how they feel about what they're teaching whether they completely agree with it or completely disagree with it.

Sohisohi
I am being both realistic and arguing from experience.

Hm, that's interesting. I've never known someone to have an outdated bible other than the King James Version, which is actually fairly modern compared to the actual Bible/Septuagint and such.

Sohisohi
Doofi3
Sohisohi
I'm a penguin.

This is the only comment I choose to dignify this statement with.

Inside joke, it starts with a feminist-witch and ends with me telling her to make a sandwich.

I was hoping it was something like that, lol.

Sohisohi
Getting along with people and wanting to argue with people do not go against each other. Although an extreme example, I point to the Nazi party. Declaring war with the world did not mean they killed everyone in sight.

That's very true. Got sort of carried away with that one. I think I may have been having a bit of a bad day when I made those comments, my apologies.

Sohisohi
I know

I should hope so. Haha.

P.S. I clicked that link you posted above out of curiosity and then laughed my a** off. Good profile. Oh, and the Heartless symbols in the background are a good touch, love the Kingdom Hearts franchise.
My beliefs do not conform to any religion. They are based on my own experiences and my knowledge of the universe through physics. If you do not understand physics you will not be able to grasp my beliefs. Do you have a firm grasp of physics, Sohisohi, or should I just not even bother?
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Mei tsuki7
My beliefs do not conform to any religion. They are based on my own experiences and my knowledge of the universe through physics. If you do not understand physics you will not be able to grasp my beliefs. Do you have a firm grasp of physics, Sohisohi, or should I just not even bother?


While SohiSohi may or may not wish to take you up on your claim to the testability of your beliefs, i certainly would.

So first, let me ask what claim you are making regarding your beliefs in relevance to reality?

Also, what branch of physics are you claiming as a relevant process to your belief system and how does it relate?
stealthmongoose
Mei tsuki7
My beliefs do not conform to any religion. They are based on my own experiences and my knowledge of the universe through physics. If you do not understand physics you will not be able to grasp my beliefs. Do you have a firm grasp of physics, Sohisohi, or should I just not even bother?


While SohiSohi may or may not wish to take you up on your claim to the testability of your beliefs, i certainly would.

So first, let me ask what claim you are making regarding your beliefs in relevance to reality?

Also, what branch of physics are you claiming as a relevant process to your belief system and how does it relate?


Reality is subjective firstly. Meaning there are many forms of reality and not all of them are three dimensional. The way I see the world is not the same way you see it. And we directly effect the universe just by existing and observing.

Quantum physics and M-Theory are the two that are the main base for my beliefs.

Basically the number one belief I have is that god is a higher dimensional being. In reference to our three dimensional universe it is the three o's (Omnicient, omnipotent and omnipresent) because, due to being from a higher dimension, it can see everything, do anything and is everywhere. Not just what is going on now but always has gone on and always will go on. But, and here's the part most theists don't like, god is not those things in reference toit's own dimension. Just as we are not those three things in our dimension but if we looked at a two dimensional universe aka flatland, we would be.

That's just part one but I'll let you respond to it because I have to get off now. It's 2am.
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我が名は豪鬼、うぬの誠なる一撃 見せてみよ!

DISCLAIMER: I am not an expert on the Dharma, and have not been qualified to teach it. I'm just explaining some of what I've learned.

I don't really have a rational reason for what I believe, but the more I researched Mahayana Buddhism and more specifically Zen, something just clicked in my mind. I realized that there was something about it that just made sense to me. Whether or not it makes sense to another person is another story. I don't accept some of the more fantastic tales in the scriptures, considering what modern science has proven, but I do believe in Nirvana, Samsara, the Four Noble Truths, I try to follow the Five Precepts and the Noble Eightfold Path. Buddha taught that there is no creator but mind, meaning that our experiences and perceptions give us each our own unique worldview, that what appears as reality for one person may not appear the same to another. One of the keys to Nirvana is shattering these illusions to see the true reality. I personally think science is one of the best ways of doing that outside of meditation, Dharma, koan, the Five Precepts, and following the Middle Path.

Something I think is cool is that quantum physics has shown the mere act of observing an electron or some other subatomic particle affects what it's current state is; on a larger scale, it allows for the possibility of parallel worlds wherein one result is observed in the first but the opposite or some left-fielder is observed in the second, third, fourth, etc..

I like my religion and its values, but in the end the scientific method pays the bills. Science, bitches! It WORKS! xp

My name is Gouki, and I will show you the true strike.
Mei tsuki7
Reality is subjective firstly. Meaning there are many forms of reality and not all of them are three dimensional. The way I see the world is not the same way you see it. And we directly effect the universe just by existing and observing.

Quantum physics and M-Theory are the two that are the main base for my beliefs.


Ignoring M-theory [which really shouldn't be titled "theory" and is currently taking a beating with the LHC results coming up negative for supersymmetry and micro-black hole formation], and just going with the quantum physics bit, it would appear that you are using a misrepresentation of the Copenhagen interpretation. This is somewhat understandable as it is often phrased poorly: observation/measurement changes the wave function. The misuse comes in when observation and measurement are interpreted to mean that some conscious agency is required when this is simply not the case; the appropriate interaction with any sufficiently classical system will give the same results regardless of whether or not we are there to record results[so if a tree falls in the woods, it still makes a sound according to quantum mechanics].

Quote:
But, and here's the part most theists don't like, god is not those things in reference toit's own dimension. Just as we are not those three things in our dimension but if we looked at a two dimensional universe aka flatland, we would be.


But this does not hold out. We can produce effectively two dimensional systems [most modern electronics are effectively two dimensional and we would still be bound by the physics of the universe if they were truly two dimensional] and we cannot act as omnipotent beings in these systems. Nor would we be capable of observing everything in an infinitely large two dimensional system.

Anyways, maybe things will be clarified more in your next post. I will admit that this is from rather limited information.

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