[ Poll ] The Bible; Of God, Or Men?

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Total Votes: 36

[world inside]

Recently, I've noticed a few people saying a few things about the Bible.

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.
2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.
3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.
4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.

I'm sure there are countless other views on the Bible (Care to add to that list up there?), so what I am wondering is if anyone can give me logical reasoning as to why the Bible is or is not a credible source from which to base our faith or belief in a God.

--Please try to explain your reasoning or ideals, because I'm going to respond to every reply I receive and I'd like to be able to at least understand what you're saying.--

[Enchantingly Unexplained]

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.Of course it was written by men. Who else had pen & paper back then? It's not like it was zapped into existence. And if you really think that discredits a book, then you might as well burn all of them.

2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.I would say that the people that wrote the Bible had a profound understanding of life, while most of the people around them didn't. The Bible is an attempt to explain the mysteries of life through metaphorical means. Does it really matter if it actually happened or not? You're meant to catch the underlying message, not make a concrete structure of it in your head.

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.This is a very ignorant statement and doesn't really call to be responded to.

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.You cannot prove that there is a God. But people still believe it. It isn't because they're stupid or misguided. They simply have the ability to acknowledge that there is something greater than themselves, which is what it all boils down to. Either you hold on to yourself or you give yourself to God.

[world inside]

Enchantingly Unexplained

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.Of course it was written by men. Who else had pen & paper back then? It's not like it was zapped into existence. And if you really think that discredits a book, then you might as well burn all of them.

xD Nice point. For the record, no one had literal pen and paper back then, but I get what you're saying. (Just a little humor. :3) I think what is being said though, is that people use the Bible as a basis for belief and religion and pretty much everything that defines the purpose of life. How can so many people/religious groups use this book if it was written merely by men? Of course, I don't know what they are expecting really..

Enchantingly Unexplained

2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.I would say that the people that wrote the Bible had a profound understanding of life, while most of the people around them didn't. The Bible is an attempt to explain the mysteries of life through metaphorical means. Does it really matter if it actually happened or not? You're meant to catch the underlying message, not make a concrete structure of it in your head.

I agree, the writers of the Bible did have a great understanding of life. But you're saying that the Bible is metaphorical. How then can it be that people take its words literally in some cases? If it is simply metaphorical, we may as well base our beliefs on the Mother story book of nursery rhymes or Aesop's Fables. Those books have a lot of great lessons and metaphorical sayings too.

Also, the Bible is written as though the things in it really happened. As if it is the history of the beginning of The earth and humans. Why so if it were only meant to be taken as a metaphorical sort of fairy tale with underlying moral ideas?

Enchantingly Unexplained

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.This is a very ignorant statement and doesn't really call to be responded to.

If someone were to say that a person was, instead of stupid, misinformed or mislead, and they displayed the comments above, would your response be different?

Enchantingly Unexplained

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.You cannot prove that there is a God. But people still believe it. It isn't because they're stupid or misguided. They simply have the ability to acknowledge that there is something greater than themselves, which is what it all boils down to. Either you hold on to yourself or you give yourself to God.

Many people base their belief in a God solely on what the Bible says about him. They feel that it DOES prove that there is a God. They feel that the Bible is God's word to humankind. So to say that the Bible does not support the idea of a God is a curious thing to a person of that sort.

[Luz Melian]

I see the bible as a testimony of various people and their experience with God [and not only with God] through time.
I also believe that unless you're a priori biased against the possibility of the spiritual/supernatural there's no reason why to not believe these experiences.

Also we can believe that the texts we have nowadys are genuine; for although we don't have any of the originals, there is a huge amount of very old copies, much more than of other ancient literature, that biblical scientist can study and compare. The frequently used argument that a lot of the original texts was lost or changed with time is not based on truth. The texts had always been rewritten with carefulness and accuracy.

[Lokiogma]

world inside

Recently, I've noticed a few people saying a few things about the Bible.

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.

As has already been pointed out, so has every book you have ever read... If being created by man makes something un-credible, all moder science is also un-credible

world inside

2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.

Proof that is is fiction and not myth please? Fiction implies that it is intentionaly false.

Most of the bible has NOTHING to do with explaining any phenomenon and deals mostly with morals, ethics and guidance for peoples lives. A great deal of it is also just teh history of the people and poems.

world inside

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.

If you prove that being writen by man disproves the Bible and that it is FICTION and mostly primitive man trying to eplain things he didn't understand...

world inside

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.

It doesn't claim to.

world inside

I'm sure there are countless other views on the Bible (Care to add to that list up there?), so what I am wondering is if anyone can give me logical reasoning as to why the Bible is or is not a credible source from which to base our faith or belief in a God.

--Please try to explain your reasoning or ideals, because I'm going to respond to every reply I receive and I'd like to be able to at least understand what you're saying.--

I am Hindu, and am not familiar enough woth the Bible to coment on how one can base their faith on it...

[Vallus the Conqueror]

world inside

Recently, I've noticed a few people saying a few things about the Bible.

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.
2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.
3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.
4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.

I'm sure there are countless other views on the Bible (Care to add to that list up there?), so what I am wondering is if anyone can give me logical reasoning as to why the Bible is or is not a credible source from which to base our faith or belief in a God.

--Please try to explain your reasoning or ideals, because I'm going to respond to every reply I receive and I'd like to be able to at least understand what you're saying.--

I mean if you look at it that way then, the above stated reasons are all valid.

[ferret658]

world inside

Enchantingly Unexplained

1. It was written by men, and therefore is not credible.Of course it was written by men. Who else had pen & paper back then? It's not like it was zapped into existence. And if you really think that discredits a book, then you might as well burn all of them.

xD Nice point. For the record, no one had literal pen and paper back then, but I get what you're saying. (Just a little humor. :3) I think what is being said though, is that people use the Bible as a basis for belief and religion and pretty much everything that defines the purpose of life. How can so many people/religious groups use this book if it was written merely by men? Of course, I don't know what they are expecting really..

Every word in the Bible is God-breathed, meaning God was the one who dictated the message and man was the one who wrote it down.

Enchantingly Unexplained

2. Much of the Bible is Fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.I would say that the people that wrote the Bible had a profound understanding of life, while most of the people around them didn't. The Bible is an attempt to explain the mysteries of life through metaphorical means. Does it really matter if it actually happened or not? You're meant to catch the underlying message, not make a concrete structure of it in your head.

I agree, the writers of the Bible did have a great understanding of life. But you're saying that the Bible is metaphorical. How then can it be that people take its words literally in some cases? If it is simply metaphorical, we may as well base our beliefs on the Mother story book of nursery rhymes or Aesop's Fables. Those books have a lot of great lessons and metaphorical sayings too.

Also, the Bible is written as though the things in it really happened. As if it is the history of the beginning of The earth and humans. Why so if it were only meant to be taken as a metaphorical sort of fairy tale with underlying moral ideas?


I agree with Lokiogma that fiction is intentionally false. But where I disagree is that the Bible is literal and figurative; an instruction manual and a corrective tool. When the writers give descriptions of things, we have take it as figurative because they described what they saw to the best of their abilities, maybe not accurately or literally. when the Bible's writers wrote prophecies 500 years before the prophecy was fulfilled to the T, this we can take as literal. When the Bible says that something is wrong, then it is wrong. When the Bible says that a child must honor and respect their parents, and fathers are not supposed to antoagonize their children, then these situations must be corrected.

Enchantingly Unexplained

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.This is a very ignorant statement and doesn't really call to be responded to.

If someone were to say that a person was, instead of stupid, misinformed or mislead, and they displayed the comments above, would your response be different?
In my personal opinion, anyone who does not take the Bible's words to heart is a fool. There is truth in those words that no one can disprove if they would stop closing their eyes and ears and hearts to God.

Enchantingly Unexplained

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.You cannot prove that there is a God. But people still believe it. It isn't because they're stupid or misguided. They simply have the ability to acknowledge that there is something greater than themselves, which is what it all boils down to. Either you hold on to yourself or you give yourself to God.

Many people base their belief in a God solely on what the Bible says about him. They feel that it DOES prove that there is a God. They feel that the Bible is God's word to humankind. So to say that the Bible does not support the idea of a God is a curious thing to a person of that sort.

The Bible does prove there is a God. There are countless scriptures that God Himself says, "I am the LORD your God." There is one, definite way you can prove there is a God. But that is out of everyone's hands. When God returns, every single soul on this earth that has lived or is living will know that He is real. Other than God's return, there is conversion to prove the existence of God.
It's a good thing that people base their belief in God solely on what the Bible says of Him. But the Bible says to pursue a personal relationship with Him...So anyone reading the Bible that has already given their life to Jesus that is basing their belief in Him solely on the Bible and not their personal experience as well is in the wrong.

Am I making sense? I feel like I'm rambling...

[Kiumaru]

ferret658

I agree with Lokiogma that fiction is intentionally false. But where I disagree is that the Bible is literal and figurative; an instruction manual and a corrective tool. When the writers give descriptions of things, we have take it as figurative because they described what they saw to the best of their abilities, maybe not accurately or literally. when the Bible's writers wrote prophecies 500 years before the prophecy was fulfilled to the T, this we can take as literal. When the Bible says that something is wrong, then it is wrong. When the Bible says that a child must honor and respect their parents, and fathers are not supposed to antoagonize their children, then these situations must be corrected.

What about when the Bible contradicts itself on the rules and laws? Does that make both rules right?

ferret658

The Bible does prove there is a God. There are countless scriptures that God Himself says, "I am the LORD your God."

That's like saying that there's proof of Zeus and the Greek Gods because they interacted with the people of Ancient Greece when they needed them.

[sexana]

The Bible was written by men, yes, however, what they wrote down was given to them by God.

[Majnooni]

I have two issues with the Christian bible. One the one hand, it was compiled by men, who decided what was fit to be put in and what was left out. I cannot say whether or not those men were inspired by God to make the right decisions.

However, my main issue is translation. Christians seem to find it perfectly acceptable to translate and re-translate their holy text. The fact that each translation holds the bias of the translator, and that many common translations barely resemble the original writings doesn't seem to bother anyone, which is odd to me.

[JoSlifer]

Majnooni: Are you Muslim? I understand that Muslims don't believe the Qur'an is really the Qur'an unless it's recited in Arabic, and all other renditions are mere shadows of the original. Which makes sense, true, but it also makes it hard for anyone who doesn't know Arabic to truly get the Qur'an, and makes Islam a sub-universal religion. Don't think I'm bashing it, because I don't mean to, but if the Holy Scriptures can't be translated into the languages of all tongues and people...

As per the OP:
1. It was written by men, and therefore not credible.

The Bible was written by God, through men of God, for men. That is to say, sure it was Moses', Isaiah's, John's hand writing the words, but it was God telling them what to write. "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same" (Doctrine & Covenants 1:38, emphasis added).

2. Much of the Bible is fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.

How do they figure it's fictional? Examples?

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.

"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal" (Exodus 20:12-15); "...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew 22:39). God forbid that I do any of that!

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.

...Um, have you read the Bible? It's pretty explicit... "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:26-27, emphasis added); "And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16, emphasis added); "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me" (Isaiah 1:2, emphasis added); "And all flesh shall see the salvation of God" (Luke 3:6, emphasis added); "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3, emphasis added); "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful..." (1 Corinthians 10:13, emphasis added).

But you can choose to not believe the Bible. God loves you enough to give you agency, even to choose whether or not you believe He exists, and that the Bible is His word. "And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good" (2 Nephi 33:10).

[Kiumaru]

JoSlifer

Majnooni: Are you Muslim? I understand that Muslims don't believe the Qur'an is really the Qur'an unless it's recited in Arabic, and all other renditions are mere shadows of the original. Which makes sense, true, but it also makes it hard for anyone who doesn't know Arabic to truly get the Qur'an, and makes Islam a sub-universal religion. Don't think I'm bashing it, because I don't mean to, but if the Holy Scriptures can't be translated into the languages of all tongues and people...

As per the OP:
1. It was written by men, and therefore not credible.

The Bible was written by God, through men of God, for men. That is to say, sure it was Moses', Isaiah's, John's hand writing the words, but it was God telling them what to write. "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same" (Doctrine & Covenants 1:38, emphasis added).

You do realize that there is something called "Biblical Canon", right? Where whatever chapters of the bible are chosen to be a part of the official Bible that would be believed in by that certain church. Something else to note is that there are chapters with dubious authors or ones that are attributed to someone who may not have written it.

JoSlifer

2. Much of the Bible is fiction, where pre-modern men try to explain what they don't understand.

How do they figure it's fictional? Examples?

Well, for one, it seems that the miracles are highly unlikely as well as the fact that the Bible was based upon the limited knowledge of the metaphysics of the world. Most people during this time attempted to explain phenomena through the use of gods or goddesses. Who says that "God" isn't among them?

JoSlifer

3. Any who take the Bible's words to heart are simply stupid for the above stated reasons.

"Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal" (Exodus 20:12-15); "...Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" (Matthew 22:39). God forbid that I do any of that!

It would be most likely that you would do that without the Bible anyway. It's not as if you need religion in order to follow those basic principles. They're rather universal because of the idea of a social contract.

JoSlifer

4. The Bible does not prove that there is a God.

...Um, have you read the Bible? It's pretty explicit... "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:26-27, emphasis added); "And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16, emphasis added); "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the Lord hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me" (Isaiah 1:2, emphasis added); "And all flesh shall see the salvation of God" (Luke 3:6, emphasis added); "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3, emphasis added); "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful..." (1 Corinthians 10:13, emphasis added).

How does that prove anything outside of dogma? That's like saying that Moby d**k proves that there was a whale and a guy named Captain Ahab chasing after said whale simply from the book alone.

JoSlifer

But you can choose to not believe the Bible. God loves you enough to give you agency, even to choose whether or not you believe He exists, and that the Bible is His word. "And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good" (2 Nephi 33:10).

Well, you're certainly correct in that people can choose whether or not they want to believe in something. Something else to note is that if we are to take the idea of hell into consideration, then people are simply damned because of the place of their birth or unfortunate circumstances. Would a loving God do that?

[JoSlifer]

Kiumaru

Well, for one, it seems that the miracles are highly unlikely as well as the fact that the Bible was based upon the limited knowledge of the metaphysics of the world. Most people during this time attempted to explain phenomena through the use of gods or goddesses. Who says that "God" isn't among them?

Yep, the miracles are highly unlikely. That's what proves God is at work: It's Occam's razor, that the simplest explanation is right. "God created the heavens and the earth" is easier than "All the energy of the universe was compressed (somehow) into an infinitely small space that exploded (somehow) and quickly formed several gaseous areas from the resulting distribution of mass which compressed into the universe we know today."

Or, how about the miracles Jesus did, bringing blind men sight, lame men the ability to walk, and dead people life? What about the miracles that happen now? The fact that I'm alive to write this now is due to God's grace (the story is in "What has God done for you..." page 11).

Kiumaru

It would be most likely that you would do that without the Bible anyway.

No, I don't think I would. I don't know about you, but I'd probably be a disgrateful, thieving, sexual deviant who hates everybody, without the Bible.

Kiumaru

How does that prove anything outside of dogma? That's like saying that Moby d**k proves that there was a whale and a guy named Captain Ahab chasing after said whale simply from the book alone.

So you're saying Captain Ahab didn't chase after Moby d**k? As for what that proves... Isaiah said some things that got the Jews quite angry at him. If he was making it up, he would have said pleasing things, so they would love him. But since he was saying what the Lord wanted him to say, the people didn't like him much, because the truth hurts.

Kiumaru

Something else to note is that if we are to take the idea of hell into consideration, then people are simply damned because of the place of their birth or unfortunate circumstances. Would a loving God do that?

No, He wouldn't, and indeed, He hasn't. He's got a Plan of Salvation that guarantees against that. Long story short, when people die, they go either to Spirit Prison or Paradise. Only those who have been baptized and accepted Christ in life go to Paradise. Those in Paradise teach those in Prison the Gospel, and people on earth do baptisms for the dead in Prison, giving them the choice to accept the Gospel and un-damn them. If they choose to ignore it, though, that's still their choice.
After that comes the Resurrection, Judgement, and placement in one of the Kingdoms of Glory, which is a completely different bucket of water, which I could get in to if you wanted me to.

[Kiumaru]

JoSlifer

Yep, the miracles are highly unlikely. That's what proves God is at work: It's Occam's razor, that the simplest explanation is right. "God created the heavens and the earth" is easier than "All the energy of the universe was compressed (somehow) into an infinitely small space that exploded (somehow) and quickly formed several gaseous areas from the resulting distribution of mass which compressed into the universe we know today."

Or, how about the miracles Jesus did, bringing blind men sight, lame men the ability to walk, and dead people life? What about the miracles that happen now? The fact that I'm alive to write this now is due to God's grace (the story is in "What has God done for you..." page 11).

Wouldn't Occan's Razor simply suggest that said miracles simply didn't exist? As that would be the simplest explanation. Also, I don't believe you have the theory of the Big Bang quite right there... Also, Occam's Razor is simply a rule of thumb. It's not always true. Just because an explanation may be complicated doesn't mean that it's not true.

JoSlifer

No, I don't think I would. I don't know about you, but I'd probably be a disgrateful, thieving, sexual deviant who hates everybody, without the Bible.

Then you certainly need a better foundation for morality. Certainly, philosophy could help rather than Divine Command because of the problems of Divine Command Theory.

JoSlifer

So you're saying Captain Ahab didn't chase after Moby d**k? As for what that proves... Isaiah said some things that got the Jews quite angry at him. If he was making it up, he would have said pleasing things, so they would love him. But since he was saying what the Lord wanted him to say, the people didn't like him much, because the truth hurts.

Captain Ahab didn't exist. Moby d**k does not prove that Captain Ahab existed/exists in real life much like how simply quoting the Bible won't make God any realer than Zeus or Poseidon from Greek Mythology. Unless you believe Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, and et cetera exist as well.

JoSlifer

No, He wouldn't, and indeed, He hasn't. He's got a Plan of Salvation that guarantees against that. Long story short, when people die, they go either to Spirit Prison or Paradise. Only those who have been baptized and accepted Christ in life go to Paradise. Those in Paradise teach those in Prison the Gospel, and people on earth do baptisms for the dead in Prison, giving them the choice to accept the Gospel and un-damn them. If they choose to ignore it, though, that's still their choice.
After that comes the Resurrection, Judgement, and placement in one of the Kingdoms of Glory, which is a completely different bucket of water, which I could get in to if you wanted me to.

If the Bible is the literal word of God, where is the passage that states this? I was under the impression that people who did not believe in God were condemned even if they were born under another religion or in a different geographical location.

[JoSlifer]

Kiumaru

Wouldn't Occan's Razor simply suggest that said miracles simply didn't exist?

Except that they do.

Kiumaru

Then you certainly need a better foundation for morality. Certainly, philosophy could help rather than Divine Command because of the problems of Divine Command Theory.

The fact that I'm not a criminal mastermind/thief/rapist doesn't show that the Bible is a good foundation of morality? Also, I'm not familiar with the Divine Command Theory. Is that the concept that if God is omniscient, we don't actually have free will, as He knows what we will do before we do it? My take on that is that God knows everything we can do, and has prepared for the worst, hopes for the best, and gets what we give.

Kiumaru

Captain Ahab didn't exist. Moby d**k does not prove that Captain Ahab existed/exists in real life much like how simply quoting the Bible won't make God any realer than Zeus or Poseidon from Greek Mythology. Unless you believe Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, and et cetera exist as well.

Eh, I've never read Moby d**k, so I don't know. As for the existence of the others... "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord" (Exodus 12:12). It's conceivable that other gods existed, but the Lord God Omnipotent uberpwnt them, if I may use a fake word. If not, He executed judgment: They wanted His throne, and were cut down and destroyed. Or maybe they never existed, and God is simply showing His power over the idols the Egyptians created. I don't know, I wasn't there, as far as I can remember.

You're right, quoting the Bible won't make God any realer. But that doesn't matter: He's as real as He is, no matter what you or I think.

Kiumaru

If the Bible is the literal word of God, where is the passage that states this?

The Bible is the word of God, but not necessarily the complete word. Which statement would you like? I said a lot of things.

Kiumaru

I was under the impression that people who did not believe in God were condemned even if they were born under another religion or in a different geographical location.

You were under the wrong impression.