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I've been thinking about Matthew 23:37-39,

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me. And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate. For I tell you this, you will never see me again until you say, 'Blessings on the one who comes in the name of the LORD!' " (NLT - New Living Translation)

While thinking about this, I've also thought about the state the U.S. is in. We were once a Christian nation. People go around complaining "separation of church and state!" But they don't get it. The separation of church and state was originally meant for the government to not intervene in the church, not that the church couldn't have any say in any matters. I mean really look at what is happening to our country. I'm not just talking about Phil Robertson almost getting kicked off Duck Dynasty or how the new HGTV show got cancelled, I'm talking about things like kids can't even bring Bibles to schools. There's no more prayer in schools. Christian businesses are being forced to provide healthcare for abortions. Some places in the states, Sharia Law is being taken place. Christian wedding photographers are being forced to photograph for weddings they believe are not right. Americans try to persecute Christians in this country, but when it comes to people being open about their sinful lifestyles, they think of them as heroes. I fear our country is only going to get worse. I fear the freedom of religion will be gone in no time.

My point is, we took Christ out of our country a long time ago. It was a gradual thing, and still is, but it's becoming more and more rapid. The more we take Christ out, the more of a spiraling downfall our country is going. The thing is, what Jesus said to Jerusalem here, he says to all of us; whether you live in the states or in Japan or Brasil or anywhere in the world! "How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings..." He wants to protect us, he wants to love on us, but "...you wouldn't let me." We forget the free gift he gives us - the gift of himself, the gift of unconditional and everlasting love, has to be accepted, just like any other gift. When someone gives you a gift, you either accept it or you don't. You take it or you refuse it. Many of my cousins and friends either are or are becoming mothers, and I'm sure they want to do everything they can to protect their babies. They'll do anything for their babies - even die for them if it came down to it. Jesus didn't have to die. We often think, "He had to die in order to save us." Dude, He's GOD!! He could've saved us in any way he wanted! He could've chosen a way that was pain-free if he wanted! Or, he could've not saved us at all. He could've just abandoned us. He could've given-up on us. I mean, we often give up on him, why shouldn't he give up on us? But no, not only did he CHOOSE to not abandon us, not only did he CHOOSE to save us, he CHOSE to do it in a horrific, painful, and shameful way - to the point of death. Why? To show how much he loves us. But even after doing that for us, we still spit in his face. But no matter how much we spit in his face, whether you're a Christian or not, he still loves you. You can mock him all you want, he still loves you.

I look at our country and the direction it's going. People say, "It's progression!" It's not y'all, it's not. We're not progressing, we're going backwards! If we were progressing we would be bringing Christ back into our country, not the other way around. "And now, look, your house is abandoned and desolate." Desolate means complete emptiness. When we take out God, when he is not in our hearts, our hearts have complete emptiness. You know that empty feeling? Even I get that still! As one who struggles with an addiction I still get that empty feeling, even as a Christian; but I can tell you, that empty feeling, isn't like what it was before. I can't promise you that if you follow Christ, that empty feeling will go away right away. But that emptiness, it's meant for him to fill. Not alcohol, not sex/pornography, not drugs, not food, nothing can fill that emptiness except for Christ. It's like my addiction to eating. I absolutely love to eat. I'll eat and eat and eat, and even if I get full, no matter how stuffed I might feel (even to the point of feeling like I'm going to burst), I'm full for a little a bit, but I'm always hungry again. It's like that with anything you try to fill yourself with, you may feel complete for a little while, but then you're hungry for more. You're never truly satisfied. As cliche and perhaps even propaganda as it may sound, the truth is only Christ can fill you.

John 4:13,

Jesus replied, "Anyone who drinks this water will soon become thirsty again. But those who drink the water I give will never be thirsty again. It becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them, giving them eternal life." (NLT)

In this verse, Jesus is talking to a woman by a well. He is explaining to her that anyone who drinks from the water in the well, will be thirsty again. Anyone who tries to fill their hearts with worldly things will be thirsty again for more. But those who drink the water he gives - his words, his spirit, will never be thirsty again. It will fill them. He will complete them. When I think of "...becomes a fresh, bubbling spring within them...", as weird as it may seem, I think of almost a geyser. I think he fills someone so much, that it just bubbles up in them so much that the excitement and joy is so much they're ready to explode rainbows! They want to go tell everyone about how great he is and how much he loves them and how much they need him. But again, the free gift needs to be accepted. Will you accept the gift? Will you be filled? Or will you leave your hearts abandoned and empty? It's your choice, I hope you choose the right one - for your sake. God bless!
Snowbelle_White
If we were progressing we would be bringing Christ back into our country, not the other way around.


If we were bringing something back into our country, that would be reactionary, not progressive.

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Snowbelle_White
If we were progressing we would be bringing Christ back into our country, not the other way around.


If we were bringing something back into our country, that would be reactionary, not progressive.


Progress has to have a goal and the goal is to have good. If following Christ brings that about, then that is progress.

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Snowbelle_White
The separation of church and state was originally meant for the government to not intervene in the church, not that the church couldn't have any say in any matters.

Whose church?
Islam? Judaism? Hinduism? Mormonism? Catholicism? Jehova's Witnesses?
A simple majority?
Do you seriously think that Christianity will always be the majority?
Have you even read a book before? Christianity is in its twilight years. I'd say good riddance, only I'm not sure Islam is any better.

Snowbelle_White
Some places in the states, Sharia Law is being taken place.

What you are advocating is identical to Sharia Law.

Snowbelle_White
Americans try to persecute Christians in this country

The only reason you fear Christianity being the minority is because of how you "people" treat minorities.

Snowbelle_White
I fear the freedom of religion will be gone in no time.

"Freedom of religion" is not "freedom to legislate using Christianity as a template".
It is "freedom to believe what you will".
I'm not sure it's viable to claim that 𝝉 is "more important" than 𝛑, nor the other way around. They are the same number, really.

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CuAnnan
Snowbelle_White
The separation of church and state was originally meant for the government to not intervene in the church, not that the church couldn't have any say in any matters.

Whose church?
Islam? Judaism? Hinduism? Mormonism? Catholicism? Jehova's Witnesses?
A simple majority?
Do you seriously think that Christianity will always be the majority?
Have you even read a book before? Christianity is in its twilight years. I'd say good riddance, only I'm not sure Islam is any better.

Snowbelle_White
Some places in the states, Sharia Law is being taken place.

What you are advocating is identical to Sharia Law.

Snowbelle_White
Americans try to persecute Christians in this country

The only reason you fear Christianity being the minority is because of how you "people" treat minorities.

Snowbelle_White
I fear the freedom of religion will be gone in no time.

"Freedom of religion" is not "freedom to legislate using Christianity as a template".
It is "freedom to believe what you will".


First off, in the Treaty of Paris of 1783, in the beginning of it, it says, "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."
Look at transcript here
Throughout American history, government dollars were used in evangelizing to Native Americans. I'm saying this because it shows the government wasn't using today's definition of "separation of church and state."
I'm advocating that Christianity is the foundation of the country, I'm not advocating that everyone must be a Christian or suffer consequences.
You're not dealing with the data I've given, instead, you're psychoanalyzing me. Christianity was responsible for example for ending slavery. For an example, Bathilda the First - read the book "The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success" by Rodney Stark.
I agree with you though, freedom of religion is to believe what you will.

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Snowbelle_White


While thinking about this, I've also thought about the state the U.S. is in. We were once a Christian nation.


The U.S was never a Christian nation. The founding fathers were deists and wanted to keep government/politics and religion as separate as humanly possible.

Quote:
But they don't get it. The separation of church and state was originally meant for the government to not intervene in the church, not that the church couldn't have any say in any matters. I mean really look at what is happening to our country.


No, the establishment clause was made so that government did not endorse a particular religion. This meant not putting up the ten commandments in government buildings, or allowing the teaching of creationism in schools. But that has been thrown out the window.
Just read first before you type.



Quote:
I'm not just talking about Phil Robertson almost getting kicked off Duck Dynasty or how the new HGTV show got cancelled, I'm talking about things like kids can't even bring Bibles to schools. There's no more prayer in schools. Christian businesses are being forced to provide healthcare for abortions.


There should not be prayer in schools. Period. Bibles don't belong in schools either, unless they are private religious schools.

Also, providing healthcare for contraception is a basic right employees should have access to.


Quote:
Americans try to persecute Christians in this country, but when it comes to people being open about their sinful lifestyles, they think of them as heroes.


Where are christians being persecuted? Muslims are persecuted by Christians. Nobody is targeting Christians or calling them anti-American.

Quote:
I fear our country is only going to get worse. I fear the freedom of religion will be gone in no time.


You mean the freedom to impose Christianity upon others will be gone in no time.

Quote:
My point is, we took Christ out of our country a long time ago. It was a gradual thing, and still is, but it's becoming more and more rapid. The more we take Christ out, the more of a spiraling downfall our country is going.


Taking Christ out of our country has nothing to do with the state of affairs. Trying to shove him in every corner of the public sphere does.




Quote:
But no matter how much we spit in his face, whether you're a Christian or not, he still loves you. You can mock him all you want, he still loves you.


Pass.

Quote:
I look at our country and the direction it's going. People say, "It's progression!" It's not y'all, it's not. We're not progressing, we're going backwards! If we were progressing we would be bringing Christ back into our country, not the other way around... When we take out God, when he is not in our hearts, our hearts have complete emptiness.


Nope. Still not empty.
Christ won't make things better.

Quote:
I can't promise you that if you follow Christ, that empty feeling will go away right away. But that emptiness, it's meant for him to fill. Not alcohol, not sex/pornography, not drugs, not food, nothing can fill that emptiness except for Christ. It's like my addiction to eating. I absolutely love to eat. I'll eat and eat and eat, and even if I get full, no matter how stuffed I might feel (even to the point of feeling like I'm going to burst), I'm full for a little a bit, but I'm always hungry again. It's like that with anything you try to fill yourself with, you may feel complete for a little while, but then you're hungry for more. You're never truly satisfied. As cliche and perhaps even propaganda as it may sound, the truth is only Christ can fill you.


Try proselytising somewhere else.

Quote:
They want to go tell everyone about how great he is and how much he loves them and how much they need him. But again, the free gift needs to be accepted. Will you accept the gift? Will you be filled? Or will you leave your hearts abandoned and empty? It's your choice, I hope you choose the right one - for your sake. God bless!


I already made my choice. If he needs followers so much, why doesn't he just present himself to them? Why does he need obtuse and obfuscated texts? Why does he need people to speak in his stead and claim he says a myriad different things?
Fermionic
I'm not sure it's viable to claim that 𝝉 is "more important" than 𝛑, nor the other way around. They are the same number, really.


Like a return to the way things were is the same as progress?
xInfernalxDukex
There should not be prayer in schools. Period. Bibles don't belong in schools either, unless they are private religious schools.


Why not?

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xInfernalxDukex
There should not be prayer in schools. Period. Bibles don't belong in schools either, unless they are private religious schools.


Why not?


Because they simply do not belong there. Unless it is a world religion class, or a privately-funded religious school.

It'd be a violation of the Establishment Clause. Just like setting up a mural on a wall that clearly endorsed Christianity...or a cross outside the school. A public school.
xInfernalxDukex
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xInfernalxDukex
There should not be prayer in schools. Period. Bibles don't belong in schools either, unless they are private religious schools.


Why not?


Because they simply do not belong there. Unless it is a world religion class, or a privately-funded religious school.


I was thinking comparative literature.

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xInfernalxDukex
Lucky~9~Lives
xInfernalxDukex
There should not be prayer in schools. Period. Bibles don't belong in schools either, unless they are private religious schools.


Why not?


Because they simply do not belong there. Unless it is a world religion class, or a privately-funded religious school.


I was thinking comparative literature.


That, too.
Snowbelle_White
First off, in the Treaty of Paris of 1783, in the beginning of it, it says, "In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."


In regards to how great the British monarchy, which we were deposing at the time, was and how the deity in question came down and convinced the monarch to stop the war and grant the US independence. The additional problem arises that the Treaty of Paris was signed by a different government operating under the Articles of Confederation than the one that exists today under the Constitution.

Quote:
Throughout American history, government dollars were used in evangelizing to Native Americans. I'm saying this because it shows the government wasn't using today's definition of "separation of church and state."


Today's deifnition is in line with what Jefferson interpreted it to be. As for the claim about using money to evangelize to Native Americans, the refernce to God was forbidden from appearing until Congress made changes to the regulations restricting the phrases the treasury could place on money in 1864.

Quote:
I'm advocating that Christianity is the foundation of the country, I'm not advocating that everyone must be a Christian or suffer consequences.


The treaty of Tripoli, as ratified by most of the founding fathers, disagrees with you.

Quote:
You're not dealing with the data I've given, instead, you're psychoanalyzing me. Christianity was responsible for example for ending slavery. For an example, Bathilda the First - read the book "The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success" by Rodney Stark.


Christianity alone cannot be granted the sole cause for the ened of slavery when many Biblical arguments were made for its continuation during the time period. To do so is dishonest and white-washing the issue in order to present your personal theology in a better light.

Quote:
I agree with you though, freedom of religion is to believe what you will.


And yet you advocate reforms that directly conflict with freedom of religion.
Lucky~9~Lives
Fermionic
I'm not sure it's viable to claim that 𝝉 is "more important" than 𝛑, nor the other way around. They are the same number, really.


Like a return to the way things were is the same as progress?


No, there was no subtext.
xInfernalxDukex
Snowbelle_White


While thinking about this, I've also thought about the state the U.S. is in. We were once a Christian nation.


The U.S was never a Christian nation. The founding fathers were deists and wanted to keep government/politics and religion as separate as humanly possible.



That's a superficial understanding of the founding generation.

And yeah, it's founding generation, not founding fathers. To ignore the thousands of patriots who fought and died for a new country (or new confederation at the time) just because they didn't sign the Declaration (which was only a display for other countries, anyhow; they were already at war by the time of the Declaration and were effectively already working at separating themselves from Great Britain) is to demonstrate a supremely narrow view of history (and it doesn't surprise me that you decided to whine about Christ not doing things your way...You show a supremely presentist attitude, which, as a student of history, I find somewhat offensive).

Let's go down the list:

1. Ben Franklin was a self-described deist; no argument there
2. Thomas Jefferson never called himself a deist, but certainly was from his writings; again, no argument. Also, Thomas Jefferson was the worst person, but maybe that's beside the point for this part. razz
3. John Adams was probably a Unitarian. That's not quite a deist, but eh, I'll give you the point. It's close enough.
4. Patrick Henry was certainly a convinced Christian. Oops.
Patrick Henry
I hear it is said by the deists that I am one of their number; and indeed, that some good people think that I am no Christian. This thought gives me much more pain than the appellation of tory; because I think religion of infinitely higher importance than politics; and I find much cause to reproach myself that I have lived so long and given no decided proofs of my being a Christian. But, indeed, my dear child, this is a character I prize far above all this world has or can boast.

5. Robert Sherman was, by the estimation of Dr. Matthew Harris and Dr. Thomas Kidd, "the strongest evangelical Christian." A "steadfast supporter of Jonathan Edwards, Jr." (The Founding Fathers and the Debate Over Religion in Revolutionary America.)
6. William Livingston, governor of New Jersey and later signer of the Constitution, was an "ardent Presbyterian" (Harris, Kidd 177).
7. Sam Adams, like John, grew up in a Congregationalist household, but "essentially maintained that faith throughout his career" (Harris, Kidd 173).
8. George Washington, not a signer of the Declaration, but of course our first president and general extraordinaire, did not speak much on his personal faith and the debate continues to rage in historical circles as to what his true beliefs were.
9. Thomas Paine, not a member of any Constitutional Congress, was certainly anti-Christian.

So out of the nine examples above, 4 are certainly non-Christians, 4 certainly are, and 1 is kind of up in the air and I don't feel qualified or well-read enough to assert anything either way. So we see kind of an even split here, but whereas I've pretty much exhaustively listed the most influential deists/non-Christians, I have not even come close to list all the Revolutionary participants who were either dedicated Christians, at least marginal Christians, or, in fact, Jews (which is not the same thing as deism, particularly not in this time period which is pre-reform Judaism). The generalized statement that the founders "were deists" comes from a handful of vocal patriots but does not actually reflect the majority of Revolutionary America, and, in fact, does not reflect the majority of the Constitutional Congresses.

ETA to change the language a little just so as to not come off as personally insulting. Sorry bout that.

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