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Chieftain Twilight's avatar

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All_The_Worlds_a_Stage
Yes but only if your victory doesn't harm others.

The doctrine's slogan or whatever is pretty understandable. Passion is a symptom of life. People forget that, and the rest that follows, if it happens good for you. Peace is a lie though, is dicey. A lie as in, can't exist? A lie as in... hold on I'm getting to it... people lying to each other in order to achieve it? Dwelling upon the second interpretation is a problem, and thinking its the first is just lazy.

Food for thought: The ends never really justify the means. It didn't for the people who are on the wrong end, because they will never know any different than the despair and agony that has found them. Though we may be happy sometimes about a result stemming from causing harm we must never forget that fact. It's key keep it alive.


I see no point in trying to "harm none", as it were; for every action or decision there is a consequence, no matter what, and every choice can potentially hurt someone. so it's stupid to say that it's "wrong" or "bad" to hurt people. I would try not to hurt people in general, if only because it isn't prudent or practical. but there is no "right" or "wrong", nor is causing harm inherently bad.
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I don't think so. The lord gives me all the power I need.

the christian view of God and divinity strikes me as completely illogical.
heh. heheheh. I always find statements like that funny, personally.
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Chieftain Twilight
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I don't think so. The lord gives me all the power I need.

the christian view of God and divinity strikes me as completely illogical.
heh. heheheh. I always find statements like that funny, personally.

Like many religions with little to go on and evidence to suggest falsity, I believe the "power" comes from the placebo effect; that being they have power only because they believe they have power. The irony is that in religions such as Christianity the belief is that someone else has power and the followers have power through him, but the placebo effect holds true. So long as you understand the placebo effect religions such as Christianity can be logical to some extent.
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Lord Kilo Von Mortenson
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I don't think so. The lord gives me all the power I need.

the christian view of God and divinity strikes me as completely illogical.
heh. heheheh. I always find statements like that funny, personally.

Like many religions with little to go on and evidence to suggest falsity, I believe the "power" comes from the placebo effect; that being they have power only because they believe they have power. The irony is that in religions such as Christianity the belief is that someone else has power and the followers have power through him, but the placebo effect holds true. So long as you understand the placebo effect religions such as Christianity can be logical to some extent.


ehh... believing you have power doesn't give you power, realy... it might seem like it, until someone weilds power against you.

but that wasn't what I thought was illogical anyway. just... other things... mostly the way God is viewed in Christianity.
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Chieftain Twilight
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I don't think so. The lord gives me all the power I need.

the christian view of God and divinity strikes me as completely illogical.
heh. heheheh. I always find statements like that funny, personally.

Like many religions with little to go on and evidence to suggest falsity, I believe the "power" comes from the placebo effect; that being they have power only because they believe they have power. The irony is that in religions such as Christianity the belief is that someone else has power and the followers have power through him, but the placebo effect holds true. So long as you understand the placebo effect religions such as Christianity can be logical to some extent.


ehh... believing you have power doesn't give you power, realy... it might seem like it, until someone weilds power against you.

but that wasn't what I thought was illogical anyway. just... other things... mostly the way God is viewed in Christianity.

Believing you have power does give some. The belief that you are already powerful grants confidence. This can tie into the Sith code at that point. Confidence could lead to actions taken on passion. Passion leads to strength and so on. It isn't so much the belief itself that grants power, but the placebo effect can lead to it to some extent. At the very least they feel empowered and for some that is enough.

I know what you mean about that. I used to be a Christian, but I had to question the authenticity of the bible. It was written by God through man then translated by man and re-translated by man, but we're supposed to believe man never altered anything. Somewhere around here we have an old bible which claims black people should not be allowed on holy grounds. Elsewhere an older bible says no such thing. There are bibles which say nothing about homosexuals and, as everyone knows, quite a few that do. But man never added, changed, or removed anything. (╯°-°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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Chieftain Twilight
stealthmongoose
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I see myself adopting Kreia's stance on the force more than any other. Except than rather kill the mysteries of the universe, I would rather expose their secrets should they exist.


ehh... I tend to avoid looking too much into Darth Bane and Darth Kreia, because what I have learned comes across as terribly shortsighted to me. but ya know, I realy havn't learned enough about Kreia now that you mention it. don't quite know WHAT her views are. could you elaborate them, here?


There is very little to draw from, which is what may come across as short sighted. The fact is that it is very general, yet specific in places where it has the most influence. I tend to believe that was the focus of her message in the game. A hidden gnosis, the exposure of which could spell death for her greatest enemy: the Force.

Without getting too much into the mythos of it, the gist of it is that the dark side and light side of the force are a false dichotomy or false dilemma, and that by appealing to one sense of knowledge over the other, one becomes blind to their actual irrelevance to the universe.

Darth Traya's intent was to remove 'kill' the force, by rendering the galaxy deaf to it's ways.

One of her quotes likens the force to a poison, in which she uses it to kill her opponents and immunize herself.

Comparatively, I would observe the Force as a result of the universe and it's machinations. While I do agree that light and dark sides are false dilemmas, and see that small actions can have enormous impacts if they are applied at the right moments. I, like Darth Kreia, run into the dilemma of dealing with Hunger and Pain as allies and enemies, though i do not portray them as negatives to be discarded as unwanted apprentices but as 'necessary evils' to put it bluntly.

I find the Force to be a product of the universe, and as such while I would use it as a poison, i would immunize others from it rather than deafen the galaxy to it's ways. By exposing the nature of the force to those who do not know it's nature, I immunize the universe to the unnecessary mysteries surrounding it.


the problem with that way of thinking is that it relies on the assumption that the Force is seperrate from, disjoint even, from existence or beings or consciousness. that simply isn't true. all things, all concepts, even non-being are part of The Force.


I disagree. While the force flows through the universe and is created by the universe like kinetic energy, it does not survive absent of the universe. Without the medium of the material and the physical for the force to exude from, it is as conceptually sound as Motion existing without a single object to move.

This is not to say that the force is not a part of all things. I am merely stating that the force flows through us like motion does through objects, and as a result is created by the interaction of living beings within the universe, specifically force sensitive beings or places like Korriban or Coruscant.

My position isn't that the force is separate from the universe, my assertion is that the force is a product of the universe.


One's ability to understand and discover the mysteries of the force, reveal those mysteries to others, and immunize the galaxy from that mystery are not hinged upon the ideal that the force is separate or part of the universe. It is hinged upon the nature of the force, which can be investigated as proven by the various orders of Jedi and Sith who do so.
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stealthmongoose
Chieftain Twilight
stealthmongoose
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stealthmongoose
I see myself adopting Kreia's stance on the force more than any other. Except than rather kill the mysteries of the universe, I would rather expose their secrets should they exist.


ehh... I tend to avoid looking too much into Darth Bane and Darth Kreia, because what I have learned comes across as terribly shortsighted to me. but ya know, I realy havn't learned enough about Kreia now that you mention it. don't quite know WHAT her views are. could you elaborate them, here?


There is very little to draw from, which is what may come across as short sighted. The fact is that it is very general, yet specific in places where it has the most influence. I tend to believe that was the focus of her message in the game. A hidden gnosis, the exposure of which could spell death for her greatest enemy: the Force.

Without getting too much into the mythos of it, the gist of it is that the dark side and light side of the force are a false dichotomy or false dilemma, and that by appealing to one sense of knowledge over the other, one becomes blind to their actual irrelevance to the universe.

Darth Traya's intent was to remove 'kill' the force, by rendering the galaxy deaf to it's ways.

One of her quotes likens the force to a poison, in which she uses it to kill her opponents and immunize herself.

Comparatively, I would observe the Force as a result of the universe and it's machinations. While I do agree that light and dark sides are false dilemmas, and see that small actions can have enormous impacts if they are applied at the right moments. I, like Darth Kreia, run into the dilemma of dealing with Hunger and Pain as allies and enemies, though i do not portray them as negatives to be discarded as unwanted apprentices but as 'necessary evils' to put it bluntly.

I find the Force to be a product of the universe, and as such while I would use it as a poison, i would immunize others from it rather than deafen the galaxy to it's ways. By exposing the nature of the force to those who do not know it's nature, I immunize the universe to the unnecessary mysteries surrounding it.


the problem with that way of thinking is that it relies on the assumption that the Force is seperrate from, disjoint even, from existence or beings or consciousness. that simply isn't true. all things, all concepts, even non-being are part of The Force.


I disagree. While the force flows through the universe and is created by the universe like kinetic energy, it does not survive absent of the universe. Without the medium of the material and the physical for the force to exude from, it is as conceptually sound as Motion existing without a single object to move.

This is not to say that the force is not a part of all things. I am merely stating that the force flows through us like motion does through objects, and as a result is created by the interaction of living beings within the universe, specifically force sensitive beings or places like Korriban or Coruscant.

My position isn't that the force is separate from the universe, my assertion is that the force is a product of the universe.


One's ability to understand and discover the mysteries of the force, reveal those mysteries to others, and immunize the galaxy from that mystery are not hinged upon the ideal that the force is separate or part of the universe. It is hinged upon the nature of the force, which can be investigated as proven by the various orders of Jedi and Sith who do so.

I think the difference in belief occurs at just that point. Whether the Force is a product of the universe or the universe is a product of the Force. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? (Scientists have actually found the hen came before the egg due to a protein in the egg which only the hen can produce, but you know what I mean)

My belief is standard with one exception. The Force flows through all things, living and non-living. We know that much due to meditation and observation. My belief is that along with the Force existing within us we exist within the Force. Therefore the Force is not limited to our universe. I also believe in the idea of multiple universes and, depending on the theory, that would insist on there being Force outside our universe.

One multiverse theory is that all universes, including our own, exist within black holes. If this is the case then there is no void outside our universe because our universe exists within a universe.

Another theory is multiple big-bangs. The theory is that within one plane of existence numerous universes could have been made. We really have no way of knowing whether or not that is the case without leaving our universe and at the moment we can't even leave our solar system.
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Lord Kilo Von Mortenson
(Scientists have actually found the hen came before the egg due to a protein in the egg which only the hen can produce, but you know what I mean)

But there have been eggs before chickens. And chickens didn't simply just give live birth before laying eggs. And if you go far back enough, they were impossible to be recognized as chickens.

Therefore, egg came first. xp

Anyway, um... the way I see it is, the Force is the "soul" of the Universe. They are one and the same, in a manner of speaking. So they likely came about at the same time, perhaps even causing one another to exist.

But I guess that would have to come with further story of the origins of the universe, as well as what exactly the Force is.
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Xiam
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson
(Scientists have actually found the hen came before the egg due to a protein in the egg which only the hen can produce, but you know what I mean)

But there have been eggs before chickens. And chickens didn't simply just give live birth before laying eggs. And if you go far back enough, they were impossible to be recognized as chickens.

Therefore, egg came first. xp

Anyway, um... the way I see it is, the Force is the "soul" of the Universe. They are one and the same, in a manner of speaking. So they likely came about at the same time, perhaps even causing one another to exist.

But I guess that would have to come with further story of the origins of the universe, as well as what exactly the Force is.


One could say that the answer is that the non-chicken came before the egg even.

While considering an energy like the force to be one with matter is perhaps poetic, there is no doubt that the force and the universe are intertwined, as you posited.

While the origin of the universe remains to be observed so much as reasoned, there is much that we can reflect on when it comes to traditional teachings about the force.

I invite us to refocus our thoughts on the traditional ways as a contrast to the living force's possible future.

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Chieftain Twilight
Doofi3
Well, being a Jedi myself I would have to say I'm not much into Sith Realism. Its a perfectly respectable path for those drawn to it, however.


would you be willing to talk to us more about Jediism? smile

Certainly, what did you want to know about it?
Doofi3
Chieftain Twilight
Doofi3
Well, being a Jedi myself I would have to say I'm not much into Sith Realism. Its a perfectly respectable path for those drawn to it, however.


would you be willing to talk to us more about Jediism? smile

Certainly, what did you want to know about it?


How many experience orbs are required to upgrade your Force Lightning?
Agent Thrax's avatar

Smoker

Raspberry Flavored Milk
Quote:
There is no peace, there is only passion.

I think I understand everything else being said, but I don't get that.
I don't see how being passionate can take away from peace. Some are passionate about peace and equality and things that people associate with peace. Or is it something along the lines of passion = greed?
... I'm just not getting this.


Quote:
Darwinists

I also don't see how Darwinism is a path/faith or even a philosophy of some sort. Isn't it just a way of saying those that accept evolution?

You can't accept something that isn't being offered.
Agent Thrax's avatar

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Doofi3
Chieftain Twilight
Doofi3
Well, being a Jedi myself I would have to say I'm not much into Sith Realism. Its a perfectly respectable path for those drawn to it, however.


would you be willing to talk to us more about Jediism? smile

Certainly, what did you want to know about it?


How many experience orbs are required to upgrade your Force Lightning?

That's Fable, dude.
Qyp's avatar

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Got a light saber?
Agent Thrax
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Doofi3
Chieftain Twilight
Doofi3
Well, being a Jedi myself I would have to say I'm not much into Sith Realism. Its a perfectly respectable path for those drawn to it, however.


would you be willing to talk to us more about Jediism? smile

Certainly, what did you want to know about it?


How many experience orbs are required to upgrade your Force Lightning?

That's Fable, dude.


I don't waste my time in such a manner.

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