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pretty much, yeh. it's all about self-empowerment and motivation. the one difference between a Sith and a Satanist is that Sith believe in the Force, and Satanists are materialists. everything else is, as you said, completely redundant.




The code doesn't really define The Force. Outside Star Wars, and based on the rest of the code, I assumed (clearly stupidly) that it was just passion or motivation. The bit that gave you power - which seemed to be passion.

So what would The Force be then?
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Chieftain Twilight


Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through Victory my bonds are broken.
The Force shall set me free.

there is also Revanite Sith Realism, which is the belief in the teachings of Revan/Darth Revan; that The Force is greater than Dark Side and Light Side, and always seeks balance. in many ways, it is a combination of Taoism and Egoism, with the Sith Code applied to it (and sometimes also Chaos Magic philosophy).

I myself am a Revanite Sith Realist. anyone else want to represent?

I respect Master Revan, his is perhaps a view I can say I embrace to a great extent, however, I take the Jedi Code very much to heart (pre-Master Skywalker's heinous reworking)

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

While yes Sithism inspires the value of the-power-of-the-will and may even act as a mantra for empowerment, I myself, as I grow older (and calmer) seek peace rather than power. Passion in itself is not evil, it is in the heart and minds of the young and inexperienced that it wreaks havoc. To all a time, a time for all. As I would love dueling with you, I enjoy conversing with you.
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Chieftain Twilight
pretty much, yeh. it's all about self-empowerment and motivation. the one difference between a Sith and a Satanist is that Sith believe in the Force, and Satanists are materialists. everything else is, as you said, completely redundant.




The code doesn't really define The Force. Outside Star Wars, and based on the rest of the code, I assumed (clearly stupidly) that it was just passion or motivation. The bit that gave you power - which seemed to be passion.

So what would The Force be then?


The Force is a point of debate even within the Star Wars universe. there are various views of it. I can link you to the Wookiepedia page on it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force

it should also be noted that those with a logical mind are not going to think that we can pull of the feats of magic and psychic power depicted in the films, but that plenty of Sith Realists sadly think that they can. iii-_- it's a bit embaressing for me to admit that I'm Sith given this reality. so I hope you understand if I was reluctant to speak much at first about my belief in The Force.

I can also give you a quick summation of the various known views of the Force.

Living Force: Living Force proponents claim that The Force is a sentient entity, existing within and throughout all existing things, and binds them together. it has a Light Side and a Dark Side, and the latter can be very corrupting. Living Force Sith tend to think that they can get around this corruption.

Unifying Force: believers of the Unifying Force claim that the Force has no Light or Dark side, and that everything is connected by The Force. instead, Light and Dark are in in everyone, and what matters is how and why they perform any action -- not whether the action itself is a Dark or Light one.

Potentium: this belief is that The Force is inherently good, and that evil resides within the individual. as long as someone was doing something with good intention, especially if they followed the ways of the Jedi Order, they were safe from the Dark Side.

The Way of The Dark: this belief is that The Force is an extension of The Dark, and that it's inherently destructive or meant for destruction.

-- The Dark: this is here because it is related to the above Force Tradition. followers of The Dark are nihilists to the extreme. they believe that the Will of The Universe is the destruction of all things. they reject even the idea of The Force (with the exception of the sect who follow the Way of The Dark, who combine the two ideas into a weird belief system). only Death and Endings are truths to followers of The Dark. nothing lasts forever, and all is meant to fade; ultimately forever.

Insidious Force: the belief that The Force is an indifferent deity, uncaring of those who die or use it's power, as long as Balance is achieved. Followers of the Insidious Force generally believe that this deity should be done away with, but a few may even accept their fate as tools or even just side-effects of this insidious deity. very deist form of Force Tradition.

Aing-Tii: this tradition claims that The Force isn't just Light and Dark, but rather encompasses an enourmous spectrum of uncounted hues and shades. The Force is far too complicated to be just Light and Dark, according to this view.

White Current: a Force Tradition believing that The Force cannot be controlled, and that it directs all things according to destiny.

Sorcerers of Tund: the Sorcerers of Tund, in the fiction, were founded by Sith Mages. they believed that The Force was a source of Magic, and they accessed it with arcane rituals and cast spells. they believed that they could shape the Force, or use it to change fate. very pagan view of The Force.

The One: a belief that The Force was a god who's son represented the Dark Side of The Force and who's daughter represented the Light Side. The One (that is, God) is the balance between his divine offspring according to this view.
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Chieftain Twilight


Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion I gain strength.
Through strength I gain power.
Through power I gain victory.
Through Victory my bonds are broken.
The Force shall set me free.

there is also Revanite Sith Realism, which is the belief in the teachings of Revan/Darth Revan; that The Force is greater than Dark Side and Light Side, and always seeks balance. in many ways, it is a combination of Taoism and Egoism, with the Sith Code applied to it (and sometimes also Chaos Magic philosophy).

I myself am a Revanite Sith Realist. anyone else want to represent?

I respect Master Revan, his is perhaps a view I can say I embrace to a great extent, however, I take the Jedi Code very much to heart (pre-Master Skywalker's heinous reworking)

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

While yes Sithism inspires the value of the-power-of-the-will and may even act as a mantra for empowerment, I myself, as I grow older (and calmer) seek peace rather than power. Passion in itself is not evil, it is in the heart and minds of the young and inexperienced that it wreaks havoc. To all a time, a time for all. As I would love dueling with you, I enjoy conversing with you.


I'm glad to hear enthusiasm. ^_^ perfect, too, because you see, I find myself much at odds with the Jedi Code.

first of all, I take to heart very sternly that Peace is a lie (despite this, I still insist on using "Peace" as my leavetaking. I truely do wish whatever temporary Peace I can on anyone). it's just simply a fact that Peace never lasts.

secondly, the ideas of serenity and bliss are sickening to me. I'd be tortured to be without conflict for any considerable length. I'd hate it.

finally, it is my belief that Chaos is the Natural Order, and in fact is the wellspring of all things. Entropy is akin to Metaphysical Possibility in my mind.

besides, in the fiction, the Jedi are naive, self-righteous, hypocritical and stubbornly conservative. xd I rather hate uppity-types like that.
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Chieftain Twilight
pretty much, yeh. it's all about self-empowerment and motivation. the one difference between a Sith and a Satanist is that Sith believe in the Force, and Satanists are materialists. everything else is, as you said, completely redundant.




The code doesn't really define The Force. Outside Star Wars, and based on the rest of the code, I assumed (clearly stupidly) that it was just passion or motivation. The bit that gave you power - which seemed to be passion.

So what would The Force be then?


The Force is a point of debate even within the Star Wars universe. there are various views of it. I can link you to the Wookiepedia page on it.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force

it should also be noted that those with a logical mind are not going to think that we can pull of the feats of magic and psychic power depicted in the films, but that plenty of Sith Realists sadly think that they can. iii-_- it's a bit embaressing for me to admit that I'm Sith given this reality. so I hope you understand if I was reluctant to speak much at first about my belief in The Force.

I can also give you a quick summation of the various known views of the Force.

Living Force: Living Force proponents claim that The Force is a sentient entity, existing within and throughout all existing things, and binds them together. it has a Light Side and a Dark Side, and the latter can be very corrupting. Living Force Sith tend to think that they can get around this corruption.

Unifying Force: believers of the Unifying Force claim that the Force has no Light or Dark side, and that everything is connected by The Force. instead, Light and Dark are in in everyone, and what matters is how and why they perform any action -- not whether the action itself is a Dark or Light one.

Potentium: this belief is that The Force is inherently good, and that evil resides within the individual. as long as someone was doing something with good intention, especially if they followed the ways of the Jedi Order, they were safe from the Dark Side.

The Way of The Dark: this belief is that The Force is an extension of The Dark, and that it's inherently destructive or meant for destruction.

-- The Dark: this is here because it is related to the above Force Tradition. followers of The Dark are nihilists to the extreme. they believe that the Will of The Universe is the destruction of all things. they reject even the idea of The Force (with the exception of the sect who follow the Way of The Dark, who combine the two ideas into a weird belief system). only Death and Endings are truths to followers of The Dark. nothing lasts forever, and all is meant to fade; ultimately forever.

Insidious Force: the belief that The Force is an indifferent deity, uncaring of those who die or use it's power, as long as Balance is achieved. Followers of the Insidious Force generally believe that this deity should be done away with, but a few may even accept their fate as tools or even just side-effects of this insidious deity. very deist form of Force Tradition.

Aing-Tii: this tradition claims that The Force isn't just Light and Dark, but rather encompasses an enourmous spectrum of uncounted hues and shades. The Force is far too complicated to be just Light and Dark, according to this view.

White Current: a Force Tradition believing that The Force cannot be controlled, and that it directs all things according to destiny.

Sorcerers of Tund: the Sorcerers of Tund, in the fiction, were founded by Sith Mages. they believed that The Force was a source of Magic, and they accessed it with arcane rituals and cast spells. they believed that they could shape the Force, or use it to change fate. very pagan view of The Force.

The One: a belief that The Force was a god who's son represented the Dark Side of The Force and who's daughter represented the Light Side. The One (that is, God) is the balance between his divine offspring according to this view.



Would it be accurate to compare it to the common idea of witchcraft and/or energy work?
Some people become interested because they want to fly brooms (or have light sabers) but it's really more working with... uh... assumed energies in living things and working the world in accordance with your will?
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Raspberry Flavored Milk



Would it be accurate to compare it to the common idea of witchcraft and/or energy work?
Some people become interested because they want to fly brooms (or have light sabers) but it's really more working with... uh... assumed energies in living things and working the world in accordance with your will?


yes, that would be exactly right. smile
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I'm glad to hear enthusiasm. ^_^ perfect, too, because you see, I find myself much at odds with the Jedi Code.

Peace as a natural thing, as in inherent state in nature and creatures is a lie. The Jedi Code is not a "Lists of Facts" so to speak,
rather implies that one must remain constant in their quest for peace, that there will be times of imbalance and it is up to the person
to decide how to react (which path to seek), and consequently (as with the whole of Jedi philosophy) warns of falling to the Dark.

It is natural to feel restless. Please do not take it as an insult, but perhaps you are younger than most, me even, and it is quite
alright to feel this way now and for many years to come. The Jedi way, I believe, should not teach you to shuun your natural impulses
but to not be ruled by them, to govern them, not ignore them. (Be a steady stream, do not overflow and lose yourself, or a more extreme
example: NO! Don't rape that beautiful woman, get to know her, court her, dnd analize if your intentions are really what you truly desire)

I myself am prone to impulses and try to maintain equilibrium, give my emotion, my energy it's place, what's more, make it useful for me
or others if I please. But not for something as superficial as "gain" (to gain power, why? to gain stregth, why? to gain knowledge? What
sort of knowledge, why?) I am prone to depression you see, and it is here that I use the code, seek guidance.

Chaos is "part" of the Natural Order. When you bake something, you need to make the dough. You need to beat it and roll it and so on,
several times. This is a state of constant change. BUT remember, it is baked goods (bread) you want. If this cycle of change, this
conflict with your hands and the dough does not stop, the dough becomes either too dry and rough or flacid to mold and bake.

Chaos is something natural, neither good nor bad by itself. If you do not have floods, why bother building a dam, Why bother
trying to protect something.

I agree, Jedi in the SW Universe can be quite naive and conservative. In fact, the Jedi Order is more so a cult than what we may dub
the "Sith Order". I do not think the jedi code should become a doctrine, or "commandments" as I explained before. They are the compass
with which you determine your life choices. Neither good or bad in itself, as only the ultimate consequence of your balance/excess will
tell. It would be lovely to go about teaching these things, but I cannot help but think that some person will eventually make it their
"calling" to institutionalize it. (i.e. As with Christ. He--according to biblical history--never said, go forth and engrave this in the
hearts of men, create rituals, and focus on increasing "our" numbers)
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I'm glad to hear enthusiasm. ^_^ perfect, too, because you see, I find myself much at odds with the Jedi Code.

Peace as a natural thing, as in inherent state in nature and creatures is a lie. The Jedi Code is not a "Lists of Facts" so to speak,
rather implies that one must remain constant in their quest for peace, that there will be times of imbalance and it is up to the person
to decide how to react (which path to seek), and consequently (as with the whole of Jedi philosophy) warns of falling to the Dark.

It is natural to feel restless. Please do not take it as an insult, but perhaps you are younger than most, me even, and it is quite
alright to feel this way now and for many years to come. The Jedi way, I believe, should not teach you to shuun your natural impulses
but to not be ruled by them, to govern them, not ignore them. (Be a steady stream, do not overflow and lose yourself, or a more extreme
example: NO! Don't rape that beautiful woman, get to know her, court her, dnd analize if your intentions are really what you truly desire)

I myself am prone to impulses and try to maintain equilibrium, give my emotion, my energy it's place, what's more, make it useful for me
or others if I please. But not for something as superficial as "gain" (to gain power, why? to gain stregth, why? to gain knowledge? What
sort of knowledge, why?) I am prone to depression you see, and it is here that I use the code, seek guidance.

Chaos is "part" of the Natural Order. When you bake something, you need to make the dough. You need to beat it and roll it and so on,
several times. This is a state of constant change. BUT remember, it is baked goods (bread) you want. If this cycle of change, this
conflict with your hands and the dough does not stop, the dough becomes either too dry and rough or flacid to mold and bake.

Chaos is something natural, neither good nor bad by itself. If you do not have floods, why bother building a dam, Why bother
trying to protect something.

I agree, Jedi in the SW Universe can be quite naive and conservative. In fact, the Jedi Order is more so a cult than what we may dub
the "Sith Order". I do not think the jedi code should become a doctrine, or "commandments" as I explained before. They are the compass
with which you determine your life choices. Neither good or bad in itself, as only the ultimate consequence of your balance/excess will
tell. It would be lovely to go about teaching these things, but I cannot help but think that some person will eventually make it their
"calling" to institutionalize it. (i.e. As with Christ. He--according to biblical history--never said, go forth and engrave this in the
hearts of men, create rituals, and focus on increasing "our" numbers)


and with that, I must say I think you've proven yourself to have a greater and deeper understanding of Revan than I do. what you say makes alot of sense, and I want to meditate on it and try to understand it better. it may be even the key to question of why Revan decided to stick so strongly to the Light Side when his memories returned and he admitted his transcendence.

I'm glad you came to my thread, here. emotion_hug
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Hmm, never heard of this before.
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Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.
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Chieftain Twilight
Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.

:,D someone remembers me?!
Ah, probably why I haven't heard of it then. Area there any books published on it?
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Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.

:,D someone remembers me?!
Ah, probably why I haven't heard of it then. Area there any books published on it?


not that I know of. we generally just journal (concept similar to the Book of Shadows) and read up on Star Wars lore and general philosophy (typically ethics, political theory and theology).
Vlad T's avatar

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Chieftain Twilight
Vlad T
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Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.

:,D someone remembers me?!
Ah, probably why I haven't heard of it then. Area there any books published on it?


not that I know of. we generally just journal (concept similar to the Book of Shadows) and read up on Star Wars lore and general philosophy (typically ethics, political theory and theology).

Ah I see, i know some people follow the Jedi code in real life, how does this differ from that if I might ask?
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Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.

:,D someone remembers me?!
Ah, probably why I haven't heard of it then. Area there any books published on it?


not that I know of. we generally just journal (concept similar to the Book of Shadows) and read up on Star Wars lore and general philosophy (typically ethics, political theory and theology).

Ah I see, i know some people follow the Jedi code in real life, how does this differ from that if I might ask?


essentially, only in what the content is. it's a philosophical difference mainly. yet as you can see above, there are individuals across both Sith and Jedi lines who can have some common ground.

generally speaking, in terms of ethics the Sith represent the very things that the Jedi abhor -- Power, Passion, Selfishness, Conflict. the Jedi are about selflesness, Peace, and tranquility. Jedi believe in good and evil, and strive to be good; Sith generally do not.
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Vlad T
Chieftain Twilight
Vlad T
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Vlad T
Hmm, never heard of this before.


I remember you. hola!

and yeh, it's more than a bit secluded.... the few websites that actually have to do with it are either unfinished with plenty of red links, or else very overrun with idiots.

:,D someone remembers me?!
Ah, probably why I haven't heard of it then. Area there any books published on it?


not that I know of. we generally just journal (concept similar to the Book of Shadows) and read up on Star Wars lore and general philosophy (typically ethics, political theory and theology).

Ah I see, i know some people follow the Jedi code in real life, how does this differ from that if I might ask?

Jedi here. I might be a bit off, but I think generally, we see the Force as something akin to a blend of the Tao and Ch'i. So for Jedi, it's more of a mutual partnership with the Force. We don't really seek out how things can benefit us, we pretty much just seek contentment with what is. I mean, sure, we do try for internal self-improvement, and we may take up a martial art for fitness or self-defense or protection of others, but generally the sentiment is that "Wars not make one great."

I think the Sith do take a more Darwinist approach. Survival of the fittest, and all that. I guess we just go in it for the benefit of all.

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