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[Haha Coffee]

MySecretConfession

No spare change

How can Jews and Romans NOT exist without Jesus?
Romans were around long before Jesus supposedly roamed the earth.
No legit historical evidence of the existence of Jesus has ever been found. The only historical "evidence" that we have right now was written down by religiously influenced historians who wrote their books many years after the death of Jesus?
Many Jesuses have roamed the earth, and yes, there have been reports of a supposed "King of the Jews" named Jesus, but those reports and pieces of evidence still have to be proven to have been from Jesus' age. Many books and literal references that mention Jesus have been written many, many years after christianity was a widespread religion. No eye witness accounts have ever been written down, apart from the Bible, which is a book of lies and contradictions.

what about the shroud? I read a report from NASA that suggests the shroud to be authentic

No you didn't, because NASA has never gone near the shroud, the most recent looks at the shroud have all come out either that it's a forgery.

[Vestri Umbra]

Would the roman account you happen to be citing be Tacitus? If so i suggest you do a little more research on it and why it does not act as a valid source with regard to the existence of a biblical Jesus.

[Kaworu 17]

Vestri Umbra

Would the roman account you happen to be citing be Tacitus? If so i suggest you do a little more research on it and why it does not act as a valid source with regard to the existence of a biblical Jesus.

Ummm what the hell are you talking about? The Tacitus passage is clearly a genuine source on all accounts.

[Vestri Umbra]

Kaworu 17

Vestri Umbra

Would the roman account you happen to be citing be Tacitus? If so i suggest you do a little more research on it and why it does not act as a valid source with regard to the existence of a biblical Jesus.

Ummm what the hell are you talking about? The Tacitus passage is clearly a genuine source on all accounts.

I am not questioning it's authenticity. I am merely stating that his account is neither a contemporary account, nor a direct source. More likely, it is second hand information relayed to Tacitus. What's more, even were i to grant that it were a first hand account, then it still does not support a biblical Jesus. It does confirm that a Jesus upon whom the biblical account may have been based, though it says nothing toward authenticity of any of the miracle claims found in the bible.

[Kaworu 17]

Vestri Umbra

I am merely stating that his account is neither a contemporary account, nor a direct source.

Umm yeah, 92% of what we know about prominent figures in Antiquity was written by people who never knew them and lived at least 100 years after them.

Take Alexander for instance. NONE of the sources we have on him are contemporary, the earliest one is at least 200 years after his death. By your reasoning we should doubt that he existed.

[Vestri Umbra]

Kaworu 17

Vestri Umbra

I am merely stating that his account is neither a contemporary account, nor a direct source.

Umm yeah, 92% of what we know about prominent figures in Antiquity was written by people who never knew them and lived at least 100 years after them.

Take Alexander for instance. NONE of the sources we have on him are contemporary, the earliest one is at least 200 years after his death. By your reasoning we should doubt that he existed.

Thats true. If we ignore the vast amount of archeological evidence for his existence and ignore the impact of his rule... Ever heard of the hellenistic period? How about the Alexandrias. The cities founded by and named after Alexander the Great. What about Alexander IV of Macedon? The son of Alexander the Great. Whats more, those texts dealing with Alexander the Great are based off primary sources from the accounts of people who actually met, spoke with, and served under Alexander the great. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of Alexander the Great. There is on the other hand, very litte evidence for Jesus and no evidence for biblical, walk on water jesus. And where the hell did you pull that percentage from?

[Kaworu 17]

Vestri Umbra

Kaworu 17

Vestri Umbra

I am merely stating that his account is neither a contemporary account, nor a direct source.

Umm yeah, 92% of what we know about prominent figures in Antiquity was written by people who never knew them and lived at least 100 years after them.

Take Alexander for instance. NONE of the sources we have on him are contemporary, the earliest one is at least 200 years after his death. By your reasoning we should doubt that he existed.

Thats true. If we ignore the vast amount of archeological evidence for his existence and ignore the impact of his rule... Ever heard of the hellenistic period? How about the Alexandrias. The cities founded by and named after Alexander the Great. What about Alexander IV of Macedon? The son of Alexander the Great. Whats more, those texts dealing with Alexander the Great are based off primary sources from the accounts of people who actually met, spoke with, and served under Alexander the great. There is plenty of evidence to support the existence of Alexander the Great. There is on the other hand, very litte evidence for Jesus and no evidence for biblical, walk on water jesus. And where the hell did you pull that percentage from?

Of course, Alexander was a king/military ruler who went on campaigns across the known world. Christ is a peasant who didn't travel outside of Galilee and Judea.

If you wanna base historicity on the impact they had then there's really no contest. Alexander did change the world but his accomplishments are next to nothing compared to the influence a poor carpenter from the Middle East would have on the minds of men and women. I'm just not convinced. Why would a bunch of peasants just one day make up this story about this supposed son of God? For the lulz? I mean, it's not like they didn't know they were gonna be horribly killed, eventually. It's not like they thought they were gonna cash in quickly and live out the rest of the lives very comfortably. Who the hell takes the risk of being skinned alive or whatever over something you know is a lie? And how the hell did these uneducated plebeians get so smart that they were able to fool the freaking world? Something just doesn't add up.

[BlackShadow03]

Kaworu 17

Why would a bunch of peasants just one day make up this story about this supposed son of God? For the lulz? I mean, it's not like they didn't know they were gonna be horribly killed, eventually. It's not like they thought they were gonna cash in quickly and live out the rest of the lives very comfortably. Who the hell takes the risk of being skinned alive or whatever over something you know is a lie? And how the hell did these uneducated plebeians get so smart that they were able to fool the freaking world? Something just doesn't add up.

This same argument can be made for places and sects like the one at Jonestown. The logic of it all didn't stop it, so why would it stop anything else?

[Kaworu 17]

BlackShadow03

Kaworu 17

Why would a bunch of peasants just one day make up this story about this supposed son of God? For the lulz? I mean, it's not like they didn't know they were gonna be horribly killed, eventually. It's not like they thought they were gonna cash in quickly and live out the rest of the lives very comfortably. Who the hell takes the risk of being skinned alive or whatever over something you know is a lie? And how the hell did these uneducated plebeians get so smart that they were able to fool the freaking world? Something just doesn't add up.

This same argument can be made for places and sects like the one at Jonestown. The logic of it all didn't stop it, so why would it stop anything else?

And just like what happened at Jonestown makes no sense if that Jones guy didn't exist, then what happened in the first few centuries of our era also would make absolutely no sense unless a historical Christ did in fact exist.

[Snake Oil Salesman]

People don't usually claim that Jesus never existed. His divinity is what's in question, most of the time.

[Masrur Fanalis]

No spare change

How can Jews and Romans NOT exist without Jesus?
Romans were around long before Jesus supposedly roamed the earth.
No legit historical evidence of the existence of Jesus has ever been found. The only historical "evidence" that we have right now was written down by religiously influenced historians who wrote their books many years after the death of Jesus?
Many Jesuses have roamed the earth, and yes, there have been reports of a supposed "King of the Jews" named Jesus, but those reports and pieces of evidence still have to be proven to have been from Jesus' age. Many books and literal references that mention Jesus have been written many, many years after christianity was a widespread religion. No eye witness accounts have ever been written down, apart from the Bible, which is a book of lies and contradictions.

Actally in multiple Roman documents, they did talk about Jesus

[dh8d1]

Snake Oil Salesman

People don't usually claim that Jesus never existed. His divinity is what's in question, most of the time.

If I had 1 gaia gold for every human in history claiming to be divine in some way...

[MisdreavusPrincess]

MySecretConfession

Then Jews and Romans wouldn’t exist either ..
I don’t get how the Jews are not only a people but a religion and culture combined
You can’t have one without the other.
I watched a history report on ancient Roman text that state there was in fact a man crucified by the title of Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum
I’m starting to really believe that Jesus did exist and the existence of a God could in fact be real

You should really watch this when you have the time.

[deadmanjay]

MisdreavusPrincess

MySecretConfession

Then Jews and Romans wouldn’t exist either ..
I don’t get how the Jews are not only a people but a religion and culture combined
You can’t have one without the other.
I watched a history report on ancient Roman text that state there was in fact a man crucified by the title of Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum
I’m starting to really believe that Jesus did exist and the existence of a God could in fact be real

You should really watch this when you have the time.

No. No, you really shouldn't. Zeitgeist has been disproven. What it did to the Egyptian culture/religion alone was shoddy work.

[MisdreavusPrincess]

deadmanjay

MisdreavusPrincess

MySecretConfession

Then Jews and Romans wouldn’t exist either ..
I don’t get how the Jews are not only a people but a religion and culture combined
You can’t have one without the other.
I watched a history report on ancient Roman text that state there was in fact a man crucified by the title of Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum
I’m starting to really believe that Jesus did exist and the existence of a God could in fact be real

You should really watch this when you have the time.

No. No, you really shouldn't. Zeitgeist has been disproven. What it did to the Egyptian culture/religion alone was shoddy work.

Seriously? When was it dis-proven?
A friend recommended it to me the other day and I rather liked it...