AngelsDreadedFear
NOTE: I DO NOT INTEND TO ANGER ANYONE ABOUT THIS. I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND. THIS IS JUST SOMETHING I AM CURIOUS ABOUT...PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL AND FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE TOS. THANKS...
So, first off, I am agnostic. I just need proof to believe in God, Jesus, or anything. I had a brief, very brief, discussion with my dad and sister. I do not believe that there is proof of God, Jesus, ect...because I don't, like I posted, have proof. My sister mentioned the Bible for proof, but(not intending to piss anyone off) it is just a book to me. How does anyone know what really happened when no one even existed before God made us...so to speak. So, to me, The Bible is not proof(again not trying to piss anyone off).
Can we please discuss this? I just want to learn more...
Respectful, peaceful, advice is much appreciated and please do remember the ToS.
Thanks.
The Church does not exist because people have seen. The Church exists because people have believed. Have you ever seen the Santa Clause? With Tim Allen? There's a line in it where an elf (Judy) tells Tim Allen that "seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing." I think there is great profound truth in that.
I was once a skeptic, as many are. And in my skepticism, I came to the conclusion that there is not, nor can there be proof of God. For if there was faith would not be a thing. And it is by faith not realization, that we are saved. Many people think they must realize to have faith, but the fact of the matter is faith is the doorway to realization. We all must make a step of faith.
If your looking for the tree, stop. You will never find it. I know you don't believe, but you cant see it unless you have believed it. What you can see is the shadow of the tree. You aught look for that and then decide for yourself if what you see sufficiently looks like the shadow of a tree. But you must still take the leap of faith to say to yourself I think its a tree and not a cardboard cutout.
All that being said, I will give you two (as if I didn't limit myself I would sit here and write a book) points that I think best show this shadow of a tree. For the sake of your question I will use the Bible as my first point. The Bible is a collection of writings from the ancient world dating from about 2500 years bc to about 70 years ad. They were recorded and kept by the Jewish faith until Christ came and then they were kept by the Christian faith.
Its important to know the esteem with which they held the Old Testament. They would teach it to their children who were expected to have memorized the first five books by the time they were teenagers (I think it may be actually be 10 years old tho). They held the name of God in such high esteem that they would only write His name in gold and would bath themselves before they did it so they were ritualistically pure. They numbered every letter that was in the whole of the OT so they knew their copies were an exact reproduction. They would copy it onto leather so that it would last and it would take several months just to make the paper they wrote it on. It was a big deal to them to make sure what they had is what their children had.
There is also the new testament. Compared to other ancient manuscripts it is the most accurate, the most numerous and the nearest the actual time of the publication. There are 24,000 copies of the New testament. Compare that to the second most common which is Homer's Illiad at 643, and then the writings of Cesar at 20 copies. Oh and the earliest Iliad copy is 500 years older than its first written date. The writings of Cesar are 1000 years older than when it was first penned. The earliest NT is only 100 years older than when it was first penned.
The second point is to look outside. Look at the birds in the trees, the trees in the ground. The sun in the sky, with the moon that pulls the sea. Even if you think that its chance, someone had to roll the dice. Mindless or purposeless forces don't give birth to mindful purposed beings. Life does not give birth to death and light does not birth darkness. Nay you can not get light from darkness just like you can not get life from only death. There must have been life to begin with.
From that (speaking of myself now) I had to live with the fact that there was a creator, and now all I had to do was decide what He looked like. So I searched and used the nature of reality as it is to look for him. I saw Him in the ecosystems of remote jungles, in the way in which animals behaved (particularly that there is not hatred in them no thirst for revenge when a lion kills the antelope's fawn). I saw Him in the stars and in the people who hated Him. But most of all I saw Him in someone who loved me when I didn't deserve it. When I hated them, they forgave me and loved me. It blew my mind.
I started to look closer into this "Christianity", and the more I searched the more I saw the strings attached from God to His people and Creation, be they whole or broken strings, I saw them and that the degree to which they were attached or broken lined up with who God is. And eventually, after I had sought and sought and sought, my eyes were opened more and more and more and more until they were opened enough for my life to totally fall apart. It was terrifying, painful and horrible. But it was good. I came through it and wouldn't have changed it for all the money in the world.
Sorry for the length of this, especially given that you wont find your answer in pen and paper. You wont find your answer in a book. You will find your answer in yourself. The answer for me and the answer for you will come about when you reason in your heart that not knowing is not good enough. It will come about when you decide that you will hunt for the truth until the day you day as it is of chief importance. In that decision you will come by your answer as a drops fill a bucket. It will take a lot of hunting and a lot of searching, and eventually it will be full. If you persist in seeking, you will persist in finding. The trick is tho, you must look for Him and not an absence of Him. For whichever you seek, you will find.
Blessings
200
100
200
