Religion...hypocrisy or imperfectness?

[Fiddlers Green]

I've always thought that it's very important to follow a faith you truely believe in. As I understand Catholicism (and correct me if I'm wrong), mankind isn't perfect, and therefore it wouldn't be hypocritical to be imperfect (technically if the faith says mankind isn't perfect, would that make being perfect, hypocritical?). As I understand most of Christianity, the maker accepts that you'll slip up, that has a lot to do with why the Crucifixion took place, the Christ took those little slip ups and took responsibility for them.
However, if you willfully violate you're religions principles, and see no reason to follow them, you may want to consider a different faith...

[Pom Graines]

Fiddlers Green

I've always thought that it's very important to follow a faith you truely believe in. As I understand Catholicism (and correct me if I'm wrong), mankind isn't perfect, and therefore it wouldn't be hypocritical to be imperfect (technically if the faith says mankind isn't perfect, would that make being perfect, hypocritical?). As I understand most of Christianity, the maker accepts that you'll slip up, that has a lot to do with why the Crucifixion took place, the Christ took those little slip ups and took responsibility for them.
However, if you willfully violate you're religions principles, and see no reason to follow them, you may want to consider a different faith...

Exactly! Though I do not like like the concidering a different faith part...well to each his own. But that is what I mean. If you believe in something you should believe in all of it. Despite what may be peoples beliefs, homosexuality IS a choice. It may be something your subconcious works out for itself, but despite what people say it IS a choice. And besides that it is still a sin of lust- which was my whole case and point.

My earlier comment were also NOT to be compaired with racial slurrs at all! Homosexuality is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE not a RACE. There is quite the large difference. I would never even think about saying racial slurrs and then saying "it's OK, I have [insert number] [insert race here] friends". That is just dumb. I cannot justify disagreeing with someone's race- because that cannot be helped. But I can disagree with someone's choice.

If one of my friends decided to start smoking; I can tell them the risks. I can tell them what can happen. I can tell them it's a bad idea. I can't agree with their choice, but I can still be friends with the person. I have a bad respitory system and smoke is extremly bad for me to be around, so I would not be with them if they lit up a cigarette (just I would not be around my friends if they were performing any sexual actswith their partner), but I wouldn't just stop being their friend. So I just wanted to say that much to defend myself. I am not a racist for saying what I do because Homosexuality is not in and of itself a race.

[Ailinea]

Mameoyashi

My earlier comment were also NOT to be compaired with racial slurrs at all! Homosexuality is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE not a RACE. There is quite the large difference. I would never even think about saying racial slurrs and then saying "it's OK, I have [insert number] [insert race here] friends". That is just dumb. I cannot justify disagreeing with someone's race- because that cannot be helped. But I can disagree with someone's choice.

If one of my friends decided to start smoking; I can tell them the risks. I can tell them what can happen. I can tell them it's a bad idea. I can't agree with their choice, but I can still be friends with the person. I have a bad respitory system and smoke is extremly bad for me to be around, so I would not be with them if they lit up a cigarette (just I would not be around my friends if they were performing any sexual actswith their partner), but I wouldn't just stop being their friend. So I just wanted to say that much to defend myself. I am not a racist for saying what I do because Homosexuality is not in and of itself a race.

You are not understanding my point at all. I did not say that you were comparing it to a race. I was saying that it's was completely unnecessary to point out that you had gay/bi friends, because it's makes it look like you think it's OK for your opinions because you have friends who constitute the people you have those opinions on. For example:

Person A: "Black people smell funny and talk weird."
Person B: "Dude, that's mean. You must not like black people."
Person A: "Oh, no. I have three black friends."

Does that sound right to you? It's pointless to try to make yourself look better by pointing out things like what kind of friends you have. Moving on...

And to reinstate, homosexuality is NOT a choice! Perhaps by morons who think it's cool to be part of the new "gay trend" going on, but otherwise, true homosexuals did not make a choice to be gay any more than you made a choice to be straight. To think so is naive and completely close-minded. Even if what you say is correct, about a subconscious "choice", can you justify that that is even counted as a choice? How can you make a choice if you're not even aware of it? If it's subconscious, how did that come to happen? Did the mind just one day decide "Oh, I think I'll have sex with men/women from now on!"? What part of your physiology convinced your mind to suddenly become a f**? When people make a choice about something consciously, they consciously weigh the advantages and disadvantages. They consciously then decide what to do. After so many people havce been threatened with their life, beaten, or ridiculed because of their sexual orientation, why wouldn't they make a conscious choice to become straight again in order to avoid such ostracism? I would think that the mind, after put through so much stress, would want to subconsciously, as you say, revert back to heterosexuality. But it seems that's not the case. Those who do go back to being straight are living a lie and some usually end up being depressed, alcoholics, and/or drug abusers. As I stated earlier, who would choose to live in world that shuns them?

The smokers you mention is a rather crude analogy to the topic at hand. That is in no way related to homosexuality. People go to school, learn that smoking is bad, and some either don't smoke or smoke anyway. Society raises children to think that homosexuality is bad and people who really are gay don't say, "Oh, well then, I think I'll be straight then to avoid such bad things." They end up closeted and share the same symptoms of those mentioned above. Those who are gay and ignore societies complaints end up being happy at least knowing that they can accept themselves for who they are. It's time you did, too.

[Ailinea]

Oh, yes, and about the whole lust thing... are you saying that homosexuality is lust, but not heterosexuality? Hopefully you're not one of those people who thinks it's impossible for someone to "love" someone of the same sex. Well, if so, given that you're not gay, you wouldn't know anything about it, so let's keep that out of the subject, shall we? There is no right in assuming what other people feel for other people.

Even then, when heterosexuals have sex with each other, is that not lust? Ah, we're back to the topic at hand; hypocrisy.

[Pom Graines]

Ailinea

Oh, yes, and about the whole lust thing... are you saying that homosexuality is lust, but not heterosexuality? Hopefully you're not one of those people who thinks it's impossible for someone to "love" someone of the same sex. Well, if so, given that you're not gay, you wouldn't know anything about it, so let's keep that out of the subject, shall we? There is no right in assuming what other people feel for other people.

Even then, when heterosexuals have sex with each other, is that not lust? Ah, we're back to the topic at hand; hypocrisy.

You know nothing of me your my previous lifestyles. For quite the time I was bisexual and even for a time more intense I was homosexual. So I know and understand what it is quite well. So you cannot say "oh you're not homosexual you don't know!!" YOU are not homosexual either so YOU cannot say thigns in it's defence.

I'm not naive enough to think that every heterosexual person is after love. And I'm not saying it is impossible for someone of the same sex to love on another. BUT what I AM saying is that LUST occurs when there are sexual actions taken WITHOUT means of procreation. LUST is sex with no intent of procreation, and so self gratification is lust. What is homosexual sex then, other than lust? It is physical gratification from one gernder to a member of the same gender. And so, physical acts of homosexuality are lust, and if your friend is Catholic like he claims to be, he is conciously committing a sin and not repenting for it.

AND I am getting quite agrivated that you keep making me out to be someone racist. Homosexuality is DEFINED as a LIFESTYLE CHOICE and as such it is a choice. The example of a smoker was crued, I admit, but at least it is more on contest than you comapiring my words to racial slurrs.

I have been on both sides of the homosexuality fence, I was only stating I had homo/bisexual friends to furthur proove my point that i don't HATE homosexuals as the people, simply that I disagree with their CHOICE.

Quite frankly Ailinea I find it appauling how off topic you are being and thus are forcing me to be. You take person jabs at me whilst I am simply explaining my point of view as a Christian. You said you are not a Christian but that your friend is. You defend homosexuality as being something beyond choice, while also telling me that I know nothing of it because I am not homosexual. Does this mean since YOU are an authority on it that you are homosexual? HAVE you ever been homosexual? Do you KNOW what is it like, have you experienced it every before? Are you or have you been Christian for that matter? I am explaining my beliefs as a Christian, and have every right to. You do not know what it means to be Christian because you so obviously are not so you can just stop lecturing me on something you know nothing of.

I think, though I respect your right to free speech, I still think it is foolish, silly and down right rude to be compairing me to a racist when I was simply telling people despite my views on homosexuality the thing I can still like homosexuals as PEOPLE.

Again I find it odd that I have to defend myself from being compaired to a racist, which I might say is completely off topic!

I used to hate Christianity and religion, I used to be homosexual. So I'm afraid with my view from both sides I cannot be said to not know just because I am not whatever now.

I am not saying homosexuals are evil, I am not saying I hate them. I am simply saying that I disagree with the CHOICE of homosexuality- as I see it and know it to be- and that is entirely my opinon. I am not being a hypocrit or anything by holding my views. I relate again to the smoker, I may disagree with their choice of smoking but I am still their friend.


Oh, and one little note: Homosexuality has NOT been SCIENTIFICALY proven to be agaisnt the will of the homosexual. I am not naive or blind to science, I am not one who is completely blind because of my faith. I know that scientists have not yet proven the theory that homosexuality is invulentary. Their studies are inconclusive, and thus the very idea of having no choice in the matter put to rest. If one day ALL scientists do publically say that homosexuality is not of choice, then they will change the definition of homosexuality from a LIFESTYLE CHOICE. I do know that SOME scientists say that in THEORY Homosexuality is not of choice. SOME, and THEORY i believe are key words becuase until ALL scientists PROOVE THE THEORY it is not a fact. Speaking from personal experience, experience of various people around me, I still hold fast to my beliefs that it is a choice.

I also do not claim that I do not accept homosexuals are happy as they are. Honestly kudos to them for being happy. But as my FAITH dictates and even as SCIENCE dictates what they do is for nothing but physical gratificaion (scientific) a.k.a lust (faith). ANd what is lust in my faith? A SIN! Which was the point of this convorsation. It was not the point of "Whether Mameoyashi is a racist for saying that she disagrees with homosexuality". It was not "Making Mameoyashi make herslef look good by saying she has homosexual friends." or even "Let's go yell at Mameoyashi because I feel like trying to force my opinion on her, and if that doesn't work I'll make her out to seem racist and at least get other people on my side and make me the good person here!" The POINT of my earlier post was "The act of homosexuality whether defined scientificaly (as physical gratification) or by my faith (lust) is a sin in my religion.

Now I would greatly appreciate Ailinea if we can simply agree to disagree on this point and go our seperate ways. The only reason I return to this form is because you continue to make me out to be some sort of racist, though you say otherwise you follow into how what I said would be compaired to being a racist.

and to quote you my dear: Ah, we're back to the topic at hand; hypocrisy.