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Shameless Mystic

stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.
Atheists are quite capable of psychopathy. I would venture to say most modern psychopaths are atheists, as a lack of higher direction is appealing to someone with antisocial tendencies. Not all the time, though.
Aporeia
stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.
Atheists are quite capable of psychopathy. I would venture to say most modern psychopaths are atheists, as a lack of higher direction is appealing to someone with antisocial tendencies. Not all the time, though.


Those would be cases of psychopathy producing atheists.

Shameless Mystic

Lucky~9~Lives
Aporeia
stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.
Atheists are quite capable of psychopathy. I would venture to say most modern psychopaths are atheists, as a lack of higher direction is appealing to someone with antisocial tendencies. Not all the time, though.


Those would be cases of psychopathy producing atheists.
That's not un-true.

Lonely Phantom

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Alashuko The Fighter
I know the natural law and have heard people like Richard Dawkins admit there is no purpose for our existence. We exist. That's it. Enjoy your life. As an atheist, I would want to rid humanity. As a Christian, I would want to help people and find inner peace. As well as world peace.


Is your Christianity the only thing that stands before you and mass murder? If so, I can tell you two things: One, you need to be locked up; Two, then I guess just about every single atheist in this world is a better person than you.

You've created a false dichotomy for yourself. You say that being a Christian has made you charitable and helpful to your fellow man....and when you imagine how everyone else who isn't Christian lives, you deluded yourself into thinking it would have to be the most opposite of opposites (a mass murdering, vandalizing, raping and pillaging lost soul). Point to just about any non-religious atheist in your community (and if you live in the US, we're talking almost one person in five) and he or she would be proof that your idea is wrong. How would you explain an atheist helping in a charity? Repressed Judeo-Christianity? Or is it the more likely answer: You'd help people whether or not you were a Christian.

Your question, and the answer you pulled from it, are false to begin with. When you ask "Does an atheist have meaning", you are fishing for a "No" since you believe your religion gives the only "Yes". The correct answer is "Mu", basically that your question is flawed and cannot be given a binary answer in the terms specified. Is there an overarching meaning to life? Probably not. Does a particular atheist have a meaning in life? Likely. Meanings for an atheist would not be handed down to above, but created themselves if they so choose. But Christians, and those of other religions, create meaning for themselves just the same.

It's like....Minecraft (bear with me): The game doesn't have any particular "goal" or "missions" if forces you to take. There is no hovering text saying you need to make a castle on a hill to please the almighty quest log...you are free to instead clear a forest and make a farm. You, however, are giving the impression that a Christian would load up the game and stare blankly at the screen until instructions would arrive, and pray for all the skeleton archers to be destroyed by His holy magnificence. And you have deluded yourself into thinking that an atheist, upon loading up the game, would immediately delete it from the hard drive, set the computer on fire, and kill his family. Neither is true in the slightest (and my proof is how well the game sold).

In short, you've muddied your ideas with made-up terms like "Natural Laws" and confused your conclusions with the idea of "True Purpose". Not once have you considered that if neither actually exists, that not a whole hell of a lot would change. If Christianity was proved to be a farce tomorrow, 75% of the US wouldn't go on a murder rampage....very very few really would even consider it. If there is no Heaven or Hell, few would chose to make their sole existence a living hell, or stand for someone making other people's lives that bad. Would some do so? Sure. How do I know? Because people do it already in spite of their religious leanings. The main difference would be that those who are oppressed are less likely to pray for deific intervention, and help themselves and those around them.
That may be, but religion can spawn bad influence

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God Emperor Baldur
That may be, but religion can spawn bad influence

True.

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BlackShadow03
Alashuko The Fighter
I know the natural law and have heard people like Richard Dawkins admit there is no purpose for our existence. We exist. That's it. Enjoy your life. As an atheist, I would want to rid humanity. As a Christian, I would want to help people and find inner peace. As well as world peace.


Is your Christianity the only thing that stands before you and mass murder? If so, I can tell you two things: One, you need to be locked up; Two, then I guess just about every single atheist in this world is a better person than you.

You've created a false dichotomy for yourself. You say that being a Christian has made you charitable and helpful to your fellow man....and when you imagine how everyone else who isn't Christian lives, you deluded yourself into thinking it would have to be the most opposite of opposites (a mass murdering, vandalizing, raping and pillaging lost soul). Point to just about any non-religious atheist in your community (and if you live in the US, we're talking almost one person in five) and he or she would be proof that your idea is wrong. How would you explain an atheist helping in a charity? Repressed Judeo-Christianity? Or is it the more likely answer: You'd help people whether or not you were a Christian.

Your question, and the answer you pulled from it, are false to begin with. When you ask "Does an atheist have meaning", you are fishing for a "No" since you believe your religion gives the only "Yes". The correct answer is "Mu", basically that your question is flawed and cannot be given a binary answer in the terms specified. Is there an overarching meaning to life? Probably not. Does a particular atheist have a meaning in life? Likely. Meanings for an atheist would not be handed down to above, but created themselves if they so choose. But Christians, and those of other religions, create meaning for themselves just the same.

It's like....Minecraft (bear with me): The game doesn't have any particular "goal" or "missions" if forces you to take. There is no hovering text saying you need to make a castle on a hill to please the almighty quest log...you are free to instead clear a forest and make a farm. You, however, are giving the impression that a Christian would load up the game and stare blankly at the screen until instructions would arrive, and pray for all the skeleton archers to be destroyed by His holy magnificence. And you have deluded yourself into thinking that an atheist, upon loading up the game, would immediately delete it from the hard drive, set the computer on fire, and kill his family. Neither is true in the slightest (and my proof is how well the game sold).

In short, you've muddied your ideas with made-up terms like "Natural Laws" and confused your conclusions with the idea of "True Purpose". Not once have you considered that if neither actually exists, that not a whole hell of a lot would change. If Christianity was proved to be a farce tomorrow, 75% of the US wouldn't go on a murder rampage....very very few really would even consider it. If there is no Heaven or Hell, few would chose to make their sole existence a living hell, or stand for someone making other people's lives that bad. Would some do so? Sure. How do I know? Because people do it already in spite of their religious leanings. The main difference would be that those who are oppressed are less likely to pray for deific intervention, and help themselves and those around them.

You seem to think I put categories on people based off teams. The pro life and the ones who want to exterminate all life. That kind of thing. People are unique. That's the thing I've learned to cherish. It's the certain attributes and factors from Nurture that lead to behavior in people. I became an anarchist when I wasn't christian. I'm still anarchist. The difference with former atheism was I didn't care about science, religion, philosophy, or life. I just wanted to have fun and if anybody tried to stop me, I would spit in their face. Then by the time I became a Christian, the more I wanted to defend my beliefs, the more I looked into religion, psychology, sociology, science, evolution. Everything.

And we must consider this. The difference between Minecraft and Earth is that one is man made and the other was caused by things some people can explain and some people can't. The point is, that Minecraft is merely a material invention with a purpose to entertain its players with a simple goal of creativity. However, would you be able to say the same about Earth even though it was not made by man? Either made by God or was made upon chance in the galaxy.

Magical Investigator

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stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.

Fixed again. Richard Dawkins is a p***k.

AcidStrips's Husband

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Xiam
stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.

Fixed again. Richard Dawkins is a p***k.


Fixed. Atheism is the null stance, or rejection of the notion that the claim has met it's burden of proof. It produces nothing, but is a single position on a single topic arrived at either by conscious decision or natural absence of religious theistic teachings.

Dawkins being a p***k would have nothing to do with his atheism, though if he were a theist it might enable him to be more of a p***k.

Magical Investigator

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stealthmongoose
Xiam
stealthmongoose
Xiam
Alashuko The Fighter
Religion and Atheism: Both Can Produce Psychopaths Agree? Disagree?

Disagree - but only because of this.
Aporeia
They don't produce it. Psychopaths just show up, in and of themselves.

Exactly this. Psychopaths exist in spite of religious belief or nonbelief.

Theism and atheism simply give an excuse for people to be assholes to other people. And that's only one thing of many that would provide that kind of fuel to the fire.

Other things would be political ideologies, economics, race, sex, and psuedoscience. And I'm pretty sure that's not the limit.


Fixed. As if not smoking would give me an excuse to blow smoke.

Fixed again. Richard Dawkins is a p***k.


Fixed. Atheism is the null stance, or rejection of the notion that the claim has met it's burden of proof. It produces nothing, but is a single position on a single topic arrived at either by conscious decision or natural absence of religious theistic teachings.

Dawkins being a p***k would have nothing to do with his atheism, though if he were a theist it might enable him to be more of a p***k.

Fixed again, because "null stance" is a bullshit defense against people barging into any conversation with "GOD ISN'T REAL! DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TOOTH FAIRY TOO? HAHAHA YOU STUPID SON OF A b***h!"

Atheists aren't as ******** neutral as you think.

EDIT: I submit as evidence the fact that there is an actual T-shirt available for purchase that says "I am an atheist. Debate me."
Alashuko The Fighter
Agree? Disagree? Put your opinions and comments and if possible (hate comments). I decided to post this after thinking about what it would be like if I was atheist. What my political, scientific, and social views would be. And I would be considered a psychopath because of my atheism.


Why do you think that religion, or lack thereof, can "produce" psychopaths? Several people have pointed out that psychopaths are born, not made, and I haven't seen you agree or disagree. So what is your opinion?
Alashuko The Fighter
Agree? Disagree? Put your opinions and comments and if possible (hate comments). I decided to post this after thinking about what it would be like if I was atheist. What my political, scientific, and social views would be. And I would be considered a psychopath because of my atheism.


On second thought, I think you just don't understand the definition of "psychopath". How could changing your religion suddenly turn you into a psychopath? What do you think it means to be a psychopath?

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keito-ninja
Alashuko The Fighter
Agree? Disagree? Put your opinions and comments and if possible (hate comments). I decided to post this after thinking about what it would be like if I was atheist. What my political, scientific, and social views would be. And I would be considered a psychopath because of my atheism.


On second thought, I think you just don't understand the definition of "psychopath". How could changing your religion suddenly turn you into a psychopath? What do you think it means to be a psychopath?


To be fair, much of religion validates and enables psychopathic behavior. That's not to say that it causes or (as i realize me and Xi were mistakenly implying) produces psychopaths/assholes.

The fact that religion in general mandates certain behaviors that are hinged upon the supernatural, appeals to higher authority beyond humanity/nature, and focuses on ascension of an individual/their particular collective over others makes religion more of a catalyst for predisposed psychosis than having lesser or no religious beliefs.

The reason I say that atheism doesn't lead to the same trends is because atheism itself is pretty much absent from instruction and the views of atheists in general are varied enough that such psychological pressures from the position of atheism are absent or reduced.

Conflating the two as equal causative/correlative comparisons was what irked me, and may have caused me to give the impression that psychopathy is caused by religion, rather than enabled by it. I hope that clarifies any miscommunication on my part, if not anyone else's part.

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keito-ninja
Alashuko The Fighter
Agree? Disagree? Put your opinions and comments and if possible (hate comments). I decided to post this after thinking about what it would be like if I was atheist. What my political, scientific, and social views would be. And I would be considered a psychopath because of my atheism.


Why do you think that religion, or lack thereof, can "produce" psychopaths? Several people have pointed out that psychopaths are born, not made, and I haven't seen you agree or disagree. So what is your opinion?

So while your on the side of Nature, I'm on the side of Nurture.
Alashuko The Fighter
keito-ninja
Alashuko The Fighter
Agree? Disagree? Put your opinions and comments and if possible (hate comments). I decided to post this after thinking about what it would be like if I was atheist. What my political, scientific, and social views would be. And I would be considered a psychopath because of my atheism.


Why do you think that religion, or lack thereof, can "produce" psychopaths? Several people have pointed out that psychopaths are born, not made, and I haven't seen you agree or disagree. So what is your opinion?

So while your on the side of Nature, I'm on the side of Nurture.


What did you mean when you said that if you were atheist you'd suddenly be considered a psychopath. That's the part that makes me wonder if you know precisely what a psychopath is.

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