Relationships and Religion

[wishfullwriter888]

So here's my question. I'm a Catholic, believer in pro-life views and a believer that children should learn about God from a young age. Unfortunately, a very close friend of mine, an Atheist, states that I am "brainwashing" children, and that I'm blindly following an almighty being without question. I have respected his scientific views and understand that being a person who does not believe in a "Greater Power" doesn't need to hear my speel. The problem lies in that he can't let it go, and sometimes I feel that it does ruin our friendship to the point where it just becomes a dead subject.

What are your views? Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you? Do I have a right as a person to believe? Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

[Ratreoz]

wishfullwriter888

What are your views?

I don't have any religious friends, so I don't really have any experience with such stuff.

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Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you?

I will only bring up such matters if it feels appropriate, but if they tell me to shut up, then I will shut up. I'm a rather polite person irl.

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Do I have a right as a person to believe?

Of course. You can believe whatever you want.

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Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

Yes. And you have the right to ignore him.

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

wishfullwriter888

So here's my question. I'm a Catholic, believer in pro-life views and a believer that children should learn about God from a young age. Unfortunately, a very close friend of mine, an Atheist, states that I am "brainwashing" children, and that I'm blindly following an almighty being without question. I have respected his scientific views and understand that being a person who does not believe in a "Greater Power" doesn't need to hear my speel. The problem lies in that he can't let it go, and sometimes I feel that it does ruin our friendship to the point where it just becomes a dead subject.

What are your views? Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you? Do I have a right as a person to believe? Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

You must have a brutally honest friend if you're being told that you're "brainwashing" children and blindly following God. Are you the one bringing up the subject, or is it him? Are you talking about this with your friend, or does your friend just say out of the blue, "You're brainwashing children, and you blindly follow God"? As for the right to believe, you're free to believe whatever you want. Your friend can tell you you're wrong if he wants.

[unerring dogma]

wishfullwriter888

So here's my question. I'm a Catholic, believer in pro-life views and a believer that children should learn about God from a young age. Unfortunately, a very close friend of mine, an Atheist, states that I am "brainwashing" children, and that I'm blindly following an almighty being without question. I have respected his scientific views and understand that being a person who does not believe in a "Greater Power" doesn't need to hear my speel. The problem lies in that he can't let it go, and sometimes I feel that it does ruin our friendship to the point where it just becomes a dead subject.

What are your views? Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you? Do I have a right as a person to believe? Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

Considering that you say you are Catholic, I am surprised that you haven't told him that Catholics believe in evolution and the Big Bang Theory. Cosnidering it was Georges Lemaitres who invented the latter, it might shut him up a little.

[Ratreoz]

unerring dogma

Considering that you say you are Catholic, I am surprised that you haven't told him that Catholics believe in evolution and the Big Bang Theory. Cosnidering it was Georges Lemaitres who invented the latter, it might shut him up a little.

I doubt it. Her friend considers her to be deeply irrational and even immoral. That a catholic first came up with the idea of the big bang is irrelevant.

[I Refute Berkeley Thus]

Children get their views on the world one way or another. Why one way could be considered 'brainwashing' any more than any other is beyond me.

[Ratreoz]

Postulate II

Children get their views on the world one way or another. Why one way could be considered 'brainwashing' any more than any other is beyond me.

In the context of religion I would define "brainwashing" as follows: Insisting on the truth of claims, but refusing to provide the tools to verify those claims.

You can convince young children of just about anything and if denied the tools to examine the claims made they will often continue to believe uncritically into adulthood.

[A Soporific]

Crazy, bacause I could have sworn that the definition of branwashing was:

Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: ˈbrān-ˌwȯ-shiŋ, -ˌwä-
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) xǐnǎo
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

CITE

If it's not "forcible" or based on "propaganda or salesmanship" then it's not brainwashing.

[Ratreoz]

A Soporific

Crazy, bacause I could have sworn that the definition of branwashing was:

I very specifically wrote "in the context of religion" and I even put "brainwashing" in quotation marks to indicate that I was not using it the way I normally would. But if you want to play, I'll play.

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Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: ˈbrān-ˌwȯ-shiŋ, -ˌwä-
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) xǐnǎo
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

CITE

If it's not "forcible" or based on "propaganda or salesmanship" then it's not brainwashing.

• The children often have absolutely no choice in the matter and if they resist they will be forced to pay attention.
  
• Look up the etymology for "propaganda".
  
• Priests are paid to sell beliefs and many of them are very skilled at that.

[A Soporific]

Ratreoz

A Soporific

Crazy, bacause I could have sworn that the definition of branwashing was:

I very specifically wrote "in the context of religion" and I even put "brainwashing" in quotation marks to indicate that I was not using it the way I normally would. But if you want to play, I'll play.

So the definition of words change now when your talking about religion as opposed to not talking about religion?

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Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Main Entry: brain·wash·ing
Pronunciation: ˈbrān-ˌwȯ-shiŋ, -ˌwä-
Function: noun
Etymology: translation of Chinese (Beijing) xǐnǎo
Date: 1950
1 : a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas
2 : persuasion by propaganda or salesmanship

CITE

If it's not "forcible" or based on "propaganda or salesmanship" then it's not brainwashing.

• The children often have absolutely no choice in the matter and if they resist they will be forced to pay attention.
  
• Look up the etymology for "propaganda".
  
• Priests are paid to sell beliefs and many of them are very skilled at that.

Cite? Also Etymology is not definition.
Also, I could have sworn that priests were paid to minister and manage, rather than sell belief. I thought that was the job of the media.

[Ratreoz]

A Soporific

So the definition of words change now when your talking about religion as opposed to not talking about religion?

I can define any word however I want. I provided a definition exactly because I was not using the common one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but since you're being bitchy about it I'll just use another term: "child indoctrination". Using the definition I posted earlier I consider it as immoral as brainwashing.

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Cite?

Jesus Camp.

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Also Etymology is not definition.

ORLY? In this specific case I consider the etymology to be rather interesting.

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Also, I could have sworn that priests were paid to minister and manage, rather than sell belief. I thought that was the job of the media.

Yeah, because no priest has ever tried to convert a nonbeliever.

[A Soporific]

Ratreoz

A Soporific

So the definition of words change now when your talking about religion as opposed to not talking about religion?

I can define any word however I want. I provided a definition exactly because I was not using the common one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but since you're being bitchy about it I'll just use another term: "child indoctrination". Using the definition I posted earlier I consider it as immoral as brainwashing.

You can, but you would be wrong. I can define "house" to mean "wood". Of course, the meaning you get out of my words would be totally different than what I'm trying to convey. You have the same case here, misapplying a word with a clear negative connotation when shooting for guilt by association.

I fail to see how this differs to political group, socialization, and ethics when it comes to "child indoctrination". You might consider it immoral, but wouldn't that be just because you disagree with the subject or take incredibly extreme examples as representative.

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Cite?

Jesus Camp.

And this is repersentative how?

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Also Etymology is not definition.

ORLY? In this specific case I consider the etymology to be rather interesting.

It is, but that doesn't support the case at hand.

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Also, I could have sworn that priests were paid to minister and manage, rather than sell belief. I thought that was the job of the media.

Yeah, because no priest has ever tried to convert a nonbeliever.

So, everything anyone tries to do at any point is now the reason they are paid? So I assume that I am paid by the Board of Elections to drink and party because I do so on occasion?

[Aino Ailill]

wishfullwriter888

What are your views?

I am an atheist. I support the Christians teaching their children to be Christian. I would prefer if they did not teach them to be so without question, however, as a person should have more foundation under them than Appeals to Authority (mommy said so).

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Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you?

Depends on the specific faith.

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Do I have a right as a person to believe?

Depends on where you live. In the USA, yes.

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Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

Depends on where you live. In the USA, yes. According to my morality, yes. From what you have stated, your friend finds the teaching of children ('indoctrination') to be morally reprehensible. Is e not then morally obligated to speak out?

[wishfullwriter888]

John Calvin

wishfullwriter888

So here's my question. I'm a Catholic, believer in pro-life views and a believer that children should learn about God from a young age. Unfortunately, a very close friend of mine, an Atheist, states that I am "brainwashing" children, and that I'm blindly following an almighty being without question. I have respected his scientific views and understand that being a person who does not believe in a "Greater Power" doesn't need to hear my speel. The problem lies in that he can't let it go, and sometimes I feel that it does ruin our friendship to the point where it just becomes a dead subject.

What are your views? Will you let the believers of a faith be as long as they aren't badgering you? Do I have a right as a person to believe? Does HE have a right to tell me that I am wrong?

You must have a brutally honest friend if you're being told that you're "brainwashing" children and blindly following God. Are you the one bringing up the subject, or is it him? Are you talking about this with your friend, or does your friend just say out of the blue, "You're brainwashing children, and you blindly follow God"? As for the right to believe, you're free to believe whatever you want. Your friend can tell you you're wrong if he wants.

He is an extremely honest type of person, and it is a topic he wishes to speak about. He brings it up because he is the type of person who likes to have long intellectual discussions on every matter, including the "nonsense" of religion. I don't mind them, but soemtimes he forgets that I am religious and he sometimes crosses the line.

[Akhenaton of man]

Learning about God should be their choice. The greatest soldier is one who consented to war.