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In my opinion, the question of whether prayer has an effect cannot be tested.
I have prayed and nothing happened.
I have prayed and something happened.
I have prayed and have no idea if anything happened.

Prayer isn't like throwing a ball up into the air. You aren't going to get the same effect every time.
Grayed
In my opinion, the question of whether prayer has an effect cannot be tested.
I have prayed and nothing happened.
I have prayed and something happened.
I have prayed and have no idea if anything happened.

Prayer isn't like throwing a ball up into the air. You aren't going to get the same effect every time.


In my opinion, the question of whether crossing the street with my eyes closed has an effect cannot be tested.
I have crossed the street with my eyes closed and nothing happened.
I have crossed the street with my eyes closed and something happened.
I have crossed the street with my eyes closed and have no idea if anything happened.

Crossing the street with my eyes closedisn't like throwing a ball up into the air. You aren't going to get the same effect every time.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?
I am amazed at how many people think God is a magical genie that will and should answer all their prayers. You ever think maybe prayers are unanswered because you are SUPPOSE to experience it? My mother had cancer for 6 years and died a horribly painful death. She prayed, I prayed.. everyone prayed.

But her dying didn't mean I stopped believing in God. It was obviously her time. Yes, she died young. No, that's not God being mean. She was a smart woman and she probably died becuase she was a good person with a wonderful heart and it was her time.
Exactly. God isn't our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. If anything, it's the opposite. When you pray against a death of a family member, do you ever stop to think that maybe it's in God's ultimate plan for that person to die? Perhaps as a test of a person's faith? If anyone prays for years and still doesn't get their result and then decides God isn't really, that really tells something about the person's misconception of God. Someone who truly understands God when they pray will immediately know that God has his own agenda and plan for everything and that their prayer against it is misconceived. When I pray on these types of things, I just assure God to do what is in his plan, for my will on the matter matters very little compared to his. That type of acceptance of God's plan is what will keep someone to believe in God no matter what happens. And if otherwise is held, then well, I guess the person never really believed in the same God who exists in the first place.
Mihasiu
Exactly. God isn't our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. If anything, it's the opposite. When you pray against a death of a family member, do you ever stop to think that maybe it's in God's ultimate plan for that person to die? Perhaps as a test of a person's faith? If anyone prays for years and still doesn't get their result and then decides God isn't really, that really tells something about the person's misconception of God. Someone who truly understands God when they pray will immediately know that God has his own agenda and plan for everything and that their prayer against it is misconceived. When I pray on these types of things, I just assure God to do what is in his plan, for my will on the matter matters very little compared to his. That type of acceptance of God's plan is what will keep someone to believe in God no matter what happens. And if otherwise is held, then well, I guess the person never really believed in the same God who exists in the first place.
Look, the whole point of this thread is that God has jumped through hoops before. He admits it freely.

Okay? There is ******** proof in the Bible that God at least USED to be our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. So why'd he suddenly stop being one?
TheMessioma
Look, the whole point of this thread is that God has jumped through hoops before. He admits it freely.

Okay? There is ******** proof in the Bible that God at least USED to be our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. So why'd he suddenly stop being one?
One day he learned a word that he heard so often. He learned to say say "no". And then he fought back and it became, THE PLANET OF THE GOD! Bum bum BUM 3nodding
TheMessioma
Mihasiu
Exactly. God isn't our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. If anything, it's the opposite. When you pray against a death of a family member, do you ever stop to think that maybe it's in God's ultimate plan for that person to die? Perhaps as a test of a person's faith? If anyone prays for years and still doesn't get their result and then decides God isn't really, that really tells something about the person's misconception of God. Someone who truly understands God when they pray will immediately know that God has his own agenda and plan for everything and that their prayer against it is misconceived. When I pray on these types of things, I just assure God to do what is in his plan, for my will on the matter matters very little compared to his. That type of acceptance of God's plan is what will keep someone to believe in God no matter what happens. And if otherwise is held, then well, I guess the person never really believed in the same God who exists in the first place.
Look, the whole point of this thread is that God has jumped through hoops before. He admits it freely.

Okay? There is ******** proof in the Bible that God at least USED to be our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. So why'd he suddenly stop being one?


My belief is that God was always a step ahead - and still is. He never really was a dog that we commanded to jump through hoops, but we're human, and our views are flawed, so we can think that. I personally believe that he knows what he's doing.

Jeering Regular

Well, given the context in which Exodus was written, there's some evidence to dispute that. Judaism, and by extension Christianity, has its roots in a sort of amalgamated religion of the several larger mythologies of the Canaanite, Egyptian, and Mesopotamian cultures, mixed with the cult of Yah, and some consider Jethro to have been a priest of said cult, explaining why he is referred to as a priest of God, despite there not being an Israelite religion to speak of at that period. The Torah tends to emphasize certain cultural attributes of one of these mythologies, depending on the land the story is taking place in (i.e. behavior adherent to the Nuzi tablets when close to Arrapha, traditional Greek storytelling when in Phonecia/Canaan, et cetera). In Egypt, one belief was that knowing the certain words could give you power, the secret names of gods in particular. From this context, when the Israelite God told Moses his name, he gained the power to basically use His powers.

Too bad they never actually wrote it down, eh?
TheMessioma
Look, the whole point of this thread is that God has jumped through hoops before. He admits it freely.

Okay? There is ******** proof in the Bible that God at least USED to be our little dog we can command to jump through hoops. So why'd he suddenly stop being one?
If He did continue to jump through hoops today, do you really think atheists would have their minds changed about Him? No, they'd probably claim it occured through some other means, anything but God. If He kept jumping through hoops, then what test is that of one's faith any longer? Why would he show us tricks constantly just to reinforce his existance when it is more proper and sinless of us to recognize his existance without such demanding evidence? That is the test of our existence. In the Bible, He showed His existence to correct the ways of a group of people leading a sinful life not believing in Him, never even conceiving the idea of Him at all. Today, everyone knows of at least the concept of an omnipotent God, so it is their choice to choose whether they believe him or not.
Dermezel
The Bible is hardly as convincing as magical writing in the sky would be.


Save the irony for some other time.

Dermezel
Why do you say this?


Why do I say it?
Well if you look at society and how it's changed over the centuries you kind of see why many peple have drifted away from religion and have become somewhat agonistic. In modern day religion, its not so much about faith and old teachings, its more about financial crap and trying to pay the churchs rent. The moral of the story now is that current churches love to bash other religions and care more about propaganda rather then keep their focus on the actual purpose. This is why many people have left the church.
Axioma, you can't test God with the scientific method because he's not a parsimonious hypothesis smile
Triste Morningstar
Yes, but if God did it a zillion years ago, why doesn't he do it today?

Furthermore, why did he kinda stop talking to us? There hasn't been a real prophet in a while, from what I've heard.


Try 6000 years. Anyway....

Both questions depend on us knowing something we don't: why God talked to humans at all, and those humans in particular. We don't exactly have the ability to psychoanalyze God's motives.

Now, speaking to the second question first: To Christains and Muslims, God stopped talking because He doesn't really have anything else to say. The last prophet-of-choice is the final authority on the matter. I don't really know about Judaism's opinion. I think it's that God stopped talking sometime in the Maccabean era, but I don't know why.

Speaking to the first question now, I don't see how it's an answerable question unless we know God's motives. Which we don't.
Lysia
Axioma, you can't test God with the scientific method because he's not a parsimonious hypothesis smile


Well... yes. I think.

Then ******** science, let's just go with common sense. Common sense dictates that when people turn into pillars of salt and sinners drop dead, and burning bushes start talking to you and the gospel is written in the stars, God exists. Or you're insane. But hopefully, God exists.
SlaineWildfire
Maybe the Bible is full of lies?


I'm gonna half to agree with her especally since I saw the inside of a bible cover in the libary that had a picture of jesus fliping me off saing that everything in this book is a lie

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