Premarital Sex - Sin?

[Wadzworth929]

Black Carpathia

If you're mature and responsible about it you can have sex with who ever you want, provided there's consent, regardless of marraige or love.

Several religions frown upon sex before marraige. But ultimatly, it's your choice. It doesn't matter what anyone says aslong as you're happy.

The problem is, to argue the point you are making is to say that anyone can have sex as long as there is consent and "love". Since "love" is not arguable in a court of law, we suddenly are required to legalize *****. Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness. Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind. Waiting until you are married and knowing that your spouse has also waited for you brings a great degree of true happiness, not pleasure.

[Icysnowgirl]

Flemavenger

The problem is, to argue the point you are making is to say that anyone can have sex as long as there is consent and "love". Since "love" is not arguable in a court of law, we suddenly are required to legalize *****. Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness. Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind. Waiting until you are married and knowing that your spouse has also waited for you brings a great degree of true happiness, not pleasure.

You stated yourself what would keep us from legalizing *****. Consent. According to the U.N.'s defination, a person is not legally able to give concent until age 18, meaning anything before that is statutory rape.

It is the same thing with animals. Because animals are not legally able to give consent, having sex with them is rape.

STDs and unwanted pregnancies can be avoided with proper birth control use. And no, abortion is not the first defence of birth control for the majority of people.

How would you define 'true happiness' and how can you be sure that your idea of true happiness would match someone else's?

[Gabrielle Argith]

You cant have premarital sex or your going to hell. I wont cause im not Christian so I can screw like a bunny. Enjoy your right hand.

The problem with this system is we dont get married at 16 anymore. Marriage can be postponed up to maybe 30. Can you last 30 years without sex? So young devout Christians are getting married before 20 not because they know that the person they are with is the one but because they want to have sex and not go to hell.
I know of three couples under the age of 18 that are engaged. They all did so after 6 months of seeing the other person. 6 months? You cant begin to know a person for years and years and you decide to marry a person after 6 months? The reason for this they are horny. Ive gotten 2 of the men out of the three relationships to admit this. Of course they say they love the person but still... My above point is you cannot know a person well enough to marry him after 6 months or even a year.
This is also contributing to the high divorce rate. It is alright to marry at a young age to have sex, not alright to have sex before marriage and also alright to get divorced which will screw the children up.
And yes if the couple is devoutly catholic they will have a child within 2 years. Has to do with the catholic's old view on condoms. Sex is for reproducing not pleasure. Which is the reason they got married in the first place but smeh...
That is the first part of a very long rant....

[Deoridhe]

Flemavenger

Black Carpathia

If you're mature and responsible about it you can have sex with who ever you want, provided there's consent, regardless of marraige or love.

Several religions frown upon sex before marraige. But ultimatly, it's your choice. It doesn't matter what anyone says aslong as you're happy.

The problem is, to argue the point you are making is to say that anyone can have sex as long as there is consent and "love".

Actually, the argument is that all that is required is consent.

Flemavenger

Since "love" is not arguable in a court of law, we suddenly are required to legalize *****]
So you missed the fact that people under certain ages are unable to legally consent?

Flemavenger

Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness. Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind.

Those occur within marriage as well.

[Priestess Acadia]

I guess I'm in the minority here, being somebody who sees nothing "wrong" with premarital sex. My opinion has always been that as long as everybody involves is a consenting adult, I don't really see a problem with it.

I never wanted to be a virgin until I got married, that was never one of my goals. I made it out of high school a virgin, turned 18 as a virgin, and that's really all I could have wanted.

Now, I'm married, and I'm really glad I didn't wait to have sex. Including my husband, I had 7 partners, and I'm grateful for all of them.

So my opinion is, if you want to have premarital sex, just be smart about it. Protect yourself, protect your partner, and only do it with people who consent to doing it.

[jaden kendam]

Icysnowgirl

Flemavenger

She was not a prostitue. These assertions were added into the Bible and were not originally there.

I'm curious, where did you get this information?

The Catholic church had called her a prostitute, and in 1969 they rescended it. It was an error between Mary Magdalene, who was born of wealth, and another Mary, who was a prostitute. It is a shame that people who say they do not listen to the Catholic church, stab themselves in the foot when speaking of Mary Magdalene.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/12/cp.01.html

I know Wikipedia is not the best, but it does talk about what I just mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene

To Edit, there were three Mary's, other than Jesus' mother. The Church just got them all mixed up.

[Captain Saeta]

Le Soleil Neigeux

Nine Lotus Petals Falling

I say if two willing adults want to have sex then there is nothing wrong with it. Why would there be? After all marriage is nothing more than a ceremony. Most of the marriages in history, yes, even in the bible, were made not for love but for political and monetary reasons. What really matters is not the ceremony but the relationship. Two loving people having sex is a beautiful thing, whether they are married or not. Marriage is just a legal binding of the two people.

Good point. -But as for the Bible, does it approve or disprove of sex before marriage? Does it even mention it at all?

Yes it does, and often enough too (no, not in the ten commandments directly, though in some manner of speaking it could refer to fornication...). Some of it is contained in the Old Testament Mosaic laws, moot nowadays some say though I think many of them are still good guidance (the fornication forbayance is often infered, in the form of sex always being mentioned after the marriage itself was tied). Paul also writes quite a bit about it in his letters to the early churches. Culturally, the Jews greatly honored the virginity of their daughters before marriage, and sex during marriage, so that it was not terribly long ago that a new husband would bring the bloody sheets of his bed to show to the wife's father (as a sign that the marriage had been, er, concecrated through the loss of her virginity and, presumably, the joining of the two families through a future child.

1 Corinthians 7:1-2
Lev. 21:9
Deut. 22:20-11
Ex. 22:16
Matt. 5:32
John 8:41
Acts 15:20
Rom. 1:29
Gal 5:19
Eph 5:3
Col 3:5
1 Thess
Jude 1:7

Some of the above verses refer directly to fornication, many more refer however to sexual immorality, which to the Jews would've meant any deviance from God's intended plan for sex, again always decribed after a marriage, at least when taken in good light (fornication, but also adultery, incest, masturbation (as sex is always decribed as being for man and woman 'as one'), bestiality, etc).

[No No Raja]

Flemavenger

Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness.

In an ideal world, it should.

But this world is not ideal and many people enjoy sex because of the physical and emotional connection it brings with it, even before marriage.

Sex is a beautiful thing if done in the right spirit; if you truly want to give yourself over somebody and want to use your body to pleasure them and not yourself. Marriage has nothin' to do with it.

Flemavenger

Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind.

This is why we have protection.

And so what? People make stupid mistakes. If there is love in the relationship, even if there's unwanted pregnancy or STI, then that partner will stand by you no matter what.

Personally, I don't see what the big hoopla about family is. I mean, I come from as "normal" a family as you can get and I'm pretty ******** up.

Family is not whom you are related to, nor who you are married to. Family is the people that stand by you no matter what and love you for who you are--which is more than my family ever did for me.

Flemavenger

Waiting until you are married and knowing that your spouse has also waited for you brings a great degree of true happiness, not pleasure.

Proof of this? Or is this just another unattainable ideal that you strive for?

[Wadzworth929]

Deoridhe

Flemavenger

Black Carpathia

If you're mature and responsible about it you can have sex with who ever you want, provided there's consent, regardless of marraige or love.

Several religions frown upon sex before marraige. But ultimatly, it's your choice. It doesn't matter what anyone says aslong as you're happy.

The problem is, to argue the point you are making is to say that anyone can have sex as long as there is consent and "love".

Actually, the argument is that all that is required is consent.

I misread and I appologize.

Quote:

Flemavenger

Since "love" is not arguable in a court of law, we suddenly are required to legalize *****]
So you missed the fact that people under certain ages are unable to legally consent?

According to the current laws, but major liberal activist groups, such as the ACLU and AMBLA, are working hard to change that.

Quote:

Flemavenger

Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness. Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind.

Those occur within marriage as well.

Because in marriage (well, faithful marriage) a person's sex partners are limited to one, the rate of spreading STDs is exponentially shortened. Unwanted pregnancies may occur, but then again, people should not be having sex unless they are willing to accept responsibility for the fact that a child is a possible outcome of their actions. Abortion is an irresponsible solution for an unwanted pregnancy.

Taking this one step further, when pregnancies occur outside of marriage, or even in cohabitation, there are negative consequences for the child. I googled some terms and this was the first site that came up. It has some interesting statistics relating to the problematic impact on modern society because of social acceptance for immoral sexual activity, be it adultery or fornication.
http://christianparty.net/children.htm
The statistic I was looking for in the Google was this:

Quote:

78% of the nation's jail and prison inmates grew up in a fatherless household, even though only 15% of today's adult population grew up fatherless.

It is for these reasons that God created the family unit, to raise righeous children. As the family unit is destroyed by the decreasing marriage population, every aspect of society is severely harmed.

[Wadzworth929]

I just bumped into a few more statistics.

Quote:

• Living together is considered to be more stressful than being married.
  
  
• Just over 50% of first cohabiting couples ever get married.
  
  
• In the United States and in the UK, couples who live together are at a greater risk for divorce than non-cohabiting couples.
  
  
• Couples who lived together before marriage tend to divorce early in their marriage. If their marriage last seven years, then their risk for divorce is the same as couples who didn't cohabit before marriage.

http://marriage.about.com/od/cohabitation/qt/cohabfacts.htm
This site also had some interesting stats.
http://www.unmarried.org/statistics.html

[Wadzworth929]

Saltski Circe

Flemavenger

Certainly premarital sex brings momentary fleeting "happiness"/pleasure, but it also causes lots of unhappiness.

In an ideal world, it should.

But this world is not ideal and many people enjoy sex because of the physical and emotional connection it brings with it, even before marriage.

Sex is a beautiful thing if done in the right spirit; if you truly want to give yourself over somebody and want to use your body to pleasure them and not yourself. Marriage has nothin' to do with it.

Marriage has everything to do with it, because it shows commitment. It shows that you love the person and see them as a companion you wish to stay with the rest of your life. To not get married shows just the opposite, that you are not willing to put forth the commitment and you still see the relationship as a temporary test. Even cohabitating couples who do stay together all their lives will still have a different mindset from one of complete trust and commitment because of the signal that is sent by not getting married.

Quote:

Flemavenger

Things like STDs and unwanted pregnancies, abortions all come to mind.

This is why we have protection.

And so what? People make stupid mistakes. If there is love in the relationship, even if there's unwanted pregnancy or STI, then that partner will stand by you no matter what.

Personally, I don't see what the big hoopla about family is. I mean, I come from as "normal" a family as you can get and I'm pretty ******** up.

Family is not whom you are related to, nor who you are married to. Family is the people that stand by you no matter what and love you for who you are--which is more than my family ever did for me.

Protection does little to prevent STDs. The comparison you usually here is that the HIV virus vs. a condom is like throwing a handful of golf balls at a vollyball net.

All too often, when premarital pregnancies occur, it is because of a lack of love, and a confusion of "lust" for "love". Because of this, often the partners do not "stand by you no matter what" and tend to disappear. I'm sorry that you had a difficult family life. There are extremes with every situation. It is good that you had friends to take the place of your family, and sometimes this is what needs to happen when the family unit is hurt internally by the actions of irresponsible parents. However, having the family unit controlled by righteous parents leads to a good, law abiding society with a strong economy, while the increase of divorce rates, premarital sex, single-parents, and cohabitation leads to just the opposite.

Quote:

Flemavenger

Waiting until you are married and knowing that your spouse has also waited for you brings a great degree of true happiness, not pleasure.

Proof of this? Or is this just another unattainable ideal that you strive for?

This is an opinionated statement. I do not have statistics to support myself on this one.

[Deep Vermillion]

Flemavenger

Quote:

78% of the nation's jail and prison inmates grew up in a fatherless household, even though only 15% of today's adult population grew up fatherless.

How about listing how many of said 15% go to jail? Because that's a far more interesting statistic.

Also, your first link mentions this as well:

Quote:

In France and Germany cohabiting couples have a slightly lower risk of divorce.

If cohabitation is limited to a person's future spouse, there is no elevated risk of divorce.

Oops!

[Deep Vermillion]

Ah, there we go, though you conveniently left it out of your quote:

Quote:

At any one time, more than 5% of those who grew up fatherless in this country are in prison

Though "78% of inmates" makes it seem like all "fatherless" children are destined to become criminals (as I'm sure the authors of the text would've liked to imply), as it turns out, a staggering 95% of "fatherless" kids will be fine. How about that.

[Wadzworth929]

Deep Vermillion

Flemavenger

Quote:

78% of the nation's jail and prison inmates grew up in a fatherless household, even though only 15% of today's adult population grew up fatherless.

How about listing how many of said 15% go to jail? Because that's a far more interesting statistic.

Also, your first link mentions this as well:

Quote:

In France and Germany cohabiting couples have a slightly lower risk of divorce.

If cohabitation is limited to a person's future spouse, there is no elevated risk of divorce.

Oops!

I'm here to discuss what I believe is truth. I wasn't trying to cover up statistics that might disagree with me.

[Wadzworth929]

Deep Vermillion

Ah, there we go, though you conveniently left it out of your quote:

Quote:

At any one time, more than 5% of those who grew up fatherless in this country are in prison

Though "78% of inmates" makes it seem like all "fatherless" children are destined to become criminals (as I'm sure the authors of the text would've liked to imply), as it turns out, a staggering 95% of "fatherless" kids will be fine. How about that.

Yet you ignore the fact that 78% of inmates grew up fatherless? I never said that fatherless children are destined to go to prison. It should however raise an eyebrow that such are large percentage of inmates were fatherless. 78% versus 15% is a huge contrast.