Premarital Sex - Sin?

[Le Soleil Neigeux]

Flemavenger

Now, in my studies, the Greek word that Young was translating into "whoredom" was "porneia". The modern definition of the word "fornication" is premarital-sex, but "porneia" better means "any form of sexual immorality", which is why Young translated it as whoredom instead of fornication. However, the fact that he translated the scripture in Jeramiah as fornication means he was using the modern definition of fornication, showing that premarital sex is a sin.

However, in verse eight, he refers to the same sexual immorality as adultery, which we have agreed upon as a separate issue.

Words, words, words.

[Le Soleil Neigeux]

Icysnowgirl

Some times I feel that religion was used as another form of law to help keep society in order. By looking at it through that view point, it is easier to see why the ancient people viewed sex before marriage as a sin. It makes it harder to manage people and to ensure that the children that would come from such unions would be cared for. They didn't have birth control and ways to control population as effectively as we do today, so by making sure that people are scared to have sex before marriage, they are better able to ensure that the number of unwanted children stay low. Works fine and dandy in theory, but life and social theory don't always mesh well.

There is a beautiful book that I'm reading, a translation of Amour et mariage that is written by a spiritual leader a few decades ago. He touches upon the idea that it is worse for two people to be married and not love each other but have sex then for a person to have sex with someone they truely and honestly love and aren't married to. He stresses that love was Jesus's ultimate message and that we shouldn't allow ourselves to kill our souls with duty if there is no love.

The defination of words changes over time, is the adultery we think of the same as the adultery that was penned thousands of years ago?

Flemavenger; Where did you get your statistics? And beware of confusing corelation with cause and effect.

Lovely points! Thanks!

[Wadzworth929]

Le Soleil Neigeux

Flemavenger

Le Soleil Neigeux

Sure!

"having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoredom, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil dispositions; whisperers"

Speaking of biases and opinions, it's interesting to take into consideration how much editing the Bible has gone through over the years, what with the Catholic church taking over in Europe and, well, making it say what they wanted... not to mention the King's church... of course, that's a whole different discussion! 3nodding

YLT Jeramiah 3:
6 And Jehovah saith unto me, in the days of Josiah the king, `Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? She is going on every high mountain, and unto the place of every green tree, and committeth fornication there.

KJV - "The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot."

Tag! You're it!

Ima go on to bed! Thanks for the discussion, though! Keep it up! biggrin

Using the same argument isn't going to work here. You must pick one book or the other to trust or distrust. I've shown that both consider fornication to be a sin, though at different specific places.

[Icysnowgirl]

Le Soleil Neigeux

Lovely points! Thanks!

Quite welcome. 3nodding The book's English title is 'Lovers in Marriage' and it is written by Louis Evely.

[Wadzworth929]

Icysnowgirl

Some times I feel that religion was used as another form of law to help keep society in order. By looking at it through that view point, it is easier to see why the ancient people viewed sex before marriage as a sin. It makes it harder to manage people and to ensure that the children that would come from such unions would be cared for. They didn't have birth control and ways to control population as effectively as we do today, so by making sure that people are scared to have sex before marriage, they are better able to ensure that the number of unwanted children stay low. Works fine and dandy in theory, but life and social theory don't always mesh well.

There is a beautiful book that I'm reading, a translation of Amour et mariage that is written by a spiritual leader a few decades ago. He touches upon the idea that it is worse for two people to be married and not love each other but have sex then for a person to have sex with someone they truely and honestly love and aren't married to. He stresses that love was Jesus's ultimate message and that we shouldn't allow ourselves to kill our souls with duty if there is no love.

The defination of words changes over time, is the adultery we think of the same as the adultery that was penned thousands of years ago?

Flemavenger; Where did you get your statistics? And beware of confusing corelation with cause and effect.

I've seen this fact that you are more likely to get a divorce if you lived together before getting married in several different places. The most recent one that comes to mind is a textbook of a friend of mine for her marriage and family class. I could track down someone that gives the same statistic, but it might take some time.

[maenad nuri]

Flemavenger

I've seen this fact that you are more likely to get a divorce if you lived together before getting married in several different places. The most recent one that comes to mind is a textbook of a friend of mine for her marriage and family class. I could track down someone that gives the same statistic, but it might take some time.

I've read the study: It says that if you live together with more than one sexual partner (such as, if my fiancee lived with another girl before me) that's when you get the increased risk of divorce.

If you only live with the person you are going to marry, the risk for divorce is the same as if you don't live together.

However, when I remember looking at the study, I remember thinking, "this seems more like people who live with several people before they get married are more likely to leave bad relationships."

I can't fault that.

[red-ray]

ooo good quwation!... however i dont think that sex outside the marriage is bad as mary of madeline was a prostiture, ywet she was one of jesus closest friends... it is even rumoured that they were married... if sex before marriage was such a problem jesus wouldnt have thought so highly of her

[Black Carpathia]

If you're mature and responsible about it you can have sex with who ever you want, provided there's consent, regardless of marraige or love.

Several religions frown upon sex before marraige. But ultimatly, it's your choice. It doesn't matter what anyone says aslong as you're happy.

[Icysnowgirl]

Flemavenger

I've seen this fact that you are more likely to get a divorce if you lived together before getting married in several different places. The most recent one that comes to mind is a textbook of a friend of mine for her marriage and family class. I could track down someone that gives the same statistic, but it might take some time.

The thing with Statistics is that they can tell you the numbers, but they cannot tell you the story behind the numbers. As Nuri elegantly stated, if a person sees that they are not well fitted to live with this person, they are more likely to leave.

Also, think culturally of the people who do not approve of couples living together before marriage. They also tend to be the cultures that do not support divorce, especially if it to help the woman. Did that textbook give some background information about the Statistic or did it just blindly pushed that number in the text without analyzing the possible reasons why it is?

red-ray

ooo good quwation!... however i dont think that sex outside the marriage is bad as mary of madeline was a prostiture, ywet she was one of jesus closest friends... it is even rumoured that they were married... if sex before marriage was such a problem jesus wouldnt have thought so highly of her

Seems to me that Jesus cared far more about the person's heart then hymen.

[Lady_Amalthea]

Le Soleil Neigeux

captain blue x

u must be marreid to ur wife to have sex if ur not its called fornication. must be marreid i dont support noone.its a sin to have sex before look it up in exodus 20:its in the ten commendments...

Actually premarital sex isn't mentioned in the Ten Commandments... The only mention of sex at all is in verse 14, "You shall not commit adultery." (NIV)

Adultery is defined as, "Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.: (Dictionary.com)

How is adultery any different from pre-marital sex? Both are the same since both involve you cheating on your spouse, since Biblically we are told that sex unites you with someone forever and that someone should only be your spouse

[Lady_Amalthea]

red-ray

ooo good quwation!... however i dont think that sex outside the marriage is bad as mary of madeline was a prostiture, ywet she was one of jesus closest friends... it is even rumoured that they were married... if sex before marriage was such a problem jesus wouldnt have thought so highly of her

Yes, she was a friend of Christ's but she no longer practiced her sexual lifestyle from the moment of meeting Him. It is clearly shown that what she did was sinful but she was forgiven, "sin no more"

[Wadzworth929]

red-ray

ooo good quwation!... however i dont think that sex outside the marriage is bad as mary of madeline was a prostiture, ywet she was one of jesus closest friends... it is even rumoured that they were married... if sex before marriage was such a problem jesus wouldnt have thought so highly of her

She was not a prostitue. These assertions were added into the Bible and were not originally there.

[Icysnowgirl]

Flemavenger

She was not a prostitue. These assertions were added into the Bible and were not originally there.

I'm curious, where did you get this information?

[Wadzworth929]

Icysnowgirl

Flemavenger

She was not a prostitue. These assertions were added into the Bible and were not originally there.

I'm curious, where did you get this information?

That would be Dan Brown, the Davinci Code. Now I do not agree with many of his ideas, but this is one that I do, because he backs himself up well. If she had ever had sex before, she no longer practiced the lifestyle and had repented, the reason Christ was so friendly with her.

[Icysnowgirl]

Flemavenger

Icysnowgirl

Flemavenger

She was not a prostitue. These assertions were added into the Bible and were not originally there.

I'm curious, where did you get this information?

That would be Dan Brown, the Davinci Code. Now I do not agree with many of his ideas, but this is one that I do, because he backs himself up well. If she had ever had sex before, she no longer practiced the lifestyle and had repented, the reason Christ was so friendly with her.

You are using a fictional piece of work to back your claims?

Please tell me you know what fiction is.

How does he back himself up so well? By storytelling? Or are you going to cite the sources he used to come to the conclusion that she wasn't a prositute?