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I really don't know who to reply to this with, so I'll just hope people look...

There's this huge focus being placed on Original Sin, and yeah, I know that's what the topic is, but bear with me?

People have this idea that the Garden was paradise and perfect, but what if it were also a prison?
Do you know me from another account? You sure do know how to bait me out. Oh there is so much I could go on about that.

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Comrade McNasty
Food for thought.

If sin did not exist before Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, then was their act a sin? How could they disobey God (a sin) if there was no sin?
Let me ask a question. How do we know sin did not exist before Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge? What verses or passages suggest this to be the case?

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rmcdra
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I really don't know who to reply to this with, so I'll just hope people look...

There's this huge focus being placed on Original Sin, and yeah, I know that's what the topic is, but bear with me?

People have this idea that the Garden was paradise and perfect, but what if it were also a prison?
Do you know me from another account? You sure do know how to bait me out. Oh there is so much I could go on about that.


Actually, I kind of do XD If you really want to know you can PM me and I'll confess (my sin? ninja )

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rmcdra
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I really don't know who to reply to this with, so I'll just hope people look...

There's this huge focus being placed on Original Sin, and yeah, I know that's what the topic is, but bear with me?

People have this idea that the Garden was paradise and perfect, but what if it were also a prison?
Do you know me from another account? You sure do know how to bait me out. Oh there is so much I could go on about that.


Actually, I kind of do XD If you really want to know you can PM me and I'll confess (my sin? ninja )
Some early Christians did think that the garden of Eden was a prison though more specifically, it was Adam who was supposed to be the prison. Basically when the crafter god claimed there was no one greater than him, boom Adamus, the perfect man appeared. Fearing this being since his appearance pretty much called his bullshit into question, he created an effigy, Adam, in the hopes to trap Adamus in it and basically control and torture the guy. After making the effigy and couldn't get it to move around and he and his friends went off to sulk. The crafter god's mother, Sophia, breathed life into the figure and basically set the gears in motion to turn the crafter's toys against him. This one alternative creation story I'm summarizing, On the Origin of the World, is interesting because it mixes Jewish, Hellenistic, and Egyptian mythos into a unique Christian creation story.

Aged Lunatic

Ah. original sin and generational sin; the reason to never take Christians seriously when they lecture about personal accountability.
Comrade McNasty
Food for thought.

If sin did not exist before Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, then was their act a sin? How could they disobey God (a sin) if there was no sin?


Sin isn't something someone does wrong, or "being bad", it's a state of being separated from YHWH.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit and created a separation between themselves and YHWH. That's what sin is.

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Comrade McNasty
Food for thought.

If sin did not exist before Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, then was their act a sin? How could they disobey God (a sin) if there was no sin?


In other words, if there was only good, how did evil enter the world?

Hexatonic Scale
Sin isn't something someone does wrong, or "being bad", it's a state of being separated from YHWH.

Adam and Eve ate the fruit and created a separation between themselves and YHWH. That's what sin is.

Or maybe it's Jecht. I forget sometimes.


Yes it is. "He sinned against you." It's not simply a state of sin, but also an act. Other words by different people would be vice, transgression, wrongdoing, bad, evil.

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Let's think about that for a moment. They were both completely naive, and, while they could name the creatures and trees of Creation, they didn't really know anything about morality. They were children.


Yahweh is a terrible parent, then. Disobedience wouldn't separate me from my child. It would result me in telling my child that we don't do this or that because such and such consequences.

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Suddenly their eyes were opened and they, in essence, "grew up". As soon as this happened they actually went about creating a physical separation from themselves and YHWH with fig leaves.


Should one, especially a child, be punished so as to be driven out from his or her own home? This is essentially what Yahweh did.

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So before they ate, only YHWH knew morality, and after, all three knew, and this allowed Adam and Eve to contemplate their own thoughts on it, at least one of which is, "being naked is shameful"


In other words, Yahweh wants mindless drones, not children.

rmcdra
Let me ask a question. How do we know sin did not exist before Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge? What verses or passages suggest this to be the case?


Hey, rmcdra. I think Genesis 3 helps support the idea that sin already existed prior to Adam and Eve. Notice that the serpent knows what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil does. He is not omniscient. (I say "he" because the Hebrew is masculine.) Furthermore, the serpent deceived Adam and Eve. Deception is a sinful act. I know people can try breaking this down to say deception isn't always wrong, but considering this case where it involves pain, suffering, and death entering the world, I'd say that kind of deception is the worst.

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Would the serpent then have more of a positive role since he saved humanity? I'm also always confused as to who the serpent is supposed to be, I've heard Satan, Lucifer, God and so on.

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Sir Froggy Midway
Would the serpent then have more of a positive role since he saved humanity? I'm also always confused as to who the serpent is supposed to be, I've heard Satan, Lucifer, God and so on.


Christians would say the serpent didn't save humanity, since disobedience to Yahweh damns individuals.

The serpent is just a serpent. Nothing in Genesis 3 says anything about Lucifer or Satan. Also, Lucifer is just the king of Babylon. (Isa. 14:3, 4)

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