Original Sin

Do you believe in everyone born with the original sin?

Yes	17.4%	[ 12 ]
No	73.9%	[ 51 ]
Not sure	8.7%	[ 6 ]
Total Votes:			[ 69 ]

[Electric duct]

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

You presented nothing but a question, and two simple statements. I hardly think that meets the crieria of a well though tout argument. But to each his own.

The answer to your question would be apparent to anyone that had actually read my post, so I'm assuming that you have not. Therefore we are done.

That's all that was needed. All i did to 'explain' it was make it wordy.

You said that your children thought for themselves because that's what you taught them to do, and that you feel responsible for the bad choices they have made because you think that they wouldn't have made some of these choices if it weren't for you.
You're the only one that would look at that garbled mess of a comparison and think that it was a more well thought out argument then a simple question about an obvious inconsistency.

If your kids think for themselves, then you're not accountable for their actions. If they only think a certain way because you made them think that way, then you are. Stop taking credit for the actions of people capable of defying you.

rolleyes You expect me to get your meaning out a four word sentence, and then can't get the point when it is spelled out for you. Not that it matters, b/c you have just revealed a basic flaw in your argument. Parent's create and raise their children. We do not design them. Therefore you whole comparision is moot anyway.

Just because you spelled it out doesn't mean it makes any sense. You feel responsible for their decisions, because you feel that they only made those decisions because you raised them a certain way, which implies that they can't think for themselves and only act a certain way because they were raised to act that way. On the other hand, you state that you raised them to think for themselves, which implies that their decisions are their own and as such not directly or indirectly influenced by your actions. This is what most people refer to as a contradiction.

And to be perfectly honest, I just use most of your statements against you when I argue with you. You're the one that held Jehova responsible for the actions of Adam and Eve while simultaneously arguing that intent plays a crucial role in responsibility without showing that Jehova intended for Adam and Eve to sin.

And by the way, you'll be hard pressed to present any significant difference between the process of designing something and the act of raising a child. If you bother to think about it. Which you probably won't. Again. As usual.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

You presented nothing but a question, and two simple statements. I hardly think that meets the crieria of a well though tout argument. But to each his own.

The answer to your question would be apparent to anyone that had actually read my post, so I'm assuming that you have not. Therefore we are done.

That's all that was needed. All i did to 'explain' it was make it wordy.

You said that your children thought for themselves because that's what you taught them to do, and that you feel responsible for the bad choices they have made because you think that they wouldn't have made some of these choices if it weren't for you.
You're the only one that would look at that garbled mess of a comparison and think that it was a more well thought out argument then a simple question about an obvious inconsistency.

If your kids think for themselves, then you're not accountable for their actions. If they only think a certain way because you made them think that way, then you are. Stop taking credit for the actions of people capable of defying you.

rolleyes You expect me to get your meaning out a four word sentence, and then can't get the point when it is spelled out for you. Not that it matters, b/c you have just revealed a basic flaw in your argument. Parent's create and raise their children. We do not design them. Therefore you whole comparision is moot anyway.

Just because you spelled it out doesn't mean it makes any sense. You feel responsible for their decisions, because you feel that they only made those decisions because you raised them a certain way, which implies that they can't think for themselves and only act a certain way because they were raised to act that way. On the other hand, you state that you raised them to think for themselves, which implies that their decisions are their own and as such not directly or indirectly influenced by your actions. This is what most people refer to as a contradiction.

And to be perfectly honest, I just use most of your statements against you when I argue with you. You're the one that held Jehova responsible for the actions of Adam and Eve while simultaneously arguing that intent plays a crucial role in responsibility without showing that Jehova intended for Adam and Eve to sin.

And by the way, you'll be hard pressed to present any significant difference between the process of designing something and the act of raising a child. If you bother to think about it. Which you probably won't. Again. As usual.

My, we are touchy today, girl trouble?

Ease up there a bit. I never held Jehovah accountable for Adam and Eve's actions. I called him a right b*****d. And he was for setting them up in a Kobayashi Maru senerio.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

My, we are touchy today, girl trouble?

Ease up there a bit. I never held Jehovah accountable for Adam and Eve's actions. I called him a right b*****d. And he was for setting them up in a Kobayashi Maru senerio.

No, I have mental health problems, I've gone to three wakes so far this year and my brother who is now a father got fired.

I suppose you called him a right b*****d while talking about Adam and Eve's fall because you felt that he was in no way responsible for it? Please. My nephew wouldn't buy that.

[vwytche]

stealthmongoose

vwytche

stealthmongoose

I'm sorry, bit it just dawned on me...


Weathermen existed in egypt.

Diseases, famines, plagues, and so on existed in egypt.

People who studied these things existed in egypt.

Writers and heiroglyphicists existed in egypt.

Slavery existed in egypt.

Magic tricks and early science existed in egypt.

The slaves knew none of these.

As a pharaoh, it would be very easy to fool a leader of the slave community that there was a God, that he would visit plagues on his people, and that each of them was a sign of his will.

I don't mean to be sinister, but what better way to drive a group of rebellious slaves from your land than by telling them that an omnipotent god is after them and everything bad that happens in this country is a sign of it?

As a pharaoh, i wouldn't even need to lift a finger to get them to leave my empire and walk into the wastes of the desert to die.

Wow...you monotheists are some sick ********.

Just saying.

Ah, but you fail to take into account that the leader of this slave community was not a typical member of it. He was raised and educated in the courts of pharoh, so he would have known of all these things.

And so too could he perform these 'miracles' through such knowledge. If you don't mind me adding.

I often wonder how Moses and pharaoh had their dialogues together, both knowing that they were deceiving their people for the sake of what each of them thought was good.

I don't mean to be disingenuous about it, it just seems the most likely course whether or not they agreed with each other.

Oh please add. This is how interesting ideas develop. It certainly does rasie some question as to the power of God vs just prepared illusions.

Possable government conspiracy in the ancient world. I love it.

Of course there's a very good chance that all of this is just mythology anyway.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

My, we are touchy today, girl trouble?

Ease up there a bit. I never held Jehovah accountable for Adam and Eve's actions. I called him a right b*****d. And he was for setting them up in a Kobayashi Maru senerio.

No, I have mental health problems, I've gone to three wakes so far this year and my brother who is now a father got fired.

I suppose you called him a right b*****d while talking about Adam and Eve's fall because you felt that he was in no way responsible for it? Please. My nephew wouldn't buy that.

My condolances on your difficulties.

Yes, I did.

Let me tell you a little story about my nephew. When he was too young to know better he decided to "help" his daddy with his model painting. His father came back in the room later to find his carefully and meticulously finished piece covered with childish blobs of color, beyond redemption, and his son proudly proclaiming, look daddy, I helped.

He was in the middle of bawling the kid out when the child's mother shut him up by asking, "Why didn't you put your things away when you were done with them?"

I trust you see my point.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

My condolances on your difficulties.

Don't feel bad, I was lying.

vwytche

Yes, I did.

Yeah. I don't believe you. Sorry.

vwytche

Let me tell you a little story about my nephew. When he was too young to know better he decided to "help" his daddy with his model painting. His father came back in the room later to find his carefully and meticulously finished piece covered with childish blobs of color, beyond redemption, and his son proudly proclaiming, look daddy, I helped.

He was in the middle of bawling the kid out when the child's mother shut him up by asking, "Why didn't you put your things away when you were done with them?"

I trust you see my point.

Not really, to be honest.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

My condolances on your difficulties.

Don't feel bad, I was lying.

vwytche

Yes, I did.

Yeah. I don't believe you. Sorry.

vwytche

Let me tell you a little story about my nephew. When he was too young to know better he decided to "help" his daddy with his model painting. His father came back in the room later to find his carefully and meticulously finished piece covered with childish blobs of color, beyond redemption, and his son proudly proclaiming, look daddy, I helped.

He was in the middle of bawling the kid out when the child's mother shut him up by asking, "Why didn't you put your things away when you were done with them?"

I trust you see my point.

Not really, to be honest.

I see, well if you're just going to lie for sympathy, make things up, and throw insults than I really don't see the point in continuing. You don't seem to be trying to have a discussion but just be annoying for your own amusment. If I wanted to play that game there's a long list of people here that play it better than you do.

ba-bye

[Electric duct]

vwytche

I see, well if you're just going to lie for sympathy,

If I was lying for sympathy, I probably wouldn't have told you that I was lying.
Kind of defeats the purpose.

vwytche

You don't seem to be trying to have a discussion but just be annoying for your own amusement.

Well, yeah, I gave up trying around the time you decided that I was being lazy because I expected you to think about what was going on.

Have a happy Easter. I know you're not a practicing Christian, but ******** it, it's a holiday, you know?

We get along so much better when I'm not making any kind of effort to talk to you. It's nice.

[HarperLeighTS]

blackheartgirl2

I have a question about original sin in christianity. Assuming that you believe in everyone born with the original sin that came from adam and eve.
Is it correct to say that we inherit the original sin from adam and eve?

The book of Mormon states that we have not, are not, and never will, suffer for the crimes of our fathers. Their sins were their own, and they paid for their sins.

Quote:

and if it is, why didn't god forgive adam and eve? and why should the sin of someone in the past affect you now? do you get the sin of your parents? or grandparents? and if you don't inherit sin from your parents then why do you inherit it from adam and eve?

God did forgive Adam and Eve, just like our parents forgive us for what we do wrong... But the thing of it is, is even if we're forgiven, we've still got to deal with the consequences of our actions, good or bad.

Quote:

and if you do. is it fair? that you be judged for someone elses actions? if my dad murders someone, it is right that i would go to jail for it too? And God is forgiving right? and he loves you? would would a god that forgives and loves you create you with the sin of another person?

See above, respecting that we don't suffer the sins of our fathers.

Quote:

I might have more questions about this topic but this is all for right now. Do you have an answer for me?

smile

[blackheartgirl2]

Zax Strife

blackheartgirl2

I have a question about original sin in christianity. Assuming that you believe in everyone born with the original sin that came from adam and eve.
Is it correct to say that we inherit the original sin from adam and eve?

The book of Mormon states that we have not, are not, and never will, suffer for the crimes of our fathers. Their sins were their own, and they paid for their sins.

Quote:

and if it is, why didn't god forgive adam and eve? and why should the sin of someone in the past affect you now? do you get the sin of your parents? or grandparents? and if you don't inherit sin from your parents then why do you inherit it from adam and eve?

God did forgive Adam and Eve, just like our parents forgive us for what we do wrong... But the thing of it is, is even if we're forgiven, we've still got to deal with the consequences of our actions, good or bad.

Quote:

and if you do. is it fair? that you be judged for someone elses actions? if my dad murders someone, it is right that i would go to jail for it too? And God is forgiving right? and he loves you? would would a god that forgives and loves you create you with the sin of another person?

See above, respecting that we don't suffer the sins of our fathers.

Quote:

I might have more questions about this topic but this is all for right now. Do you have an answer for me?

smile

Thank you very much for your answer biggrin It makes more sense than some of the answers i have been given.

[HarperLeighTS]

blackheartgirl2

Zax Strife

blackheartgirl2

I have a question about original sin in christianity. Assuming that you believe in everyone born with the original sin that came from adam and eve.
Is it correct to say that we inherit the original sin from adam and eve?

The book of Mormon states that we have not, are not, and never will, suffer for the crimes of our fathers. Their sins were their own, and they paid for their sins.

Quote:

and if it is, why didn't god forgive adam and eve? and why should the sin of someone in the past affect you now? do you get the sin of your parents? or grandparents? and if you don't inherit sin from your parents then why do you inherit it from adam and eve?

God did forgive Adam and Eve, just like our parents forgive us for what we do wrong... But the thing of it is, is even if we're forgiven, we've still got to deal with the consequences of our actions, good or bad.

Quote:

and if you do. is it fair? that you be judged for someone elses actions? if my dad murders someone, it is right that i would go to jail for it too? And God is forgiving right? and he loves you? would would a god that forgives and loves you create you with the sin of another person?

See above, respecting that we don't suffer the sins of our fathers.

Quote:

I might have more questions about this topic but this is all for right now. Do you have an answer for me?

smile

Thank you very much for your answer biggrin It makes more sense than some of the answers i have been given.

smile I'm glad it helped. Most people disregard the answers that come from Mormons, and the Book of Mormon, but... There's a lot in the scriptures that clarifies the things that weren't clarified in the Bible. smile It's a good book. I think there's a possibility that if you read it, you'll find even more answers to any questions you have.

[Kurokage Z]

"I will create heaven, man, woman, free will, hell and a snake to talk them into getting the original sin. Later I’ll impregnate a virgin with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I’ll have myself killed as a sacrifice to me, to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to, then I’ll descend into hell and arise to rejoin myself again to watch my imperfect creations face disease, poverty, war, death, eternal damnation” -God

[HarperLeighTS]

GunsmithKitten

Brilliant conversion tool by Christianity, I gotta say; convince someone that even as a BABY they've screwed up enough to piss off God.

sad It's a damn shame, too. If they'd read the Book of Mormon, they'd know that children are free of sin in God's eye, until they reach the age of accountability, when they begin to fully comprehend the differences between morally right and wrong.

[blackheartgirl2]

Zax Strife

sad It's a damn shame, too. If they'd read the Book of Mormon, they'd know that children are free of sin in God's eye, until they reach the age of accountability, when they begin to fully comprehend the differences between morally right and wrong.

That sounds similar to Islam. children are not accountable for their actions (they can't sin) before they hit puberty. Which i think is a very good thing.

I am not really interested in reading the Book of Mormon, but i don't mind learning more about the religion.

[HarperLeighTS]

blackheartgirl2

Zax Strife

sad It's a damn shame, too. If they'd read the Book of Mormon, they'd know that children are free of sin in God's eye, until they reach the age of accountability, when they begin to fully comprehend the differences between morally right and wrong.

That sounds similar to Islam. children are not accountable for their actions (they can't sin) before they hit puberty. Which i think is a very good thing.

I am not really interested in reading the Book of Mormon, but i don't mind learning more about the religion.

smile That's cool, too, at least you're objective and willing to learn.