Original Sin

Do you believe in everyone born with the original sin?

Yes	17.4%	[ 12 ]
No	73.9%	[ 51 ]
Not sure	8.7%	[ 6 ]
Total Votes:			[ 69 ]

[The Forbidden Soul]

Im not a christian, nor am I going to answer all your questions whatsoever...but Ill tell you something my sister always told me when I was young.
"Eve ate the forbidden fruit, thats why women have the monthly curse."

[GunsmithKitten]

The Forbidden Soul

Im not a christian, nor am I going to answer all your questions whatsoever...but Ill tell you something my sister always told me when I was young.
"Eve ate the forbidden fruit, thats why women have the monthly curse."

Becuase as anyone with half a lick of sense in human anatomy or biology knows, it's not like that "curse" serves a useful biological function at all, right?
rolleyes

Also, as divine curses go, it's not that bad, especially when there are means to deal with it.

[The Forbidden Soul]

GunsmithKitten

The Forbidden Soul

Im not a christian, nor am I going to answer all your questions whatsoever...but Ill tell you something my sister always told me when I was young.
"Eve ate the forbidden fruit, thats why women have the monthly curse."

Becuase as anyone with half a lick of sense in human anatomy or biology knows, it's not like that "curse" serves a useful biological function at all, right?
rolleyes

Also, as divine curses go, it's not that bad, especially when there are means to deal with it.

Welp, I didnt say it. I just thought ide share it. Personally I dont believe any of this s**t.
And yuh it does serve a purpose. I dont even have mine anymore. emotion_awesome

[Electric duct]

GunsmithKitten

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......

I find it hard to believe that a god who couldn't save the Israelites from iron chariots is omnipotent.

Not that it honestly matters, considering this may be the only time you've ever held someone responsible for not acting in your entire life. I doubt you go to bed thinking about all the starving African children you might have saved by donating some of whatever money you make, or that a homeless man went without dinner that night because you haven't helped out at your local soup kitchen.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

You presented nothing but a question, and two simple statements. I hardly think that meets the crieria of a well though tout argument. But to each his own.

The answer to your question would be apparent to anyone that had actually read my post, so I'm assuming that you have not. Therefore we are done.

That's all that was needed. All i did to 'explain' it was make it wordy.

You said that your children thought for themselves because that's what you taught them to do, and that you feel responsible for the bad choices they have made because you think that they wouldn't have made some of these choices if it weren't for you.
You're the only one that would look at that garbled mess of a comparison and think that it was a more well thought out argument then a simple question about an obvious inconsistency.

If your kids think for themselves, then you're not accountable for their actions. If they only think a certain way because you made them think that way, then you are. Stop taking credit for the actions of people capable of defying you.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

You presented nothing but a question, and two simple statements. I hardly think that meets the crieria of a well though tout argument. But to each his own.

The answer to your question would be apparent to anyone that had actually read my post, so I'm assuming that you have not. Therefore we are done.

That's all that was needed. All i did to 'explain' it was make it wordy.

You said that your children thought for themselves because that's what you taught them to do, and that you feel responsible for the bad choices they have made because you think that they wouldn't have made some of these choices if it weren't for you.
You're the only one that would look at that garbled mess of a comparison and think that it was a more well thought out argument then a simple question about an obvious inconsistency.

If your kids think for themselves, then you're not accountable for their actions. If they only think a certain way because you made them think that way, then you are. Stop taking credit for the actions of people capable of defying you.

rolleyes You expect me to get your meaning out a four word sentence, and then can't get the point when it is spelled out for you. Not that it matters, b/c you have just revealed a basic flaw in your argument. Parent's create and raise their children. We do not design them. Therefore you whole comparision is moot anyway.

[GunsmithKitten]

Electric duct

GunsmithKitten

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......

I find it hard to believe that a god who couldn't save the Israelites from iron chariots is omnipotent.

Not that it honestly matters, considering this may be the only time you've ever held someone responsible for not acting in your entire life. I doubt you go to bed thinking about all the starving African children you might have saved by donating some of whatever money you make, or that a homeless man went without dinner that night because you haven't helped out at your local soup kitchen.

If I was omnipotent, or even had half the powers that Jehova had, I might.

But as I am not, no, I don't.

Very interesting, btw, that you invoke Deuteronomical history, as that has one of the best examples of Jehova being able to divinely override Free Will, namely he did so to make sure that Israel's enemies pursued a hopeless war instead of sue for peace.

[vwytche]

GunsmithKitten

Electric duct

GunsmithKitten

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......

I find it hard to believe that a god who couldn't save the Israelites from iron chariots is omnipotent.

Not that it honestly matters, considering this may be the only time you've ever held someone responsible for not acting in your entire life. I doubt you go to bed thinking about all the starving African children you might have saved by donating some of whatever money you make, or that a homeless man went without dinner that night because you haven't helped out at your local soup kitchen.

If I was omnipotent, or even had half the powers that Jehova had, I might.

But as I am not, no, I don't.

Very interesting, btw, that you invoke Deuteronomical history, as that has one of the best examples of Jehova being able to divinely override Free Will, namely he did so to make sure that Israel's enemies pursued a hopeless war instead of sue for peace.

Oh, I thought you were going to bring up the God hardened pharoh's heart thing. You know, so he could keep throwing plagues at the general population and drive the point of his power that much more home.

[GunsmithKitten]

vwytche

GunsmithKitten

Electric duct

GunsmithKitten

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......

I find it hard to believe that a god who couldn't save the Israelites from iron chariots is omnipotent.

Not that it honestly matters, considering this may be the only time you've ever held someone responsible for not acting in your entire life. I doubt you go to bed thinking about all the starving African children you might have saved by donating some of whatever money you make, or that a homeless man went without dinner that night because you haven't helped out at your local soup kitchen.

If I was omnipotent, or even had half the powers that Jehova had, I might.

But as I am not, no, I don't.

Very interesting, btw, that you invoke Deuteronomical history, as that has one of the best examples of Jehova being able to divinely override Free Will, namely he did so to make sure that Israel's enemies pursued a hopeless war instead of sue for peace.

Oh, I thought you were going to bring up the God hardened pharoh's heart thing. You know, so he could keep throwing plagues at the general population and drive the point of his power that much more home.

Think about it; Egypt survived those ordeals.

God's little act of mind control over the tribes that were on the "promised land"? They did not survive those.

[vwytche]

GunsmithKitten

vwytche

GunsmithKitten

Electric duct

GunsmithKitten

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......

I find it hard to believe that a god who couldn't save the Israelites from iron chariots is omnipotent.

Not that it honestly matters, considering this may be the only time you've ever held someone responsible for not acting in your entire life. I doubt you go to bed thinking about all the starving African children you might have saved by donating some of whatever money you make, or that a homeless man went without dinner that night because you haven't helped out at your local soup kitchen.

If I was omnipotent, or even had half the powers that Jehova had, I might.

But as I am not, no, I don't.

Very interesting, btw, that you invoke Deuteronomical history, as that has one of the best examples of Jehova being able to divinely override Free Will, namely he did so to make sure that Israel's enemies pursued a hopeless war instead of sue for peace.

Oh, I thought you were going to bring up the God hardened pharoh's heart thing. You know, so he could keep throwing plagues at the general population and drive the point of his power that much more home.

Think about it; Egypt survived those ordeals.

God's little act of mind control over the tribes that were on the "promised land"? They did not survive those.

Alot of Egyptian first born sons did not survive, but as a culture yes. But why is that apoint? I thought we were discussing Jehovah over riding free will. Does the out come really change that he both can and will?

[vwytche]

stealthmongoose

I'm sorry, bit it just dawned on me...


Weathermen existed in egypt.

Diseases, famines, plagues, and so on existed in egypt.

People who studied these things existed in egypt.

Writers and heiroglyphicists existed in egypt.

Slavery existed in egypt.

Magic tricks and early science existed in egypt.

The slaves knew none of these.

As a pharaoh, it would be very easy to fool a leader of the slave community that there was a God, that he would visit plagues on his people, and that each of them was a sign of his will.

I don't mean to be sinister, but what better way to drive a group of rebellious slaves from your land than by telling them that an omnipotent god is after them and everything bad that happens in this country is a sign of it?

As a pharaoh, i wouldn't even need to lift a finger to get them to leave my empire and walk into the wastes of the desert to die.

Wow...you monotheists are some sick ********.

Just saying.

Ah, but you fail to take into account that the leader of this slave community was not a typical member of it. He was raised and educated in the courts of pharoh, so he would have known of all these things.

[stealthmongoose]

vwytche

stealthmongoose

I'm sorry, bit it just dawned on me...


Weathermen existed in egypt.

Diseases, famines, plagues, and so on existed in egypt.

People who studied these things existed in egypt.

Writers and heiroglyphicists existed in egypt.

Slavery existed in egypt.

Magic tricks and early science existed in egypt.

The slaves knew none of these.

As a pharaoh, it would be very easy to fool a leader of the slave community that there was a God, that he would visit plagues on his people, and that each of them was a sign of his will.

I don't mean to be sinister, but what better way to drive a group of rebellious slaves from your land than by telling them that an omnipotent god is after them and everything bad that happens in this country is a sign of it?

As a pharaoh, i wouldn't even need to lift a finger to get them to leave my empire and walk into the wastes of the desert to die.

Wow...you monotheists are some sick ********.

Just saying.

Ah, but you fail to take into account that the leader of this slave community was not a typical member of it. He was raised and educated in the courts of pharoh, so he would have known of all these things.

And so too could he perform these 'miracles' through such knowledge. If you don't mind me adding.

I often wonder how Moses and pharaoh had their dialogues together, both knowing that they were deceiving their people for the sake of what each of them thought was good.

I don't mean to be disingenuous about it, it just seems the most likely course whether or not they agreed with each other.

[bearcatthorin]

stealthmongoose

vwytche

stealthmongoose

I'm sorry, bit it just dawned on me...


Weathermen existed in egypt.

Diseases, famines, plagues, and so on existed in egypt.

People who studied these things existed in egypt.

Writers and heiroglyphicists existed in egypt.

Slavery existed in egypt.

Magic tricks and early science existed in egypt.

The slaves knew none of these.

As a pharaoh, it would be very easy to fool a leader of the slave community that there was a God, that he would visit plagues on his people, and that each of them was a sign of his will.

I don't mean to be sinister, but what better way to drive a group of rebellious slaves from your land than by telling them that an omnipotent god is after them and everything bad that happens in this country is a sign of it?

As a pharaoh, i wouldn't even need to lift a finger to get them to leave my empire and walk into the wastes of the desert to die.

Wow...you monotheists are some sick ********.

Just saying.

Ah, but you fail to take into account that the leader of this slave community was not a typical member of it. He was raised and educated in the courts of pharoh, so he would have known of all these things.

And so too could he perform these 'miracles' through such knowledge. If you don't mind me adding.

I often wonder how Moses and pharaoh had their dialogues together, both knowing that they were deceiving their people for the sake of what each of them thought was good.

I don't mean to be disingenuous about it, it just seems the most likely course whether or not they agreed with each other.

Well I don't know about Pharaoh but Moses had a lot to gain, he became the absolute leader of an entire people even if they were nomads after they left Egypt. Didn't he also murder an Egyptian? Or was that just in the movie?

[Electric duct]

GunsmithKitten

If I was omnipotent, or even had half the powers that Jehova had, I might.

But as I am not, no, I don't.

Believe it or not, all of the people that do exactly that don't have half the powers of Jehova. Just saying.

GunsmithKitten

Very interesting, btw, that you invoke Deuteronomical history, as that has one of the best examples of Jehova being able to divinely override Free Will, namely he did so to make sure that Israel's enemies pursued a hopeless war instead of sue for peace.

I don't really care.