Original Sin

Do you believe in everyone born with the original sin?

Yes	17.4%	[ 12 ]
No	73.9%	[ 51 ]
Not sure	8.7%	[ 6 ]
Total Votes:			[ 69 ]

[Mowata]

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

They were not afterward. The whole "perfection", definition is applied because when they were created, they had never once sinned. Not in any way ,shape or form. So they were perfect. They were created as perfect beings, without sin, and more or less had the decision to screw it all up., which they did.

[vwytche]

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

[lanlee]

I don't know about the religious perspective, but in terms of science, it makes partial sense that one should inherit another's sin. A sin could be thought of as a negative tendency... which could be genetic....
Most of the things labeled "sin" had, at some point, an evolutionary advantage to them.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

That's not point. We were made capable of it. If you raise a child in such a way, through severe abuse, or instilling of negative traits, that they are capable of murder than you share the responsability. What does it matter whether the parents intended the son to commit murder?

[Electric duct]

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

That's not point.

It is the point.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

That's not point.

It is the point.

So, that's it? No exspansion. No defense of your viewpoint. We're just going to spam the thread with a ping pong game?

Is not

This would be your cue to either say is to, or perhaps actually say something with some content.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If they intentionally went out of their way to create a monster, than yes.

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

That's not point.

It is the point.

So, that's it? No exspansion. No defense of your viewpoint. We're just going to spam the thread with a ping pong game?

Is not

This would be your cue to either say is to, or perhaps actually say something with some content.

If it isn't the point, if all that matters is that what was created was imperfect and capable of horrors that few could imagine, then what does it matter that the parents tried to raise their children right? Parents aren't perfect, they make mistakes when raising their kids, and given the natural imperfections within their genome all children are capable of sin, meaning the only logical conclusion is that parents are all responsible for the sins of their children, regardless of who any of them are or what any of them did to or for one another.

If it is the point, if the intent does actually matter, then why would one hold a spiritual father guilty for the crimes of his children? Unless Jehovah intentionally made Adam and Eve so that they would sin, it's easy enough to point out that their actions are their own and that Jehovah shouldn't necessarily be held responsible.

And by the way, there was no need to clarify. It was all right there, and all you had to do was read it and think about it for, say, three minutes.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

vwytche

Electric duct

Did Jehovah intend for humans to sin?

That's not point.

It is the point.

So, that's it? No exspansion. No defense of your viewpoint. We're just going to spam the thread with a ping pong game?

Is not

This would be your cue to either say is to, or perhaps actually say something with some content.

If it isn't the point, if all that matters is that what was created was imperfect and capable of horrors that few could imagine, then what does it matter that the parents tried to raise their children right? Parents aren't perfect, they make mistakes when raising their kids, and given the natural imperfections within their genome all children are capable of sin, meaning the only logical conclusion is that parents are all responsible for the sins of their children, regardless of who any of them are or what any of them did to or for one another.

If it is the point, if the intent does actually matter, then why would one hold a spiritual father guilty for the crimes of his children? Unless Jehovah intentionally made Adam and Eve so that they would sin, it's easy enough to point out that their actions are their own and that Jehovah shouldn't necessarily be held responsible.

And by the way, there was no need to clarify. It was all right there, and all you had to do was read it and think about it for, say, three minutes.

Why should I have to think out your argument for you? Take some responsability.

I raised my girls to think for themselves. And they took that and made some choices I disapproved of highly. But I never got angry with them for making their own choices. And I never lost sight of the fact that is was ME that raised them not to let me or anyone else do their thinking for them.

Now yes, I would be happier if I wasn't watching them struggle to get out of situations they wouldn't have gotten into if they had heeded my advice. And yes, I have given in to the urge to say , if you had only listened to me. The fact remains they were their choices to make. I may not like what they did, but it's on me that they had the gumption to do it.

[Electric duct]

vwytche

Why should I have to think out your argument for you?

Because I already thought it out and presented it, and you have no other way to understand what my argument is.

If you'd rather not bother thinking about another person's argument, then why are you here? Whether or not you want to, you have to think about what someone else is saying in order to properly respond to it.

If you can't do that, leave. The frustration you'll cause yourself isn't worth your time.

vwytche

I raised my girls to think for themselves. And they took that and made some choices I disapproved of highly. But I never got angry with them for making their own choices. And I never lost sight of the fact that is was ME that raised them not to let me or anyone else do their thinking for them.
Now yes, I would be happier if I wasn't watching them struggle to get out of situations they wouldn't have gotten into if they had heeded my advice. And yes, I have given in to the urge to say , if you had only listened to me. The fact remains they were their choices to make. I may not like what they did, but it's on me that they had the gumption to do it.

Do your children think for themselves, or are they simply automatons you programmed?

[deadmanjesse]

Electric duct

Because I already thought it out and presented it, and you have no other way to understand what my argument is.

If you'd rather not bother thinking about another person's argument, then why are you here? Whether or not you want to, you have to think about what someone else is saying in order to properly respond to it.

If you can't do that, leave. The frustration you'll cause yourself isn't worth your time.

Based on her post history that seems to be her MO.

[vwytche]

Electric duct

vwytche

Why should I have to think out your argument for you?

Because I already thought it out and presented it, and you have no other way to understand what my argument is.

If you'd rather not bother thinking about another person's argument, then why are you here? Whether or not you want to, you have to think about what someone else is saying in order to properly respond to it.

If you can't do that, leave. The frustration you'll cause yourself isn't worth your time.

vwytche

I raised my girls to think for themselves. And they took that and made some choices I disapproved of highly. But I never got angry with them for making their own choices. And I never lost sight of the fact that is was ME that raised them not to let me or anyone else do their thinking for them.
Now yes, I would be happier if I wasn't watching them struggle to get out of situations they wouldn't have gotten into if they had heeded my advice. And yes, I have given in to the urge to say , if you had only listened to me. The fact remains they were their choices to make. I may not like what they did, but it's on me that they had the gumption to do it.

Do your children think for themselves, or are they simply automatons you programmed?

You presented nothing but a question, and two simple statements. I hardly think that meets the crieria of a well though tout argument. But to each his own.

The answer to your question would be apparent to anyone that had actually read my post, so I'm assuming that you have not. Therefore we are done.

[GunsmithKitten]

Electric duct

vwytche

blackheartgirl2

Mowata

Majnooni

Yes and no...

I don't think of it in a legalistic way. That is, original "sin" but not inherited guilt. The idea of an inherited sinful nature, to me, is not about being guilty because of something other people did (by legalistic, I mean the idea of being born with a debt that needs to be paid). What is inherited is a distorted nature. This makes more sense to me... after all, nobody is directly responsible in terms of guilt for the mistakes of their parents, but your parents mistakes still affect who you are as a person and your life.

I hope that makes sense. If not, feel free to ask.

This, more or less. We aren't guiltily of the sins of Adam and Eve, however the repercussions of their sin has, sadly, caused us all to be born into sin. That is to say, we are no longer perfect and are sinful in nature.

But adam and eve could not have been perfect then either because they sinned.

So Jehovah made them imperfect and then punished them for it. Jehovah's a right b*****d.

Should Ted Bundy's parents have been held accountable for his actions?

If Ted's parents were omnipotent and had the ability to change their son's behavior at any time they wanted, yes.

And oh please...OH PLEASE....use the free will argument. I dare you......