Niqab, Hijab, or nothing

[Mowata]

XxHinataHyugaClanxX

Mowata

XxHinataHyugaClanxX

-- Always keep Allah in your heart --

Im Muslim biggrin Yay meee! Anyways, I love love LOVE wearing the hijab ~!
I feel more comfortable wearing a hijab than a nijab because nijab isn't necessary
for a young individual like myself in U.S. I only wear a nijab when I visit my country because it
is expected for young women above 16 or so to wear one. In Islam the women's
body is the thing that should be covered not necessarily the face or hands. If your a Muslim
women in America wearing a nijab then people will mistakenly think that your a terrorist and
be afraid of you! So that means I wear a HIJAB in America and not a NIJAB. I tend to see
young "Muslim" women at my high school who wear a hijab but wear skin tight jeans and shirt.
Like seriously whats the point of wearing a hijab if your exposing your body figure! Well it
isn't my business but how dare they call themselves Muslims! It really annoys me...Sorry if I talk too much D: I ♥ you my Muslim brothers and sisters!

-- No matter the time or place --

So.. my Muslim friends that choose not to wear a hijab have no right to call themselves Muslims? I'll pass that along.

No they could call themselves Muslims and I couldn't care less. In Islam young women MUST cover their hair. Maybe your Muslim friends don't like the idea of covering their hair and they might not get used to it. It's their choice and wearing the hijab is a part of life for Muslim girls. I'm going to ask you a question. If someone looked at me ( with a hijab) and looked at another Muslim girl ( with no hijab) which girl would that person think is Muslim?
The hijab can help with identifying that your a Muslim woman. You want to show the world that you are a Muslim and that your proud of it. That's why I love it! biggrin

No offense, but that honestly made me laugh. Hard.

Wearing a hijab doesn't make you any more of a muslim than standing in a garage makes you a car. Unless wearing a hijab is the only thing to being a female muslim, then I stand corrected. If I looked at you with a hijab then I would assume that you were a muslim, yes, but if you acted in a way that was against your religion, then I would just as quickly assume that you weren't really sincere in your beliefs.

It must not be THAT mandatory because there are numerous devoted muslim females that choose not to wear the hijab, my friends included. I personally think it means more when you know someone's faith by how they act and not the colorful scarf they wear day in and day out, but that's just me.

[Haha Coffee]

Mowata

XxHinataHyugaClanxX

Mowata

XxHinataHyugaClanxX

-- Always keep Allah in your heart --

Im Muslim biggrin Yay meee! Anyways, I love love LOVE wearing the hijab ~!
I feel more comfortable wearing a hijab than a nijab because nijab isn't necessary
for a young individual like myself in U.S. I only wear a nijab when I visit my country because it
is expected for young women above 16 or so to wear one. In Islam the women's
body is the thing that should be covered not necessarily the face or hands. If your a Muslim
women in America wearing a nijab then people will mistakenly think that your a terrorist and
be afraid of you! So that means I wear a HIJAB in America and not a NIJAB. I tend to see
young "Muslim" women at my high school who wear a hijab but wear skin tight jeans and shirt.
Like seriously whats the point of wearing a hijab if your exposing your body figure! Well it
isn't my business but how dare they call themselves Muslims! It really annoys me...Sorry if I talk too much D: I ♥ you my Muslim brothers and sisters!

-- No matter the time or place --

So.. my Muslim friends that choose not to wear a hijab have no right to call themselves Muslims? I'll pass that along.

No they could call themselves Muslims and I couldn't care less. In Islam young women MUST cover their hair. Maybe your Muslim friends don't like the idea of covering their hair and they might not get used to it. It's their choice and wearing the hijab is a part of life for Muslim girls. I'm going to ask you a question. If someone looked at me ( with a hijab) and looked at another Muslim girl ( with no hijab) which girl would that person think is Muslim?
The hijab can help with identifying that your a Muslim woman. You want to show the world that you are a Muslim and that your proud of it. That's why I love it! biggrin

No offense, but that honestly made me laugh. Hard.

Wearing a hijab doesn't make you any more of a muslim than standing in a garage makes you a car. Unless wearing a hijab is the only thing to being a female muslim, then I stand corrected. If I looked at you with a hijab then I would assume that you were a muslim, yes, but if you acted in a way that was against your religion, then I would just as quickly assume that you weren't really sincere in your beliefs.

It must not be THAT mandatory because there are numerous devoted muslim females that choose not to wear the hijab, my friends included. I personally think it means more when you know someone's faith by how they act and not the colorful scarf they wear day in and day out, but that's just me.

However it "is" that mandatory, I have no doubt that your friends are otherwise well rounded, and pracitcing Muslims in other aspects however ignoring a mandatory part of your faith is sinful and dangerous.

It's no different than saying "Well Im a Muslim...but I drink Alcohol" or "Im a Muslim but I don't pray five times a day" or "Im a Muslim but I don't really regard the Qur'an"

All these thing's are aspects that are Mandatory acts that the omission of which endangers one and puts there Islam into question.

Such as if a woman were to say "Im a Muslim...but I don't wear a Hijab"

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

However it "is" that mandatory, I have no doubt that your friends are otherwise well rounded, and pracitcing Muslims in other aspects however ignoring a mandatory part of your faith is sinful and dangerous.

There's a valid argument that hijab is not mandatory, because the only place that covering hair is explicitly mentioned is in a questionably-sourced hadith. For instance, see this article.

The prohibition against alcohol and the requirement of salat are both in the Quran. They're not really comparable to hijab.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

However it "is" that mandatory, I have no doubt that your friends are otherwise well rounded, and pracitcing Muslims in other aspects however ignoring a mandatory part of your faith is sinful and dangerous.

There's a valid argument that hijab is not mandatory, because the only place that covering hair is explicitly mentioned is in a questionably-sourced hadith. For instance, see this article.

The prohibition against alcohol and the requirement of salat are both in the Quran. They're not really comparable to hijab.

The problem with that Artical, is it is only talking about one Hadith, and ignoring other Hadith which directly deal with the Hijab and are exceptionally strong.

The Author further neglects to mention that any Hadith Abu Dawud did include in his Collection he deemed to be completely authentic and useable for Shariah.

In fact he chose 5000 Hadith out of close to 500'000, these were the best of the best, the firmest of the firm. His entire Hadith collection was primarilly focused around the area of Legislation.

People who try to argue that the Hijab is not mandatory, are no better than those that argue that Islam supports Suicide Bombing.

Both grossly twist what Islam does and does not prescribe.

There is no valid argument for the Hijab not being mandatory, no major school of learning, school of thought, Islamic Academic institution or scholar of any renown has found it to be so from Mohammed(pbuh) to the modern day Univeristys of Cairo, Mecca or Medina.

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

The problem with that Artical, is it is only talking about one Hadith, and ignoring other Hadith which directly deal with the Hijab and are exceptionally strong.

Which hadith are those? I've never seen others cited, except for ones that deal generally with modesty.

EDIT: BTW, there are Islamic scholars who say that hair covering is optional. For example, Javed Ahmed Ghamidi who founded the Islamic research center Al-Mawrid in Pakistan, has written that hair covering is optional (though preferable) and is guided by general proclamations to engage in modesty rather than any specific requirement to cover the hair.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

The problem with that Artical, is it is only talking about one Hadith, and ignoring other Hadith which directly deal with the Hijab and are exceptionally strong.

Which hadith are those? I've never seen others cited, except for ones that deal generally with modesty.

EDIT: BTW, there are Islamic scholars who say that hair covering is optional. For example, Javed Ahmed Ghamidi who founded the Islamic research center Al-Mawrid in Pakistan, has written that hair covering is optional (though preferable) and is guided by general proclamations to engage in modesty rather than any specific requirement to cover the hair.

I edited my previous post browse through it while I bring up other Hadith.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

The problem with that Artical, is it is only talking about one Hadith, and ignoring other Hadith which directly deal with the Hijab and are exceptionally strong.

Which hadith are those? I've never seen others cited, except for ones that deal generally with modesty.

EDIT: BTW, there are Islamic scholars who say that hair covering is optional. For example, Javed Ahmed Ghamidi who founded the Islamic research center Al-Mawrid in Pakistan, has written that hair covering is optional (though preferable) and is guided by general proclamations to engage in modesty rather than any specific requirement to cover the hair.

We must first remember The khimar (pl. khumur) actually refers to the head covering, so that a better translation of 24:31 would be: "and to draw their headcovers (khumurihinna) over their bosoms..." (24:31)

This is made kown by Hadith examples such as

Quote:

...I could hear the sound of water. She washed herself and wore her robe (dir') and headcover (khimâr)....

as well as other Arabic Literatrue from both then and now.

Quote:

Ayesha (rad.i-Allahu `anha) said: "By Allah, I never saw any women better than the women of the Ansar (i.e. the women of Madina) or stronger in their confirmation of Allah's Book! When Sura al-Nur was revealed -- "and to draw their 'khumur' over their bosoms" (24:31) -- their men went back to them reciting to them what Allah had revealed to them, each man reciting it to his wife, daughter, sister, and relative. Not one woman among them remained except she got up on the spot, tore up her waist-wrap and covered herself from head-to-toe (i`jtajarat) with it. They prayed the very next dawn prayer covered from head to toe (mu`tajirat)."

Bolded for Emphasis

We also have

Quote:

'A'isha radi Allahu anha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." (Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6:282

And

Quote:

Narrated 'A'isha radi Allahu anha who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.” (Hadith - Recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and ibn Majah, Narrated 'A'isha. [In his work Jilbab al-Marah al-Muslimah, al-Albani states (p. 10 cool that it is hasan due to corroborating evidence. Also, in a narration from Asma {who was not the wife of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam), Asma also covered her face at all times in front of men.)

And

Quote:

1 – It was narrated from Safiyyah bint Shaybah that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) used to say: When these words were revealed – “and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)” – they took their izaars (a kind of garment) and tore them from the edges and covered their faces with them.
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4481.

And

Quote:

The following version was narrated by Abu Dawood (4102):

May Allaah have mercy on the Muhaajir women. When Allaah revealed the words “and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)”, they tore the thickest of their aprons (a kind of garment) and covered their faces with them.

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

The Author further neglects to mention that any Hadith Abu Dawud did include in his Collection he deemed to be completely authentic and useable for Shariah.

In fact he chose 5000 Hadith out of close to 500'000, these were the best of the best, the firmest of the firm. His entire Hadith collection was primarilly focused around the area of Legislation.

Actually, the use of hadith from Sunnah Abu Dawud has come under controvery before, because he concluded that some hadith were authentic without explaining why or providing an isnad. In Kitab al-Marasil, he came to the conclusion that hundreds of mursal hadith were authentic. Abu Dawud's works are not considered to be among the best collections of hadith for that reason, and numerous Islamic scholars have chosen not to rely on his hadith unless a chain of narration with trustworthy narrators is provided.

[fyeee]

Assalamualaikum. I am a Muslim, and frankly, probably too young to give opinion here but hear me out. I wear hijab, and respect those who wore niqab. Maybe I shall wear it too someday, who knows? Regarding the current argument, some of my friends don't wear hijab, and they are Muslims. I live somewhere in Asia, you can probably guess my country by now. From what I have learnt, it is a must to cover your aurat as a Muslim woman. A hijab is a form of covering aurat. Therefore it is compulsory to cover your hair, whatever the method is. That is my basic understanding. I have to say that just because someone don't wear hijab, it doesn't make them a less Muslim. But by covering your aurat, you have fulfilled what Allah had wished us to do (am not sure how to translate that well but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say). But then, I am still young and learning, but this is my interpretation on wearing hijab or niqab.

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

We must first remember The khimar (pl. khumur) actually refers to the head covering, so that a better translation of 24:31 would be: "and to draw their headcovers (khumurihinna) over their bosoms..." (24:31)

We can't be sure that refers to "head covering," specifically. Khimar just means a cover or a garment, and from other works from the time seems to have been used to also refer to robes or cloaks. The use of these verses to show that women were encouraged to wear head covers, specifically, is a more modern interpretation.

Quote:

The word “khimar” comes from the root word khamara which means “to cover,” so anything that covers anything is a khimar. Wine in Arabic is called “khamra”, because it covers the brain and makes one lose his or her ability to think correctly. A curtain is a khimar because it covers a window, a tablecloth is a khimar because it covers a table, a dress is a khimar because it covers the body (any dress is considered a khimar; khimar is not limited to a head cover). A blanket can be used as a khimar, a shawl is a khimar, etc. Most of the translators, influenced by Hadith translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.

From Masjid Tuscon's website on female dress code in Islam

Haha Coffee

We also have

Quote:

'A'isha radi Allahu anha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." (Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6:282

Narrated 'A'isha radi Allahu anha who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.” (Hadith - Recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and ibn Majah, Narrated 'A'isha. [In his work Jilbab al-Marah al-Muslimah, al-Albani states (p. 10 cool that it is hasan due to corroborating evidence. Also, in a narration from Asma {who was not the wife of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam), Asma also covered her face at all times in front of men.)

These hadith are often pointed to in support of mandatory niqab. You had previously said that you didn't think niqab was necessary:

Haha Coffee

However, as my part as a man, I see Hijab as mandatory clothing that should be worn, but I detest Niqab weather the woman chooses to wear it or not.

??

The translation in these hadith you've just cited which state that the women covered their faces depends on a translation of khimar which mandates coverage of the face (from a website which argues that niqab is fard).

So the interpretation of whether face covering or hair covering (or neither) is necessary depends wholly on what interpretation of khimar is being used. That's why reasonable minds can differ, and different Islamic scholars have come to different conclusions.

And if reasonable interpretations can differ, then I argue that demonstrates that neither face nor hair covering is fard; if it were necessary, then the Quran would be clear.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

We must first remember The khimar (pl. khumur) actually refers to the head covering, so that a better translation of 24:31 would be: "and to draw their headcovers (khumurihinna) over their bosoms..." (24:31)

We can't be sure that refers to "head covering," specifically. Khimar just means a cover or a garment, and from other works from the time seems to have been used to also refer to robes or cloaks. The use of these verses to show that women were encouraged to wear head covers, specifically, is a more modern interpretation.

Quote:

The word “khimar” comes from the root word khamara which means “to cover,” so anything that covers anything is a khimar. Wine in Arabic is called “khamra”, because it covers the brain and makes one lose his or her ability to think correctly. A curtain is a khimar because it covers a window, a tablecloth is a khimar because it covers a table, a dress is a khimar because it covers the body (any dress is considered a khimar; khimar is not limited to a head cover). A blanket can be used as a khimar, a shawl is a khimar, etc. Most of the translators, influenced by Hadith translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.

From Masjid Tuscon's website on female dress code in Islam

Haha Coffee

We also have

Quote:

'A'isha radi Allahu anha used to say: "When (the Verse): 'They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms,' was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces." (Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6:282

Narrated 'A'isha radi Allahu anha who said, "The riders would pass us while we were with the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam). When they got close to us, we would draw our outer cloak from our heads over our faces. When they passed by, we would uncover our faces.” (Hadith - Recorded by Ahmad, Abu Dawud and ibn Majah, Narrated 'A'isha. [In his work Jilbab al-Marah al-Muslimah, al-Albani states (p. 10 cool that it is hasan due to corroborating evidence. Also, in a narration from Asma {who was not the wife of Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam), Asma also covered her face at all times in front of men.)

These hadith are often pointed to in support of mandatory niqab. You had previously said that you didn't think niqab was necessary:

My opinion has changed over the past few days.

I now view it as a completely valid choice on par with the Hijab if a woman desires it.

Haha Coffee

However, as my part as a man, I see Hijab as mandatory clothing that should be worn, but I detest Niqab weather the woman chooses to wear it or not.

??

My opinion has changed over the past few days.

I now view it as a completely valid choice on par with the Hijab if a woman desires it.

Gothic-Sweetheart, and a few other sisters I have been talking to swayed my opinion.

Quote:

The translation in these hadith you've just cited which state that the women covered their faces depends on a translation of khimar which mandates coverage of the face (from a website which argues that niqab is fard).

So the interpretation of whether face covering or hair covering (or neither) is necessary depends wholly on what interpretation of khimar is being used. That's why reasonable minds can differ, and different Islamic scholars have come to different conclusions.

And if reasonable interpretations can differ, then I argue that demonstrates that neither face nor hair covering is fard; if it were necessary, then the Quran would be clear.

I would say far more evidence is in favour of the meaning being face veil, and to the Hijabs mandatory nature.

If in doubt on something, it should always be the better option to side with caution, in this case wear the Hijab, if it comes to the day of Judgement and it was not required, then you will gain an extra reward for wishing to do something for the sake of Allah(swt) simply out of fear and love.

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

If in doubt on something, it should always be the better option to side with caution, in this case wear the Hijab, if it comes to the day of Judgement and it was not required, then you will gain an extra reward for wishing to do something for the sake of Allah(swt) simply out of fear and love.

Which is a good reason for saying that hijab or niqab might be mustahabb, but not a good argument for saying they're fard.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

If in doubt on something, it should always be the better option to side with caution, in this case wear the Hijab, if it comes to the day of Judgement and it was not required, then you will gain an extra reward for wishing to do something for the sake of Allah(swt) simply out of fear and love.

Which is a good reason for saying that hijab or niqab might be mustahabb, but not a good argument for saying they're fard.

It's an argument for saying at the very least, there is a small outside chance that it's mustahabb, but a 99% chance that it's fard.

Im inclined to go with what well over 99% of the Scholarly community male and female have been saying for the past 1400 years with this one.

And not with the recent panderings of the liberal west fearing "Scholars" who rather have everyone hug and love Islam than fortify themselves to simply properly uphold it.

[Tahpenes]

Haha Coffee

Im inclined to go with what well over 99% of the Scholarly community male and female have been saying for the past 1400 years with this one.

And not with the recent panderings of the liberal west fearing "Scholars" who rather have everyone hug and love Islam than fortify themselves to simply properly uphold it.

I don't want to get into a nasty argument. But as an alternative viewpoint, maybe it's better to go with what is actually in the Quran and hadith, as opposed to jumping through hoops to make the Quran and the words/acts of the Prophet (PBUH) justify practices adopted from pagan cultures.

Unless you're going to start arguing that purdah is fard. wink That was accepted by Islamic scholars for generations, too.

It's been nice having this discussion, HC.

[Haha Coffee]

Tahpenes

Haha Coffee

Im inclined to go with what well over 99% of the Scholarly community male and female have been saying for the past 1400 years with this one.

And not with the recent panderings of the liberal west fearing "Scholars" who rather have everyone hug and love Islam than fortify themselves to simply properly uphold it.

I don't want to get into a nasty argument. But as an alternative viewpoint, maybe it's better to go with what is actually in the Quran and hadith,

I am.
Which is why im saying Hijab is mandatory.


It has been nice indeedily doo! ^_^