My problem with Christianity

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Kashii_Ai

Lucky~9~Lives

Kashii_Ai

As for those people, I'm not sure. I think there was a lot of psychology involved with it, and they were pushed into extenuating circumstances (ie, prosecute Jews and other minorities or be jailed/die), but Hitler was the one who perpetuated it all and had more of a choice (or, well, a better set of options). So I think that's where the difference might be.

Jail isn't a threat if there's no jailers; Hitler couldn't have perpetuated it all alone.

That's very true. But he could still kill them. biggrin

A single person can only kill so many against their will.

[Monergism]

Kashii_Ai

Monergism

Evil is not some spiritual dark force like in Wicca.

. . . my best friend is Wiccan good job you just offended me.

Wicca is not a spiritual dark force and is actually very similar to Christianity in the fact that they worship a single God divided into two aspects (male and female, God and Goddess). Kind of like the Holy Trinity, you know? And they also worship God's creation and offer up spells for others (you know, kind of like prayer) and use iconography much the same way Catholics do.

So . . . yeah. You might wanna research a religion before you say stuff about it.

Before I reply,

I do apologize for the lack of careful treatment on my behalf about Wicca. I did not mean to stereotype in any way.

[Monergism]

Kashii_Ai

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So then scripture is not the revelation from God but rather man's agenda?

True, that the Bible was physically written by the hands of men. How else do you expect God to reveal his word to his creation?

I do believe it's God's Word, but I also think it should be taken with a grain of salt. God most definitely works through people, and that includes their writing. I'm a fantasy author and I write a lot about religion and spirituality in my work and feel closest to God in this work. But that doesn't mean what I say about spirituality in my work is 100% correct.

So I consider the Bible to be an authority, but I don't take it at face value. I do my own research and prayer and personally ask God what He thinks before I make any decisions about what the Bible says.

Interesting. What would happen if your personal experiences or revelations from God contradict each other and scripture?

Kashii_Ai

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Personally, when there is people in this world that get away with robbery, rape, murder and etc. There will be a day of judgement, (especially for me!), to give an answer to our Creator for our actions.

Yes, and notice that robbery, rape and murder are ways of harming and separating you from others. And you're also right that God will see it, even if others don't. I don't think people can escape God's judgement--quite the opposite.

But I also think this is God's job ALONE and it's not our place to judge others (I personally see it as 'playing God'). It's our job to carry out God's work as the force of all good things, and be forces of good things too by being Christ to others. And may the Force be with you. //shot

I'm guessing then you believe in Hell?...

I would like to change this direction towards me on God's judgement. I confess that I'm lying, thieving, adulterous at heart, who has coveted and put the Lord's name in vain many time through out my whole life. Wretched person, I am. Do I deserve God's judgement and be sent to hell for my rebellion against God?

Kashii_Ai

I believe the Bible right off the bat says this:

Quote:

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. --Genesis 1:27, New International Version

God created us to be like Him. If God is the force of all that is holy and good, this means we have all His goodness and holiness in us, doesn't it?

Goodness before the fall of man, then yes. I'm not saying that anyone is not capable of doing good but spiritually we are not good. That's why Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3) Also he said, "And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed." (John 3:19-20)

Apostle Paul also quoted the Psalm 14 in Romans 3:10-18,

"as it is written:
'None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
“Their throat is an open grave;
they use their tongues to deceive.”
“The venom of asps is under their lips.”
“Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
in their paths are ruin and misery,
and the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes."'

This is why Jesus came to save what was lost. To redeem man from the curse and bring them back to God.

Kashii_Ai

I think the idea that our goodness is 'false' or 'weak' contradicts the idea of Christianity, because it opposes all the religion strives for--to be the image of God. To be LIKE God. If our goodness is weak and we're evil by default, how can we possibly ever measure up? That's an impossible, unrealistic expectation.

Jesus did. Christianity is about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Not to be like God. That we fall short of God's holiness and are under the shadow of judgement. God knows this and so he sent his Son Jesus. "She (Mary) will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”(Matthew 1:21)

[The Right Hand Path]

Athena_Ritashe

In your religion you have a loving God, who created everything, and then you have humans who ate a fruit and who sinned, and you have Jesus, who took God’s wrath and saved everyone, and all I have to do is believe and repent. One big problem… when you get down to it the thing I did wrong is EXIST. I don’t have to do anything. Breathing is what earns me hellfire. God is mad at me from the time I begin to exist until I start saying I’m so sorry I exist and that I’m grateful that he created me. But he loves me? If he loved me he wouldn’t gleefully torture me, whether I am worshipful or not.

That's... not even remotely true. Most sects of Christianity believe that infants, who have no ability to comprehend the idea of God, will not go to Hell. This also extends to those who have never heard of Jesus before. Your sin was hearing about Jesus and rejecting it. Existing wasn't what you did wrong. That is an incorrect interpretation of most Christian sects. Of course, denominations like this exist, but they are very rare, and I absolutely disagree with their interpretation.

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So which is it? Is God loving? Is he hateful and petty? Does he not really care? Is he each?

God is loving. However, He is also acts in the name of Justice: He acts as a judge of mankind and fairly resides over their actions and categorizes them accordingly. He clearly cares, or else he wouldn't reside over our actions.

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If you are Hitler and you adore the followers who love and praise you why you are still a monster, no matter how kind you are to the Nazis who adore you. And just to take the analogy further: Is it okay what Hitler did to the Jews if he offered them a pardon if they denied their Jewishness and became Nazis? NO!

Sure, but that does not apply to God, as God adores all; not just his followers.

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Fact is Christianity and Islam scare me. They have a God that is angry and petty and will torture you forever just for existing. At least in Islam they just say “God is God, he can do whatever he wants.” The fact is I see these religions as so internally contradictory that they cannot be real. If I was a Christian I’d be worshipping a divine Hitler. You’d better “Sieg Hail!” and throw you right arm up or you’re going to the concentration camp. Your God is not love. Your God may not really exist.

I think I've already pointed out how this logic doesn't work. I don't know enough about Islam to say whether any of what you said in that regard is true, but I think you've missed the mark badly with Christianity.

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Either you have totally warped and misrepresented God, or this “God” doesn’t really exist. How can God be so petty as to torture someone forever for not worshiping him, and yet be called “loving”? It makes no sense.

Who said he tortures people forever? There are more interpretations of hell other than torment forever. Annihilationism, the idea that all are forgiven and go to heaven, the idea of a temporary hell that reliquishes you of your sin before putting you in Heaven, and the idea that Hell is a separation from God and not actually a torment are all very real interpretations that could very well be accurate and argued for quite well.

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I'm sick so I'll take a nap, I'll respond to any responses when I wake up.

Have a good nap. smile

[GunsmithKitten]

Ameixah

God is not really mad at you in particular, or personally. What God hates is disobedience, wickedness, and sin. God knows you're not perfect, and He knows we are all sinners; which is why he sent Jesus to die to save us from our sins. If God didn't want you to exist, you wouldn't have.

You pretty much summed up my biggest objection there.

Let's get this straight; God hates disobedience, even though he knew we'd become disobedient, knew what would make us disobedient, failed to do anything to prevent that original corruption from occurring, AND gave us the very tools we needed to disobey him in the first place (free will; without it, we would never have sinned and never lost favor in his eyes).Not only that, but he made it to where the corruption that he knew about and never bothered to prevent would make sure we never had the ability to obey his laws again (already violating free will, one of many times he revokes it), which I remind you were deliberately set up we found out to damn us in the first place, all so he could initiate an elaborate plan to have us win favor in his eyes by sending a man who was also God to go and die and symbolically take all our sins upon himself somehow, but that in turn sets up new rulesets that are even more confusing than before (what makes a TRUE Christian, after all?) and spawns over 100 different factions of how to recieve salvation through his sacrifice.

All by a being who could have said "All are redeemed in mine eyes and will never sin" and be done with it.

[GunsmithKitten]

The Right Hand Path

That's... not even remotely true. Most sects of Christianity believe that infants, who have no ability to comprehend the idea of God, will not go to Hell.

Even though this has absolutely no basis in scripture.

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as God adores all; not just his followers.

Jacob I loved, ESAU I HATED.

[Monergism]

GunsmithKitten

The Right Hand Path

That's... not even remotely true. Most sects of Christianity believe that infants, who have no ability to comprehend the idea of God, will not go to Hell.

Even though this has absolutely no basis in scripture.

Most theologians refer to Matthew 19:14 on this matter. However it doesn't help to provide a definite doctrine. This topic is a bit touchy within the Reformed circles.

Matthew 19:14

... Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."

[Manirak]

The Right Hand Path

That's... not even remotely true. Most sects of Christianity believe that infants, who have no ability to comprehend the idea of God, will not go to Hell. This also extends to those who have never heard of Jesus before. Your sin was hearing about Jesus and rejecting it.

I actually take issue with the second part, GSK. If we don't go to hell unless we hear about Christianity, then what purpose does Christianity serve? If you proselytize are you not then simply condemning the percentage of people who reject Jesus, people who would not have been damned had you not offered them the choice? Making exceptions to moral issues like this just feels kind of suspect to me in general.

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

The Right Hand Path

Your sin was hearing about Jesus and rejecting it.

So, Christianity is a set-up. God must hate people, or he must have fun throwing people into Gehenna for kicks.

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

Manirak

I actually take issue with the second part, GSK. If we don't go to hell unless we hear about Christianity, then what purpose does Christianity serve? If you proselytize are you not then simply condemning the percentage of people who reject Jesus, people who would not have been damned had you not offered them the choice? Making exceptions to moral issues like this just feels kind of suspect to me in general.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this. God is a douche bag if this is true.

[Ranga runner]

Lucky~9~Lives

Ranga runner

Also "All men are created equal"
Uh-huh. Please explain special needs and birth defects then please.

Equal in worth.

Of course.
THAT explains Slavery! Which Christ condoned -_-

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Ranga runner

Lucky~9~Lives

Ranga runner

Also "All men are created equal"
Uh-huh. Please explain special needs and birth defects then please.

Equal in worth.

Of course.
THAT explains Slavery! Which Christ condoned -_-

Things seldom remain as they were created.

[Kurarisuu]

Ameixah

God didn't make you a slave, or a drone; he gave you free will. Which is why he wants you to see His way and choose Him openly, with your own mind. God loves believers and non-believers that's why He sent His son.

A choice made with the threat of a gun to your head (not nearly as bad as eternal hellfire), isn't really a free choice. Sheol, Hades, or whatever doesn't sound so fabulous either.

[Ranga runner]

Lucky~9~Lives

Ranga runner

Lucky~9~Lives

Ranga runner

Also "All men are created equal"
Uh-huh. Please explain special needs and birth defects then please.

Equal in worth.

Of course.
THAT explains Slavery! Which Christ condoned -_-

Things seldom remain as they were created.

Which is why Christianity is riddled with flaws

[Calelith]

Kashii_Ai

. . . my best friend is Wiccan good job you just offended me.

Wicca is not a spiritual dark force and is actually very similar to Christianity in the fact that they worship a single God divided into two aspects (male and female, God and Goddess). Kind of like the Holy Trinity, you know? And they also worship God's creation and offer up spells for others (you know, kind of like prayer) and use iconography much the same way Catholics do.

So . . . yeah. You might wanna research a religion before you say stuff about it.

Might wanna take your own advice there.

"Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wagh’nagl fhtagn."