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I'm curious what arguments for religion seem most promising to the non-religious people here on M&R, if any do. One argument for Christianity which I think could have some merit is that the recorded martyrdoms of Jesus' disciples point to their sincerity. Not that this convinces me of Christianity's truth, but it might be reasonable. Can anyone relate? Or does anyone know of a good rebuttal to the argument I mentioned?
Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
MachineMuse's avatar

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Someone can be sincere about something but still be wrong.

You're thinking in the wrong kind of mindset to even begin to convince an atheist to believe in God.
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MachineMuse
Someone can be sincere about something but still be wrong.

You're thinking in the wrong kind of mindset to even begin to convince an atheist to believe in God.
I get that. The only thing is that the disciples are said to have experienced Jesus' life firsthand. I wonder what might have caused them to be so sincerely convinced of Jesus' resurrection. I was hoping to hear some reasonable alternatives to the idea that his resurrection was the cause.

I'm not thinking in the wrong mindset, nor am I trying to convince atheists to believe in God. I'm an atheist myself. Maybe I should've clarified. This argument is far from making me a Christian. I just think it could be plausible.
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?
Nerdologist
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?


Prove that any of that happened?
MachineMuse's avatar

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Nerdologist
I get that. The only thing is that the disciples are said to have experienced Jesus' life firsthand. I wonder what might have caused them to be so sincerely convinced of Jesus' resurrection. I was hoping to hear some reasonable alternatives to the idea that his resurrection was the cause.

I'm not thinking in the wrong mindset, nor am I trying to convince atheists to believe in God. I'm an atheist myself. Maybe I should've clarified. This argument is far from making me a Christian. I just think it could be plausible.

Lots of things. Jesus was really smart and the people around him wanted to believe. So it would've been easy to convince them. It's not like what he was promoting was something hard to understand.
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?


Prove that any of that happened?
I have no desire to "prove" any of that happened. I was simply asking for hypothetical alternatives to the standard Christian interpretation of these events. I am in no way devoted to defending Jesus' resurrection as the best explanation. I'm just not currently familiar with counter-arguments.
Nerdologist
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?


Prove that any of that happened?
I have no desire to "prove" any of that happened. I was simply asking for hypothetical alternatives to the standard Christian interpretation of these events. I am in no way devoted to defending Jesus' resurrection as the best explanation. I'm just not currently familiar with counter-arguments.


You are attempting to abstract purpose of belief from a hitherto unverified tale, based upon the sincerity of a charecter's purported fervency in their martrydoms. I'd say that the validation of its existance would be a relatively prominent counter-argument in it's power of persuasion.
The only compelling reason to join a religion is to be included in part of a tight-knit peer group. You don't have buy any of the bullshit, just fake it.
Nerdologist
I'm curious what arguments for religion seem most promising to the non-religious people here on M&R, if any do. One argument for Christianity which I think could have some merit is that the recorded martyrdoms of Jesus' disciples point to their sincerity. Not that this convinces me of Christianity's truth, but it might be reasonable. Can anyone relate? Or does anyone know of a good rebuttal to the argument I mentioned?

Sure, I know of an excellent rebuttal. It's called Monty Python's Life of Brian.

If you're looking to convince non-believers. Unambiguous, repeatable, testable evidence would be a good start.
Nerdologist
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?


Prove that any of that happened?
I have no desire to "prove" any of that happened. I was simply asking for hypothetical alternatives to the standard Christian interpretation of these events. I am in no way devoted to defending Jesus' resurrection as the best explanation. I'm just not currently familiar with counter-arguments.


There's no proof any of these events ever happened, so no hypotheses need be furnished.
m i r a c u l u m's avatar

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Most religions have had martyrs to varying degrees. It's not a modern phenomena.
ANJell-GoMinam's avatar

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Nerdologist
I'm curious what arguments for religion seem most promising to the non-religious people here on M&R, if any do. One argument for Christianity which I think could have some merit is that the recorded martyrdoms of Jesus' disciples point to their sincerity. Not that this convinces me of Christianity's truth, but it might be reasonable. Can anyone relate? Or does anyone know of a good rebuttal to the argument I mentioned?

You are right, It truly amazes me how saints would die in such horrid ways just for the sake of their belief. It really makes me wonder if I am willing to do the same? Over many centuries, stories of these martyrs coming from all corners of the world still amazes me till this day, that is how I was able to build my faith in God, it was truly their sincerity in being true Christians that changed my view in life
ANJell-GoMinam's avatar

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azulmagia
Nerdologist
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Nerdologist
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Flying planes into buildings seems to be a compellingly persuasive martyrdom in favour of Islam. That can be true too.
It's not the same because those Muslims didn't live to experience the events recorded in the Koran. The disciples supposedly were around to see Jesus' resurrection. What seems like a reasonable explanation for their devout belief that doesn't involve Jesus rising from the dead?


Prove that any of that happened?
I have no desire to "prove" any of that happened. I was simply asking for hypothetical alternatives to the standard Christian interpretation of these events. I am in no way devoted to defending Jesus' resurrection as the best explanation. I'm just not currently familiar with counter-arguments.


There's no proof any of these events ever happened, so no hypotheses need be furnished.

The Shroud

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