Lokeans and Asatru: Still Here, Despite All Odds

[Randi The Rogue]

Sanguina Cruenta

So guys! Check this s**t out! I'm hoping something he compiled is Relevant To Our Interests!

Oh! A very exciting discovery! I'll have to keep an eye on those.

[Artemis Cain]

Ishilied

Artemis Cain

The way I view God is analogous to the human brain, wherein he's the brain and people are the individual synapses. If God exists, and he is so big and incomprehensible, why would he care about and notice us any more than we do our synapses? How could we have come up with or discovered him in the first place? One single god makes about as much sense as trying to balance an elephant on the head of a needle.

On a different level, based on my reading of the Bible, Koran, and Torah, and conversations with leaders and teachers from various religions, God continues to strike me as petty, thypocritical and senseless.

Religion and belief are both a matter of choice, and I choose to worship the Gods of my Ancestors, which are more relative to me than some Middle Eastern deity on a crusade to prove to the world that he has a bigger p***s (metaphorically speaking) than all of the other Gods (that God either doesn't acknowledge, or labels as demons to try to get rid of them). What was that quote? "I would rather live there (in Hell) with my ancestors than go to heaven with a parcel of beggars" seems to sum up a very common feeling among Asatruar.

Also, trying to use mass entertainment/modern media (ie; YuGiOh and Supernatural) to make your points is going to (and has) fail(ed) pretty hard.

well you just proved my point.
you don't veiw god as god, but some sort of uber brain in the sky.
its easier to view him that way, because then you can justify worshiping something by definition, that is demonstrably weaker.


the thing that annoys me about norse pagans in general is that they talk alot of s**t about being manly and badass, and their ancestors and their lack of fear,

but its all talk, because any man, can be broken. everything feels pain, and everything has a threshold. if your arms are ripped out of your sockets, you will at least gasp with pain.

this saying of yours is ignorant of what hell really is. and the concept of pain in general. you only can boast because you haven't experienced it.

but real courage would be in the form of a saying I was taught.

"If I die, and my soul is lost. It's nobody's fault but mine."

It acknowledges that hell is horrifying, but accepts that if their choices in life lead them to that end, they will accept it.


If you would have read these books you say you've read, you would notice, God is on no crusade.

why would he be? he's the infinite. he says hes all powerful and that no other gods can match him, because well, he is. thats it.


Again this is the third thing pagans do, rework the other persons theology. most of them don't have a clear understanding, and go on being ignorant.

Mass media was just there for a visual. the points that you keep dodging still stand. I didn't need them, but it made it look purdy so whatevs.


My ancestors are tied closely to the Celtic God of the sky,
one was crowned by him,
the other was said to be his son.

but times change, and things die.

the old gods were weak, and died.

they had use in the days when the world was harsh and wild.

but we don't need them anymore.

[Kani Jalo]

Artemis Cain

And you don't need God anymore with science. What's your point?

What I was trying to say is that it's all a matter of choice. I have done extensive research into a variety of religions, so you really can't try to call ignorance here. If anything, you're showing ignorance in your belief that everyone who worships the Aesir are trying to be "manly" and "badass".

That any man can be broken is part of the beauty of life. It is something to be admired: that we can be broken, that we will be broken, and that we continue to pursue life in spite of that.

I am in excruciating pain every day. I had an accident that twisted my spine and pulled my head out of place. I was paralyzed, and my stepfather shook me until I was able to force myself walk again. Half of my body is twisted out of shape, and I have no recourse from the pain. I boast of nothing. I simply endure. Your assumption that I don't know pain is insulting at best.

I have found that the worldview and theology inherent in Asatru matches exactly what I found I believed on my own, from going through creeds of other religions, picking up what fit me, and abandoning the rest. I am content with this. I don't believe that souls can be lost, as those who have only one god believe. He is not the only answer.

Your need to get a bunch of pagans/heathens to acknowledge God as superior has been typical of the monotheistic religions since they were invented.

If you don't need the mass media, don't use it. It may look pretty, but it detracts from your argument - which seems to be pointless pandering anyway.

[CalledTheRaven]

Artemis Cain

The 12thcentury is when most of our surviving stories about the Norse Gods were written down. They were written down by Christians. Most of the stories existed much longer than that, just in an oral tradition. Some of them, like the story of Ragnorok may actually be additions of those Christian scholars and clerics who codified and recorded the myths.

And you're still basing your arguments on the stories and descriptions of YHWH in the Bible. You're assuming those stories are accurate in their representation of your God's powers and abilities.. I've seen nothing to suggest this is so. In my view, your God is a trumped up tribal deity. He claims a great deal of power and dominion that I don't believe to actually be his.

[Kani Jalo]

CalledTheRaven

Artemis Cain

The 12thcentury is when most of our surviving stories about the Norse Gods were written down. They were written down by Christians. Most of the stories existed much longer than that, just in an oral tradition. Some of them, like the story of Ragnorok may actually be additions of those Christian scholars and clerics who codified and recorded the myths.

And you're still basing your arguments on the stories and descriptions of YHWH in the Bible. You're assuming those stories are accurate in their representation of your God's powers and abilities.. I've seen nothing to suggest this is so. In my view, your God is a trumped up tribal deity. He claims a great deal of power and dominion that I don't believe to actually be his.

Hm. This is probably the better approach. cat_xd /tips

[The Spellslinger]

Sanguina Cruenta

Sure. Formal prayer might include hailing the god in question, reciting a list of their bynames and so on, as well as their weapon and a great deed of theirs. Informal prayer might just be "hey, want to chat?". It's sort of the mindframe you're coming to them with as well as whether you're in a particular place such as before a shrine, what stance you take physically, and the sort of language you use. You can pray with arms outstretched before a godpost or you can do it in the supermarket.

You keep mentioning these "godposts," what are they?

[The Spellslinger]

Artemis Cain

What are you still doing here? We clearly don't accept your book, or it's omnipotent deity, so get lost.

[CalledTheRaven]

The Spellslinger

Sanguina Cruenta

Sure. Formal prayer might include hailing the god in question, reciting a list of their bynames and so on, as well as their weapon and a great deed of theirs. Informal prayer might just be "hey, want to chat?". It's sort of the mindframe you're coming to them with as well as whether you're in a particular place such as before a shrine, what stance you take physically, and the sort of language you use. You can pray with arms outstretched before a godpost or you can do it in the supermarket.

You keep mentioning these "godposts," what are they?

Pretty much exactly what it says on the the tin. A godpost is a post that represents a particular deity. It might have a face or figure carved into it or an inscription or some other such, so long as the representation is there for you.

Also, found this article that might interest you on basic prayer type stuffs.

[Morgandria]

Godpost:

[Artemis Cain]

CalledTheRaven

Artemis Cain

The 12thcentury is when most of our surviving stories about the Norse Gods were written down. They were written down by Christians. Most of the stories existed much longer than that, just in an oral tradition. Some of them, like the story of Ragnorok may actually be additions of those Christian scholars and clerics who codified and recorded the myths.

And you're still basing your arguments on the stories and descriptions of YHWH in the Bible. You're assuming those stories are accurate in their representation of your God's powers and abilities.. I've seen nothing to suggest this is so. In my view, your God is a trumped up tribal deity. He claims a great deal of power and dominion that I don't believe to actually be his.

He remains the same, whether you believe it or not. once again, if what you're thinking of, when you think of god does not match the criteria for him to be God, then unfortunately he is not god, merely your idea of him, which is wrong. he must be those things in order to be who he is. there is no if buts maybes. what ifs. those are the rules.

it's that simple. you can try and rework the theology all you want. but as he said to moses, I will be what I will be.

Snorri Sturluson wrote most of the surviving accounts of the Norse mythology.
in the 13th century.

he theorizes that the gods were just old kings and heroes who became deified, by certain tribes.

which is possible.

but if you're going to assume that because christians wrote most of the literature, its some big giant conspiracy by the church and that you can't trust this, because christians by definition cannot write unbiased accounts, or transcribe things fairly.

what do you have to go on? If you're gonna question some of it, question it all.

How do we know thor did all the things, he was able to do,
how do we know snorri wasn't right about his theory.

Ragnarok may be an addition yes perhaps,
but it might not be.

you don't know any of this because you've got nothing. if this is the case.

then it just looks like this whole religion isn't really organized, and isn't very legitimate.


Jus sayian. neutral

[CalledTheRaven]

Artemis Cain

|

You're arguments are circular and I'm done with you. Ignoring now.

[Artemis Cain]

its only circular because you ignore the points and avoid the questions.

I don't allow these things, hence why we keep coming back to them.

you'll never make it to valhalla with this attitude.
then again they're letting everyone in these days, it seems. so perhaps a bit of cowardice is permissible.

every hall needs a jester I suppose.

its not over untill I'm finished. don't be selfish, now.

I gotta couple of family mottos i try and live by.
first one is Death or Life,

The other one is Blood and Wounds.

In other words. I'm like mad dog with a mean set of jaws that are content to shake the life out of your foolishness.

[Artemis Cain]

Ishilied

Artemis Cain

And you don't need God anymore with science. What's your point?

What I was trying to say is that it's all a matter of choice. I have done extensive research into a variety of religions, so you really can't try to call ignorance here. If anything, you're showing ignorance in your belief that everyone who worships the Aesir are trying to be "manly" and "badass".

That any man can be broken is part of the beauty of life. It is something to be admired: that we can be broken, that we will be broken, and that we continue to pursue life in spite of that.

I am in excruciating pain every day. I had an accident that twisted my spine and pulled my head out of place. I was paralyzed, and my stepfather shook me until I was able to force myself walk again. Half of my body is twisted out of shape, and I have no recourse from the pain. I boast of nothing. I simply endure. Your assumption that I don't know pain is insulting at best.

I have found that the worldview and theology inherent in Asatru matches exactly what I found I believed on my own, from going through creeds of other religions, picking up what fit me, and abandoning the rest. I am content with this. I don't believe that souls can be lost, as those who have only one god believe. He is not the only answer.

Your need to get a bunch of pagans/heathens to acknowledge God as superior has been typical of the monotheistic religions since they were invented.

If you don't need the mass media, don't use it. It may look pretty, but it detracts from your argument - which seems to be pointless pandering anyway.

I'll use visual aids when I see fit, thank you very much.

I don't need to get pagans to acknowledge anything, that wasn't the point. By definition and his given description, even his name(s) he is. if both God and the Norse Gods exist,

Then the latter would exist because the former allowed it. perhaps Azrael has Thor's name in his book.

See, this whole God might be lying, not as strong as he says he is, argument, doesn't work, because it's just wishful thinking. God has to be all the things that he says he is. otherwise he wouldn't be God, but an impostor posing as God, whilst the Real God is elsewhere. (that is to say one who fits all the requirements to be God.) or again just your idea of God that fits in with your world view.

Thor has a hammer. its part of what makes him Thor.
God is omnipotent. its what makes him God.
Thoth has the Head of one of the bird thingies, its again part of who he is.
The Hound of Culann Broke the big stone of Fal in his rage, when it would not sing out for his friend. it never sang again. (well until hundreds of years later when my supposed ancestor tripped over the thing.)

these things are part of these beings/ people. (well the last one was a bit off topic. but I never miss a chance to take a dig at that b***h Cuchulain. who was trained by a Scottish Woman mind you. eat that Ireland. your greatest hero, Trained by a Scottish WOMAN. course he banged both her and her daughter. living up to The "Cu" in his name suppose. but thats besides the point. )

I was talking of hell, not of pain. (and not hell in the poetic philosophic sense, either.)

Nonetheless I do hope that someday we will find a way to fix such injuries. Sitting around feeling sorry hasn't had a good track record, nor has the customary "Jeez, that sucks." fared any better.


Anyway, I digress. as far as broken, I meant it in it's more concrete and final sense.

When I muse, it tends to be more for me, then anyone else.

I had the hypothesis, (answering the question, how do pagans deal with the idea or possibility of the Abrahamic God, or an Omnipotent one.)

that they would try and change the goal posts. (rework the theology,)
Bring the church into it,
Avoid the question,
or ignore it altogether.

all this would probably be peppered with the rehashed arguments of the nature of God, usually Atheistic in nature, but tailored to suit the purposes of a theist from the other side of the tracks, as it were.

Then again I wondered, perhaps pagans are different.
They sure claim to be. Why, a lot of them where once Christians anyway, and changed robes for a reputedly less judgy, more open experience, ( one being a hell of a lot easier, in the rules department, too.)



But in the end, you're no better than those Christians, are you.
Fundamentalists, right wing, full of the vinegar. the lot of you.

And I ramble. its what I do.

Nyah.

[Artemis Cain]

The Spellslinger

Artemis Cain

What are you still doing here? We clearly don't accept your book, or it's omnipotent deity, so get lost.

Manners, my boy.
you didn't want to talk, so just wait on the sidelines.
-If you're lucky, and I'm feeling charitable, I'll give you another chance and segway you in.
until then, once again, continue minding those p's and q's

[The Spellslinger]

Artemis Cain

The Spellslinger

Artemis Cain

What are you still doing here? We clearly don't accept your book, or it's omnipotent deity, so get lost.

Manners, my boy.
you didn't want to talk, so just wait on the sidelines.
-If you're lucky, and I'm feeling charitable, I'll give you another chance and segway you in.
until then, once again, continue minding those p's and q's

It's segue-way, first off, so mind your u's and e's a little closer. You're cluttering up a thread that could be better spent discussing relevant aspects of Asatru. If you actually believe in your god, you shouldn't even be here.