Life after death? What life?

[KorValesh]

Some people, across a wide spectrum of faiths, beliefs and philosophies, believe that after the end of life there will be another life. Some say in the form of an afterlife, some in the form of rebirth or reincarnation... others still in the memories of their children. *scoff*


My query is about just what lives on after death, or to put it in another way, what there already is.


My sense of self is made up of my physical body, my mentality, personality, my quirks and that includes my negative attributes as much as positive. These things are always changing, my body now is not the body I had 5 years ago, my personality changes as well and I pick up bad habits as willingly as I act to change for the better.

Given the fluid nature and the impermanence of what I call 'me' what is it that would carry on to this next life?

If you take a persons body, personality, habits etc and hand them a new set altogether, how can that new thing be the original... or in any way a product of the original?

So, for any and all who believe in a 'life after death', what is it that lives on after your death and what relationship does it have to you?


[Edited for spelling mistakes]

[Xiam]

Consciousness. The Self, the "I Am." It has no memories, no goals in life, but it is aware of its own existence, and is what ultimately makes choices, albeit influenced in any given life by its previous experiences and its future goals. But the past and the future hold no ultimate bearings upon it, because its only existence is in an eternal present.

Or something.

What lives on is not you as you know it - it is simply the awareness.

Alternatively, your body is devoured by the bacteria in your body and various critters that will bore holes in you after you die, which will turn you into fertilizer for plants, and both critters and plants will in turn be eaten by other things, which will be eaten by other things. In such a way, you live on in new forms.

Really depends on how you view the world and spiritual existence, doesn't it?

[Lucky~9~Lives]

KorValesh

If you take a persons body, personality, habits etc and hand them a new set altogether, how can that new thing be the original... or in any way a product of the original?

If the set I hand them is connected to them in some way. Which it would be, given that I would be handing it to them. As in, you're presupposing a "them" there.
- burning_eyes

[Rachington_Washael]

I think that when I die, I will leave behind the memories that I have shared with my friends and family. So, I, in spirit, I guess, would live on through them. I am not too sure on a life after death, but I like to think that if I am deemed worthy enough, then I will be reincarnated, and get a chance to meet and have new friends and family members. I sort of believe that to a small degree people remember some of the things that they have done or the people that they have interacted with during a past life.

[Votaro]

I believe that if My spiritual frequency is stable enough, it can survive being reborn, but if it is not, it will change it's form beyond my control and redistribute it's self however it may. Also I believe that if my spiritual form is stable and my dependence on the presence of chaos in life (Dependence on the presence of chaos to appreciate the good) depletes and my soul becomes a good representation of a virtuous one, then I can transcend beyond this plain of existence. Also the belief that if my dependence on chaos rises to the point to where it is depended on more than food eaten to survive (Food is an example) then I will go to another plain of existence when I Die, a place that won't be pleasant, a place so bad that even Hitler wouldn't be deemed bad enough to go. if I die in this realm and have lost that dependency then I will be reborn back on this plain of existence.

[KorValesh]

Xiam

Consciousness. The Self, the "I Am." It has no memories, no goals in life, but it is aware of its own existence, and is what ultimately makes choices, albeit influenced in any given life by its previous experiences and its future goals. But the past and the future hold no ultimate bearings upon it, because its only existence is in an eternal present.

Or something.

What lives on is not you as you know it - it is simply the awareness.

Alternatively, your body is devoured by the bacteria in your body and various critters that will bore holes in you after you die, which will turn you into fertilizer for plants, and both critters and plants will in turn be eaten by other things, which will be eaten by other things. In such a way, you live on in new forms.

Really depends on how you view the world and spiritual existence, doesn't it?

But right off that bat that answer feels insufficient.

Conscisousness, being self aware, there's nothing to suggest that this survives the death of a physical organism. Conciousness is dependant on the brain, the body and its psycho-somatic set-up. It depends on chemistry and biology, on past experience and memory. When the body dies all of the variables change, all the things conciousness depends on break down. The only answer would be to say that conciousness has some other source, which would be a totally made up answer flieing in the face of the most testable, simple answer.

The same goes for 'the self' just a conglomerate of factors coming together: sensation, perception, the formation of mental patterns, a name, etc etc Totally unique in this moment, not the same before or after, which part is the part that has always existed and will continue to exist permanently?

My issue is that no it doesn't depend on how you view it, one individuals views, within the framework of our limited knowledge, I can't imagine indivual opinion has much bearing on the actual reality.

[THE ULTIMATE DOOM]

If there's any scientific proof that there's life after death, I'd kill myself right now.

[Xiam]

KorValesh

Xiam

Consciousness. The Self, the "I Am." It has no memories, no goals in life, but it is aware of its own existence, and is what ultimately makes choices, albeit influenced in any given life by its previous experiences and its future goals. But the past and the future hold no ultimate bearings upon it, because its only existence is in an eternal present.

Or something.

What lives on is not you as you know it - it is simply the awareness.

Alternatively, your body is devoured by the bacteria in your body and various critters that will bore holes in you after you die, which will turn you into fertilizer for plants, and both critters and plants will in turn be eaten by other things, which will be eaten by other things. In such a way, you live on in new forms.

Really depends on how you view the world and spiritual existence, doesn't it?

But right off that bat that answer feels insufficient.

Conscisousness, being self aware, there's nothing to suggest that this survives the death of a physical organism. Conciousness is dependant on the brain, the body and its psycho-somatic set-up. It depends on chemistry and biology, on past experience and memory. When the body dies all of the variables change, all the things conciousness depends on break down. The only answer would be to say that conciousness has some other source, which would be a totally made up answer flieing in the face of the most testable, simple answer.

The same goes for 'the self' just a conglomerate of factors coming together: sensation, perception, the formation of mental patterns, a name, etc etc Totally unique in this moment, not the same before or after, which part is the part that has always existed and will continue to exist permanently?

My issue is that no it doesn't depend on how you view it, one individuals views, within the framework of our limited knowledge, I can't imagine indivual opinion has much bearing on the actual reality.

Past experience and memory only determines who you are, not that you are. The truth of your own existence is a given.

[Votaro]

THE ULTIMATE DOOM

If there's any scientific proof that there's life after death, I'd kill myself right now.

LOL, Actually there is.

However it's not what Christians, Muslims, Mormons or anyone from any Abrahamic religion would support. Therefore it's credibility is all to often ignored since the majority in this area are of an Abrahamic religion. Believe it or not, some atheists even believe in it. You see, there are many great minds in the world, one in particular Stephen Hawkings is to be the example. One who is considered beyond any doubt to be a genius, but the question here is, if his body was working again, could he brew me the best cup of tea I've ever drank? The question here is probably not, because when genius is achieved, the limitations that come from the need to specialize create blank spots. Since just about everything has a connection to everything else and thus also the power to effect everything else, specialization in certain topics will inevitably produce the presence of ignorance or simple lack of knowledge in other areas. Conformity brought on by religious concepts effect our advancements even today, however so does the lifespan that comes along with being human.

I'm a philosopher, and for kicks I've often looked up the philosopher's stone, for if it were a possibility, advancements beyond human comprehension could be made within a measly 300 years. Anyhow, time is pretty much inadequate when lined up with the lifespan of a human and the need and time it takes for certain progresses to be made.

[KorValesh]

Xiam

KorValesh

Xiam

Consciousness. The Self, the "I Am." It has no memories, no goals in life, but it is aware of its own existence, and is what ultimately makes choices, albeit influenced in any given life by its previous experiences and its future goals. But the past and the future hold no ultimate bearings upon it, because its only existence is in an eternal present.

Or something.

What lives on is not you as you know it - it is simply the awareness.

Alternatively, your body is devoured by the bacteria in your body and various critters that will bore holes in you after you die, which will turn you into fertilizer for plants, and both critters and plants will in turn be eaten by other things, which will be eaten by other things. In such a way, you live on in new forms.

Really depends on how you view the world and spiritual existence, doesn't it?

But right off that bat that answer feels insufficient.

Conscisousness, being self aware, there's nothing to suggest that this survives the death of a physical organism. Conciousness is dependant on the brain, the body and its psycho-somatic set-up. It depends on chemistry and biology, on past experience and memory. When the body dies all of the variables change, all the things conciousness depends on break down. The only answer would be to say that conciousness has some other source, which would be a totally made up answer flieing in the face of the most testable, simple answer.

The same goes for 'the self' just a conglomerate of factors coming together: sensation, perception, the formation of mental patterns, a name, etc etc Totally unique in this moment, not the same before or after, which part is the part that has always existed and will continue to exist permanently?

My issue is that no it doesn't depend on how you view it, one individuals views, within the framework of our limited knowledge, I can't imagine indivual opinion has much bearing on the actual reality.

Past experience and memory only determines who you are, not that you are. The truth of your own existence is a given.

Right, and we can certainly say that you are bone and flesh and sinew and blood, a mass of different elements bonded together which is in a constant state of change. Brain chemisty and neural networking, past experiences and memories produce lies, dislikes, personality formations.

Now which of these things is supposed to be the 'me' that will live on forever? Or be reborn?

[Koalemos]

KorValesh

Now which of these things is supposed to be the 'me' that will live on forever? Or be reborn?

If you do not balance the facets on a diamond then it will quickly lose its brilliance.

[Xiam]

KorValesh

Xiam

KorValesh

Xiam

Consciousness. The Self, the "I Am." It has no memories, no goals in life, but it is aware of its own existence, and is what ultimately makes choices, albeit influenced in any given life by its previous experiences and its future goals. But the past and the future hold no ultimate bearings upon it, because its only existence is in an eternal present.

Or something.

What lives on is not you as you know it - it is simply the awareness.

Alternatively, your body is devoured by the bacteria in your body and various critters that will bore holes in you after you die, which will turn you into fertilizer for plants, and both critters and plants will in turn be eaten by other things, which will be eaten by other things. In such a way, you live on in new forms.

Really depends on how you view the world and spiritual existence, doesn't it?

But right off that bat that answer feels insufficient.

Conscisousness, being self aware, there's nothing to suggest that this survives the death of a physical organism. Conciousness is dependant on the brain, the body and its psycho-somatic set-up. It depends on chemistry and biology, on past experience and memory. When the body dies all of the variables change, all the things conciousness depends on break down. The only answer would be to say that conciousness has some other source, which would be a totally made up answer flieing in the face of the most testable, simple answer.

The same goes for 'the self' just a conglomerate of factors coming together: sensation, perception, the formation of mental patterns, a name, etc etc Totally unique in this moment, not the same before or after, which part is the part that has always existed and will continue to exist permanently?

My issue is that no it doesn't depend on how you view it, one individuals views, within the framework of our limited knowledge, I can't imagine indivual opinion has much bearing on the actual reality.

Past experience and memory only determines who you are, not that you are. The truth of your own existence is a given.

Right, and we can certainly say that you are bone and flesh and sinew and blood, a mass of different elements bonded together which is in a constant state of change. Brain chemisty and neural networking, past experiences and memories produce lies, dislikes, personality formations.

Now which of these things is supposed to be the 'me' that will live on forever? Or be reborn?

And that'd be what you are.

Also, all that stuff too. It's all been in other lifeforms before you, it'll be in lifeforms after you.

[KorValesh]

So we can determine that the elements which make up stuff exist both before and after an individuals death.

But since none of these things provides any individual object of 'self' again just what can be surviving the break up of the body/mind?

For example, a chicken is slaughtered, I eat said chicken. How on earth can it be said that the chicken 'lives on' in me? It'd carcass might be cooked and ingested to power my body, but that chicken is dead and gone, where is it's continuing life as it had previously existed.

[MONSTROUS-DEITY]

Existence is an endless cycle of death and rebirth
You have lived a million lives
And you have lost a million lives
Constantly perpetuating itself
No meaning, no purpose
You know this in your mind
The secret is already inside you
Waiting to be unlocked
Upon discovery, you attain godliness
But knowing the truth as a man
Only brings despair
The truth is best kept hidden
Until the time is right...

[Il Drago Museveni Il]

"To the question of life after death: not whether such a thing exists but... what manner of life?" -Rev Bem
This thread keeps that line in my head.