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from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

In the Bible Belt, most anyone can tell you about God and Jesus and why they matter (or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us). Something I started noticing about all this knowledge several years ago bothers me. Frequently, in conversions concerning Christianity, the more knowledgeable person on the subject is the less religious participant. This is certainly not always the case, but so many people profess to be religious, attend Church regularly and tithe, then go about telling others how they ought to live more Christian lives but have no apparent grasp of what it means to be Christian or what their sacred text says.

Some explanations come to mind as to why this occurs. For example, having to deal with Christians with great frequency can inspire some non-Christians to learn enough about the religion to turn it against some of its more annoying practitioners. Also, when such a high percentage of the population is Christian, included in that group is bound to be some brash individuals who will always speak before thinking.

So I'm curious. Does anyone else see this happen much (or would it be better to ask how often you see this happen) where a proud member of a religion gets in conversations with heathens who know his religion better than he? Does anyone see this problem occurring with other religions? Why do you think people identify with a religion they don't understand? What do you think when you see a loud, proud, but ignorant Christian (is it even right to call that person a Christian)?
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

from blue to
(or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us).


Okay, I'm calling bullshit right away. I live in the Bible Belt, in Eastern Virginia. I have only experienced one proselytizer who has in any way attempted to affect my life. Politically, there is nothing of much worth that tried to infringe on my right to my lack of belief, either. I don't see what most people claim the Bible Belt is like.
from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

The New Wineskin
from blue to
(or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us).


Okay, I'm calling bullshit right away. I live in the Bible Belt, in Eastern Virginia. I have only experienced one proselytizer who has in any way attempted to affect my life. Politically, there is nothing of much worth that tried to infringe on my right to my lack of belief, either. I don't see what most people claim the Bible Belt is like.

You think the predominant religion doesn't have a substantial impact on the region's inhabitants? Why, just because people aren't constantly harassing you about it? It's ingrained into the culture. The most likely day you are to have off from work is Sunday. Politicians espouse Christian values. Every town has a church. You can't buy liquor on Sunday. Hell, the week we opperate on is based on the creation story. The calendar uses Christ as its primary landmark. How often do you use or hear words like hell, god (with or without damn attached to it), devil/demon, bless or curse? Look at the Christian holidays; how many banks are open Christmas day or Easter Sunday (or any Sunday for that matter)?

Christianity effects your life. That's what I said, and it's true.
Doctrix's avatar

Blessed Friend

Theoretical arguments of that nature happen all the time in this very forum with Wicca. Those who do not follow Wicca often learn about and challenge the veracity of Wiccan claimants.
from blue to
In the Bible Belt, most anyone can tell you about God and Jesus and why they matter (or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us). Something I started noticing about all this knowledge several years ago bothers me. Frequently, in conversions concerning Christianity, the more knowledgeable person on the subject is the less religious participant. This is certainly not always the case, but so many people profess to be religious, attend Church regularly and tithe, then go about telling others how they ought to live more Christian lives but have no apparent grasp of what it means to be Christian or what their sacred text says.

Some explanations come to mind as to why this occurs. For example, having to deal with Christians with great frequency can inspire some non-Christians to learn enough about the religion to turn it against some of its more annoying practitioners. Also, when such a high percentage of the population is Christian, included in that group is bound to be some brash individuals who will always speak before thinking.

So I'm curious. Does anyone else see this happen much (or would it be better to ask how often you see this happen) where a proud member of a religion gets in conversations with heathens who know his religion better than he? Does anyone see this problem occurring with other religions? Why do you think people identify with a religion they don't understand? What do you think when you see a loud, proud, but ignorant Christian (is it even right to call that person a Christian)?



Well I see it as like this.
It's because we know more about Christianity than them that we don't believe in it... Knowledge of what Christianity is is enough to make people stop believing.. unless they have some severe deficiency in the ability to use Logic...
The New Wineskin's avatar

Conversationalist

from blue to
You think the predominant religion doesn't have a substantial impact on the region's inhabitants?

I never said that. I said (or, rather, implied) that the negative impacts that you seem to believe are commonplace in the Bible Belt actually aren't, at least in my experience living in it.

Quote:
Why, just because people aren't constantly harassing you about it?

Yes, that is one reason why.

Quote:
It's ingrained into the culture. The most likely day you are to have off from work is Sunday.


Wow! A day off! How ******** unreasonable! We should ban that right away!

Quote:
Politicians espouse Christian values.

Wow! Politicians try to attract the majority of Americans! How unexpected!

Quote:
Every town has a church.

Wow! Religious freedom and the right to create a place of worship exists! We should get right on banning that, should we?

Quote:
You can't buy liquor on Sunday.

That's a good point on your part. Then again, I don't drink, so I don't particularly care, personally, and it doesn't effect my life.

Quote:
Hell, the week we opperate on is based on the creation story.

No, they're based on the Norse Gods.

Quote:
The calendar uses Christ as its primary landmark.

No, it doesn't. January comes from Janus, god of beginnings in Roman mythology. Feburary is from the feast of purity known as Februa. March comes from Mars, God of War in Roman mythology. April was likely derived from Aphrodite, Goddess of Love in Roman mythology. May comes from Maia, Goddess of the Spring in Roman mythology. June comes from Juno, Queen of the Gods in Roman mythology. July comes from Julius Caesar. August comes from Augustus Caesar. September - December were already on the Roman calender well before Christ was even a thought. Bullshit our calender uses Christ as its primary landmark.

Quote:
How often do you use or hear words like hell, god (with or without damn attached to it), devil/demon, bless or curse?

Not very often, excluding God (which is not unexpected, nor effects like life in any way) and bless (which, in the context of sneezing, which is the only context I ever hear the word, has completely lost its meaning as a religious term).

Quote:
Look at the Christian holidays; how many banks are open Christmas day or Easter Sunday (or any Sunday for that matter)?

Not many, but most Atheists celebrate these "Christian" holidays too.

Quote:
Christianity effects your life. That's what I said, and it's true.

No s**t, really? What I was trying to say is that Christianity has very little negative impact on my life.
Avgvsto's avatar

Anxious Knight

The New Wineskin
I really liked that post.
That's not just a hunch; that's reality.

I was a Christian until I studied exactly how and when the Bible was put together. Learning about other religions was another contributing factor. But the nail in the coffin for me was the apologists. Every single one of their arguments failed the tests of reason and logic, every single time. Thanks, William Lane Craig, D. James Kennedy, and Lee Strobel, for making me an atheist.

Each new fact you learn is one step closer to apostasy.

"There's not a single scholar on the face of the Earth who buys any of it." --Bible scholar Bart Ehrman
JediDillon's avatar

Interesting Seeker

from blue to
In the Bible Belt, most anyone can tell you about God and Jesus and why they matter (or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us). Something I started noticing about all this knowledge several years ago bothers me. Frequently, in conversions concerning Christianity, the more knowledgeable person on the subject is the less religious participant. This is certainly not always the case, but so many people profess to be religious, attend Church regularly and tithe, then go about telling others how they ought to live more Christian lives but have no apparent grasp of what it means to be Christian or what their sacred text says.

Some explanations come to mind as to why this occurs. For example, having to deal with Christians with great frequency can inspire some non-Christians to learn enough about the religion to turn it against some of its more annoying practitioners. Also, when such a high percentage of the population is Christian, included in that group is bound to be some brash individuals who will always speak before thinking.

So I'm curious. Does anyone else see this happen much (or would it be better to ask how often you see this happen) where a proud member of a religion gets in conversations with heathens who know his religion better than he? Does anyone see this problem occurring with other religions? Why do you think people identify with a religion they don't understand? What do you think when you see a loud, proud, but ignorant Christian (is it even right to call that person a Christian)?


Why don't you become Christian and find out?
Elephant_Man
That's not just a hunch; that's reality.

I was a Christian until I studied exactly how and when the Bible was put together. Learning about other religions was another contributing factor. But the nail in the coffin for me was the apologists. Every single one of their arguments failed the tests of reason and logic, every single time. Thanks, William Lane Craig, D. James Kennedy, and Lee Strobel, for making me an atheist.

Each new fact you learn is one step closer to apostasy.

"There's not a single scholar on the face of the Earth who buys any of it." --Bible scholar Bart Ehrman
from blue to

Most, if not all, academic disciplines begin to touch on religions and religious beliefs. Biology, history, astronomy, literature, linguistics, philosophy, history, geology and countless other areas of study contribute to our understanding of the world and begin to uncover theories, ideas and evidence that don't lend themselves to supporting many religious beliefs.

There was a survey done in 1998 for the National Academy of Science that is very often cited. In it, 93% of the respondents rejected the notion of a personal God.
from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

JediDillon



Why don't you become Christian and find out?

What question I asked would be answered by a change of faith?
from blue to's avatar

Beloved Lunatic

ChiyuriYami
from blue to
In the Bible Belt, most anyone can tell you about God and Jesus and why they matter (or don't matter as some of us are atheists, but we're fooling ourselves if we think the predominant religion of the region doesn't effect us). Something I started noticing about all this knowledge several years ago bothers me. Frequently, in conversions concerning Christianity, the more knowledgeable person on the subject is the less religious participant. This is certainly not always the case, but so many people profess to be religious, attend Church regularly and tithe, then go about telling others how they ought to live more Christian lives but have no apparent grasp of what it means to be Christian or what their sacred text says.

Some explanations come to mind as to why this occurs. For example, having to deal with Christians with great frequency can inspire some non-Christians to learn enough about the religion to turn it against some of its more annoying practitioners. Also, when such a high percentage of the population is Christian, included in that group is bound to be some brash individuals who will always speak before thinking.

So I'm curious. Does anyone else see this happen much (or would it be better to ask how often you see this happen) where a proud member of a religion gets in conversations with heathens who know his religion better than he? Does anyone see this problem occurring with other religions? Why do you think people identify with a religion they don't understand? What do you think when you see a loud, proud, but ignorant Christian (is it even right to call that person a Christian)?



Well I see it as like this.
It's because we know more about Christianity than them that we don't believe in it... Knowledge of what Christianity is is enough to make people stop believing.. unless they have some severe deficiency in the ability to use Logic...

I don't think I agree with that. Though there is no proving it right, many well educated people maintain belief can defend their position quite well.
Elephant_Man
That's not just a hunch; that's reality.

I was a Christian until I studied exactly how and when the Bible was put together. Learning about other religions was another contributing factor. But the nail in the coffin for me was the apologists. Every single one of their arguments failed the tests of reason and logic, every single time. Thanks, William Lane Craig, D. James Kennedy, and Lee Strobel, for making me an atheist.

Each new fact you learn is one step closer to apostasy.

"There's not a single scholar on the face of the Earth who buys any of it." --Bible scholar Bart Ehrman



So, because God can't exist by the way he is defined by abrahamic faith, he can't exist at all? Did you try ever seeking your own spirituality, or is it we have to believe in their god or no god?
ChiyoSuzaku
Elephant_Man
That's not just a hunch; that's reality.

I was a Christian until I studied exactly how and when the Bible was put together. Learning about other religions was another contributing factor. But the nail in the coffin for me was the apologists. Every single one of their arguments failed the tests of reason and logic, every single time. Thanks, William Lane Craig, D. James Kennedy, and Lee Strobel, for making me an atheist.

Each new fact you learn is one step closer to apostasy.

"There's not a single scholar on the face of the Earth who buys any of it." --Bible scholar Bart Ehrman



So, because God can't exist by the way he is defined by abrahamic faith, he can't exist at all? Did you try ever seeking your own spirituality, or is it we have to believe in their god or no god?

That depends on what you mean by "God," "spirituality," and "knowledge."

As gods are typically defined, no, there is no good reason to believe any god exists. As mentioned above, I looked into other religions. I've also examined the arguments for deistic gods, and those all fail, too.

Additionally, the recent confirmation of the Standard Model of particle physics demonstrates that the supernatural has no room to exist in the everyday world--such is the fundamental nature of reality.

As a result, I feel comfortable taking the strong atheist position: There is no God.
Elephant_Man
ChiyoSuzaku
Elephant_Man
That's not just a hunch; that's reality.

I was a Christian until I studied exactly how and when the Bible was put together. Learning about other religions was another contributing factor. But the nail in the coffin for me was the apologists. Every single one of their arguments failed the tests of reason and logic, every single time. Thanks, William Lane Craig, D. James Kennedy, and Lee Strobel, for making me an atheist.

Each new fact you learn is one step closer to apostasy.

"There's not a single scholar on the face of the Earth who buys any of it." --Bible scholar Bart Ehrman



So, because God can't exist by the way he is defined by abrahamic faith, he can't exist at all? Did you try ever seeking your own spirituality, or is it we have to believe in their god or no god?

That depends on what you mean by "God," "spirituality," and "knowledge."

As gods are typically defined, no, there is no good reason to believe any god exists. As mentioned above, I looked into other religions. I've also examined the arguments for deistic gods, and those all fail, too.

Additionally, the recent confirmation of the Standard Model of particle physics demonstrates that the supernatural has no room to exist in the everyday world--such is the fundamental nature of reality.

As a result, I feel comfortable taking the strong atheist position: There is no God.


Ok so I went ahead and watched that entire 49:37 video. Felt like a waste of time since it didn't demonstrate the impossibility of a godly being. Anyway the whole concept of "supernatural" is meaningless. If something exist in this world, then it is a natural part of the world. Calling something "supernatural" is to define it as impossible to begin with. But yea..
Here is the part of the video you seem to have forgotten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Vrs-Azp0i3k#t=2264s
Listen well to the few next words he says.
Through near the end he does deny quite a lot of things and his explanation is cause they don't work with the concept that everything is physical in the world. Well here is what I would tell him. Not everything is physical. He will not be able to deny that possibility with facts and such. And that possibility open the door to many other things.

Also Here is the definition of a godly being that you cannot deny with either logic. Image a godly being who created the world. That godly being is neither all powerful or all knowledgeble. It got some degree of overly strong power but the power is not Omnipotence. It got plenty of knowledge but it isn't omnicience. After it created the world, it left it, hence it doesn't exist in our universe anymore.

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