Jesus Saves All? Or Only Some?

[SilkyNums]

Inscriven

Christian morality does NOT support that in any way. Christianity is a belief system that has absolute morality.

Good cannot be done by committing evil, no matter how well intentioned. That's why conservatives are against euthanasia, even if the person is in massive pain.

but they're perfectly okay with bombing the heck out of middle Eastern folk. dramallama

[Inscriven]

Kaniskion

Inscriven

Christian morality does NOT support that in any way. Christianity is a belief system that has absolute morality.

Good cannot be done by committing evil, no matter how well intentioned. That's why conservatives are against euthanasia, even if the person is in massive pain.

but they're perfectly okay with bombing the heck out of middle Eastern folk. dramallama

*shurg* People have always done whatever they wanted that serves their interests.

Muslims wage holy wars against people the quran call the people of the book because of politics and moral supremacy and control of entire polulations by fear.
A bunch of Jews in Israel who barely escaped being gassed or shot in the head because of their ethnicity apparently have no problem ethnically cleasing land that they've shared for centuries.
A jackass monk in Burma is advocating violence against a muslim minority because of buddhist jingoist nationalism conveniently forgetting that advocating violence and death is an immediate expulsion from monkhood for the rest of his life and another guaranteed go around in the cycle of suffering.

The religion isn't really the problem so much as people are just self serving assholes.

[crimsin eyes]

Lela XX

First I'll start with a little from this article: FIFTEEN BOMBS THAT SANK MY THEOLOGICAL SHIP at
http://www.saviourofall.org/Writings/fifteenbombs.html.

The author tells this story first:

When conducting evangelistic services in a community hall, I visited the home of a man, some of whose children had been saved at the meetings. I asked him if he would accept Christ as his personal Saviour. He looked at the ground, and I hoped he would decide favorably, but when he looked up and spoke he set me thinking. His voice was slow and intense. “If the way you preach is right, then one of my boys is in hell now, and if that is where he is, I want to be there.” That man wasn’t fooling; he meant it.
My second shock came when a friend in Pennsylvania gave me a book called, “After the Thousand Years,” by George F. Trench. Although I could not accept all the views of the author, I became convinced of two things, namely, that there is no word for “eternity” in the Greek or Hebrew Scriptures, and that the plainest teaching of the Word of God has been obscured by incorrect and inconsistent translation of the Greek word aion. It cannot possibly mean “eternity,” for consistency would force us into such senseless renderings as “the present eternity,” and “before eternity” (see 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:21. Furthermore, a consistent rendering of the word in Hebrews 9:26 would give us the contradictory phrase: “at the conclusion of the eternity.” Yet a note in the Scofield Bible allayed my fears.
My third shock, the one that really jarred me loose from the binding tradition and the fear of men, came when a railroad engineer and a police sergeant who had been impressed with my faithfulness in preaching the Word of God as I then understood it, came to see me. We talked for nearly four hours. When they left I found I had used up all the heavy amunition I had gathered in college, seminary and twenty years of conformity to the “fundamentalist” and “evangelical” hierarchy. I couldn’t seem to be able to find their range, and when I did find it, my big gun, the King James Version, jammed. Fifteen bombs exploded on my deck, wrecking my fine theological system.

Then he lists numerous questions and answers.

About 20 years ago, I guess, there was a woman in Florida, I think, who had her 5 young children in the family car. She drove to a pond or lake and pushed the car in to drown the children. I believe her reason was because she thought there was a good chance that some or all of them would sin and go to everlasting hell, if they were allowed to grow up. Based on conventional church teachings, she was right. It's better for people to die young in innocence, than to reach maturity and then die and go to eternal hell, if hell is what they say it is.

In a web search just now I see this headline: Andrea Yates, the Texas woman who drowned her 5 children. It says in 2001 she drowned them in the bathtub one at a time, so maybe she drowned them there before driving their bodies into the pond or lake. I remember seeing the news story on tv, unless it was a different case.

Jesus paid the price for all mankind. Salvation has been paid for and is availbale to all. Yet we have choice and get to choose it. I believe that is the question your asking

[Limonchiki]

ugh... ok so probably nobody who isn't Christian cares about my opinion of Christianity, and most Christians probably don't either especially if they don't like profanities

"Getting Saved (TM)" aggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhasdfghjkl;

but generally I'll say that it's not really healthy to think of one's spiritual relationships in terms of crime/punishment

[ChuckBreezy]

Jesus saves all who cry out his name in the dark, and who truly seeks him out in the path of light

[rainbowlady1]

stealthmongoose

It is for this reason that I find religion to be inadequate when attempting to define morality, unless the religion in question accepts that every other religion and mythology/fable has the same hat in the same ring.

; You might want to take a look at this book if you haven't already wink .

THE MESSAGE THAT COMES FROM EVERYWHERE - Exploring the Common Core of the World's Religions and Modern Science, By Gary Beckwith.

Starting on pg 68, section "Unity -- not a New Idea (excerpts and direct quotes)

"I am a Christian and a Hindu and a Muslim and a Jew" -- Mahatma Ghandi

"God made the truth with many doors" -- Kahlil Gibran

"I feel that this world has to drop the idea that one religion is true and the others are not true" --- Kathleen Raine, Poet

"Scripture itself testifies that God does not take into account our petty categories of race or religion or denomination when He has a message for mankind. Each of us, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, Jew, Native American, Feminist, can be a vehicle for the word of God" --- Rabbi Steve Fornstein

"Muslim, Christian, or Jew, all turn their eyes to the Eternal One" --- Sufi writing

"Veda, Avesta, Bible, Al-Quran, Temple, Pagoda, Church and Kaba-Stone, all these and more my heart doth close embrace, since my Religion now is Love alone" ... Sufi writing

[stealthmongoose]

rainbowlady1

stealthmongoose

It is for this reason that I find religion to be inadequate when attempting to define morality, unless the religion in question accepts that every other religion and mythology/fable has the same hat in the same ring.

; You might want to take a look at this book if you haven't already wink .

THE MESSAGE THAT COMES FROM EVERYWHERE - Exploring the Common Core of the World's Religions and Modern Science, By Gary Beckwith.

Starting on pg 68, section "Unity -- not a New Idea (excerpts and direct quotes)

"I am a Christian and a Hindu and a Muslim and a Jew" -- Mahatma Ghandi

"God made the truth with many doors" -- Kahlil Gibran

"I feel that this world has to drop the idea that one religion is true and the others are not true" --- Kathleen Raine, Poet

"Scripture itself testifies that God does not take into account our petty categories of race or religion or denomination when He has a message for mankind. Each of us, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, Jew, Native American, Feminist, can be a vehicle for the word of God" --- Rabbi Steve Fornstein

"Muslim, Christian, or Jew, all turn their eyes to the Eternal One" --- Sufi writing

"Veda, Avesta, Bible, Al-Quran, Temple, Pagoda, Church and Kaba-Stone, all these and more my heart doth close embrace, since my Religion now is Love alone" ... Sufi writing

Why does the message that comes from everywhere insist on monotheism?

[Lucky~9~Lives]

stealthmongoose

Why does the message that comes from everywhere insist on monotheism?

There's only one everywhere.

[stealthmongoose]

Lucky~9~Lives

stealthmongoose

Why does the message that comes from everywhere insist on monotheism?

There's only one everywhere.

F*cking taoists.

[rainbowlady1]

stealthmongoose

rainbowlady1

stealthmongoose

It is for this reason that I find religion to be inadequate when attempting to define morality, unless the religion in question accepts that every other religion and mythology/fable has the same hat in the same ring.

; You might want to take a look at this book if you haven't already wink .

THE MESSAGE THAT COMES FROM EVERYWHERE - Exploring the Common Core of the World's Religions and Modern Science, By Gary Beckwith.

Starting on pg 68, section "Unity -- not a New Idea (excerpts and direct quotes)

"I am a Christian and a Hindu and a Muslim and a Jew" -- Mahatma Ghandi

"God made the truth with many doors" -- Kahlil Gibran

"I feel that this world has to drop the idea that one religion is true and the others are not true" --- Kathleen Raine, Poet

"Scripture itself testifies that God does not take into account our petty categories of race or religion or denomination when He has a message for mankind. Each of us, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, Jew, Native American, Feminist, can be a vehicle for the word of God" --- Rabbi Steve Fornstein

"Muslim, Christian, or Jew, all turn their eyes to the Eternal One" --- Sufi writing

"Veda, Avesta, Bible, Al-Quran, Temple, Pagoda, Church and Kaba-Stone, all these and more my heart doth close embrace, since my Religion now is Love alone" ... Sufi writing

Why does the message that comes from everywhere insist on monotheism?

Well it also includes the perspective of science as well ... as in it all started as a singularity at the beginning, and the expansion of the universe from there ... think of it, do you think "one god made this area, another made another area? Or maybe "the whole was made by one" is more accurate. Polytheistic societies have broken down that One according to their culture and beliefs, but it is just aspects of the Whole. Check out the story of "The Blind Men and the Elephant" wink . Nobody is wrong, they are just in touch with one of the aspects of the whole. The observer in the story sees the elephant in its entirety wink .

Now, no matter what anybody says of YOU, only YOU are YOU right? Just because they say something differently, or think a certain way about YOU .... doesn't mean there is more than one of you. You are a special and unique part of the universe. There is no one exactly like you, maybe quite similar, but only YOU are YOU.

In that line of thinking, the great creator of the universe, is .... One. No matter how mankind has chosen by faith, cultural beliefs, personal beliefs, societal rules, doctrines, rituals, perceptions, etc. The truth is ONE, but it has many names. The One made everything that is, it is only humankind that chooses religions on how to worship that which IS.

[stealthmongoose]

rainbowlady1

stealthmongoose

rainbowlady1

stealthmongoose

It is for this reason that I find religion to be inadequate when attempting to define morality, unless the religion in question accepts that every other religion and mythology/fable has the same hat in the same ring.

; You might want to take a look at this book if you haven't already wink .

THE MESSAGE THAT COMES FROM EVERYWHERE - Exploring the Common Core of the World's Religions and Modern Science, By Gary Beckwith.

Starting on pg 68, section "Unity -- not a New Idea (excerpts and direct quotes)

"I am a Christian and a Hindu and a Muslim and a Jew" -- Mahatma Ghandi

"God made the truth with many doors" -- Kahlil Gibran

"I feel that this world has to drop the idea that one religion is true and the others are not true" --- Kathleen Raine, Poet

"Scripture itself testifies that God does not take into account our petty categories of race or religion or denomination when He has a message for mankind. Each of us, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, Jew, Native American, Feminist, can be a vehicle for the word of God" --- Rabbi Steve Fornstein

"Muslim, Christian, or Jew, all turn their eyes to the Eternal One" --- Sufi writing

"Veda, Avesta, Bible, Al-Quran, Temple, Pagoda, Church and Kaba-Stone, all these and more my heart doth close embrace, since my Religion now is Love alone" ... Sufi writing

Why does the message that comes from everywhere insist on monotheism?

Well it also includes the perspective of science as well ... as in it all started as a singularity at the beginning, and the expansion of the universe from there ... think of it, do you think "one god made this area, another made another area? Or maybe "the whole was made by one" is more accurate. Polytheistic societies have broken down that One according to their culture and beliefs, but it is just aspects of the Whole. Check out the story of "The Blind Men and the Elephant" wink . Nobody is wrong, they are just in touch with one of the aspects of the whole. The observer in the story sees the elephant in its entirety wink .

Now, no matter what anybody says of YOU, only YOU are YOU right? Just because they say something differently, or think a certain way about YOU .... doesn't mean there is more than one of you. You are a special and unique part of the universe. There is no one exactly like you, maybe quite similar, but only YOU are YOU.

In that line of thinking, the great creator of the universe, is .... One. No matter how mankind has chosen by faith, cultural beliefs, personal beliefs, societal rules, doctrines, rituals, perceptions, etc. The truth is ONE, but it has many names. The One made everything that is, it is only humankind that chooses religions on how to worship that which IS.

You lost me when you asserted that The Big Bang was caused by a single variable. That variable in the instance of your argument being equatable to an anthropomorphic superstition.

I understand where you're coming from. You want all answers to be equally respectable, but sometimes when two points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one or more sides to simply be wrong.

[rainbowlady1]

stealthmongoose

I understand where you're coming from. You want all answers to be equally respectable, but sometimes when two points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one or more sides to simply be wrong.

So true xd . There was a time, when most people thought the earth was flat, because they saw the sky and earth meet at the horizon. Then they went exploring in ships, and kept going and going, until it was apparent they weren't going to just "fall off the edge" and eventually found through navigational means, that the earth was a sphere. Maps made, globes made. But STILL, there were some that had to be brought kicking and screaming into that reality, still believing it was flat, even in the face of truth and fact.

We don't KNOW all the answers, and perhaps it's just too much for our human brains to wrap around, but we still seek. I just try to have an open mind, in case I miss a point of truth that is important for my understanding, and add another piece to that great puzzle of being smile . Seeking truth can be subjective and also objective. We all have personal truths, and there are universal ones as well wink . And I realize that each has their own way to deal with that, so who am I to say they are wrong? It may not be for ME, and wrong for ME, but I can't speak for anyone else xd .