is abortion a right thing to do?

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Methcalarjalope

No, abortion is NOT the "right thing to do."

Of course, given that I am pro-choice, I happen to disagree.

Methcalarjalope

Your heart already knows this which is why you pose the question.

This strikes me as arrogant and presumptuous.

Methcalarjalope

Sadly their are ectopic pregancies that must be terminated. There are urgent emergencies when the fetus must perish.

But this is always a time of mourning and those who do not mourn the loss of this precious life will suffer many years in denial until they are at last free to mourn and be reconciled for the loss and sorrow they have experienced.

You will substantiate this claim, won't you?

[Foxglow]

Methcalarjalope

No, abortion is NOT the "right thing to do." Your heart already knows this which is why you pose the question.

Sadly their are ectopic pregancies that must be terminated. There are urgent emergencies when the fetus must perish.

But this is always a time of mourning and those who do not mourn the loss of this precious life will suffer many years in denial until they are at last free to mourn and be reconciled for the loss and sorrow they have experienced.

Also, to forgive those involved with the abortion is also necessary to peace of mind and reconciliation. heart

How do you 'know' all this? Have you ever had an abortion? Or do you just arrongantly assume you know what everyone else is thinking and feeling?

Abortion sometimes is not a sad time. Sometimes, it's a great relief.

How do you explain that a high proportion of abortions are performed on married women who already have children. Surely, if they loved children enough to have already had them, and they could imagine the mourning involved in losing a child, they would not be aborting?

Personally, I think you need to stop being so insufferably arrogant.

[Methcalarjalope]

Asexual-Slut~Enya

Methcalarjalope

No, abortion is NOT the "right thing to do."

Of course, given that I am pro-choice, I happen to disagree.

Methcalarjalope

Your heart already knows this which is why you pose the question.

This strikes me as arrogant and presumptuous.

Methcalarjalope

Sadly their are ectopic pregancies that must be terminated. There are urgent emergencies when the fetus must perish.

But this is always a time of mourning and those who do not mourn the loss of this precious life will suffer many years in denial until they are at last free to mourn and be reconciled for the loss and sorrow they have experienced.

You will substantiate this claim, won't you?

The OP has asked for people to give their opinion and I have done so.

You are the only one who has spoken to me respectfully and yes, Enya, I will do my best this day to substantiate this claim and to elaborate further on my points.

My statement about the heart is perhaps presumptuous. However, it does not derive from any kind of arrogance, but only from the deepest humility and a honest heart.


People do tend to project themselves on to others. So you see, I have projected a goodness of heart and the suffering and sadness that this topic brings to the wider world of women. Very few are "relieved" and even then, the karma comes back to haunt them much later in their lives. Westerners forget about archtypes and sacred spaces and taboo violations and how these affect the psyche.

There is much deniel and animus and hostility which is coming from the aboriton rights people far and away more virulently than from your opposition.

Some of these posts come from the children of alcoholics. Some just come from children. One I suspect comes from a kind of drunkard.

[Methcalarjalope]

paper_phoenix

Methcalarjalope

Surely, regarding judgement: I am forbidden to make judgements when it comes to the motive and heart of a person and their worth before Allah.

I am free to make judgements about actions all day long.

Why the differention between motives and actions? Isn't judging one the same as the other? And where in the Qu'ran does it state that you have the right to judge anyone at all with impunity?

Quote:

Look at the judgement that Shaviv just made regarding who should pro-create?

What Shaviv stated was not a judgment; it was a comment on the mental and emotional maturity of those who claim that the choice to abort is one made lightly that you chose to interpret as a judgment.

Contested.



Shaviv did make a judgement and all the ones posting that I am arrogant are making the worst KIND of judgement as you are juging my heart and my motives. That is just nasty! You people are UNBELIEVEABLE! Who do you think you are to sit in judgement of me? I have the right just like any other GAIAN TO POST ON THIS THREAD!

JUST BECAUSE I AM A MUSLIM ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME ARE YOU ARE IMPLYING THAT I AM A TERRORIST???

You are ARROGANT behond BELIEF!

Do you dare to tell the Muslims what the Holy Quoran is saying?!!!
Furthermore, you are very ignorant of the Holy Quoran. If you think the Quoran is anythng like the New Testament or if you THINK that I am going to be humble like a CHRISITAN and lap up your outrages, then you have another thing coming.

ABORTION IS HARAM IN ISLAM. YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS?

THE JURISTS OF ALLAH HAVE SPOKEN. END OF STORY.

HOW DARE YOU TRY TO INSULT ME WITH YOUR WHINING AND MANIPULATION???

[Shaviv]

I know of your holy book.

I haven't read it.

But it's no different from any other holy book in one very important way:

It's just the collected musings and legends of human beings.

Oh, sometimes the musings of human beings are very wise. I do not dispute this. I feel that Adam Smith's monograph, The Theory of the Moral Sentiments, is one such work. But I do not feel that Adam Smith should be my guide in life, nor that his books should be.

Basically, because you follow an organized religion in a way that demands doctrinaire obedience rather than adherence to principles, I think you are being very foolish, as well as incredibly presumptive and arrogant in telling others that you can make judgments for them better than they can for themselves.

Furthermore, you use circular logic. You know that you can make judgments for others better than they can for themselves. How do you know? You know, because they judge things differently from the way you would. And, of course, you know what is right for them better than they do.

And you have also, in the course of this thread, deliberately misinterpreted my statements, which is pretty low of you.

Why should I think charitably of you, beyond the basic fact of our common humanity?

[Methcalarjalope]

Shaviv

I know of your holy book.

I haven't read it.

But it's no different from any other holy book in one very important way:

It's just the collected musings and legends of human beings.

Oh, sometimes the musings of human beings are very wise. I do not dispute this. I feel that Adam Smith's monograph, The Theory of the Moral Sentiments, is one such work. But I do not feel that Adam Smith should be my guide in life, nor that his books should be.

Basically, because you follow an organized religion in a way that demands doctrinaire obedience rather than adherence to principles, I think you are being very foolish, as well as incredibly presumptive and arrogant in telling others that you can make judgments for them better than they can for themselves.

Furthermore, you use circular logic. You know that you can make judgments for others better than they can for themselves. How do you know? You know, because they judge things differently from the way you would. And, of course, you know what is right for them better than they do.

And you have also, in the course of this thread, deliberately misinterpreted my statements, which is pretty low of you.

Why should I think charitably of you, beyond the basic fact of our common humanity?

I did not mean much of the above statement I was mirroring back to you what you have said to me.

I did not "deliberately" misinterpreted any of your statements. I rather feel that it is you, Shaviv who is misinterpreting mine, but I would not sink so low as to accuse you of this.

[Methcalarjalope]

This is the kind of circular logic that I have observed on the abortion topics.

If you haven't had an abortion, you don't know what you are talking about, because you lack experience.

If you have had an abortion, you are whining and using emotion to manipulate and therefore you don't know what you are talking about.

Circular logic is your forte not mine. I am highly logical. You are the one trumping the emotion card.

The answer to every opinion that is not in lockstep with abortion at any stage of fetal development is the charge of arrogance.

I really don't mind being called arrogant, because no one but abortion advocates call me this.

When you say the opposite of what you mean, and use sarcasm, I am at a loss because I do not use sarcasm.

The above post I self-reported, because to me it is flaming. However it is the rhetorical style of the good men and women of this topic who are abortion advocates.

By comparison, my original post in answer to this question, is purely my opinion and it is compassionate by comparison to the reception I have received.

Why are you so threatened by my having an alternative opinion from yours.

As stated before on another thread, the criminalization of murder is beyond the scope of this debate. This is a moral debate and morally abortion is rarely "good."

[Methcalarjalope]

Quote:

Why should I think charitably of you, beyond the basic fact of our common humanity?

Common humanity is enough of a reason. I would attempt to treat you better than you have treated me. But I need to post your own style to get your attention.

The other posts are from young women who are learning poor communication and debating strategies. For piling on and insulting and accusing and hurling insults at your opponents is NOT going to persuade them to change their views.

Some people are so stubborn that if you insult them, they will just dig in their heels and refuse to see your points, even if they are valid points.

I know this perfectly well from debating the Mormons!

[maenad nuri]

Meth, it seems to me that your argument is based on "individual people regret their decisions" with a dash of people should weigh their options more carefully. This is not a new phenomena, and certainly not limited to abortion.

We could as easily link you to I'm Not Sorry, but then where will we be?

Sure, in Islam Abortion is Haram. Fine, then muslims should really be careful about abortion and the what-not. There's probably a real cultural reason that women who get abortion in that religion have issues afterwards.

But we aren't all muslim, nor do most of of wish to be. It doesn't suit us. Why should we be bound by your religions thoughts on abortion?

[Shaviv]

My "circular logic" comes from this desire of mine:

That, before you discuss abortion, you very seriously do your homework. That means sitting down and thinking seriously about what you would do if you got pregnant when you did not want to have a child, could not afford the perinatal medical care, could not afford to feed another mouth, could not afford to love another soul; or what you would do if someone you cared about came to you and said this.

In all honesty, I can't say I see any evidence of that from you.

I don't judge you for the content of your decisions. But I judge you for the presentation of them, in which you cast everyone who disagrees with you as either deluded or practically demonic.

[Methcalarjalope]

Nuri

Meth, it seems to me that your argument is based on "individual people regret their decisions" with a dash of people should weigh their options more carefully. This is not a new phenomena, and certainly not limited to abortion.

We could as easily link you to I'm Not Sorry, but then where will we be?

Sure, in Islam Abortion is Haram. Fine, then muslims should really be careful about abortion and the what-not. There's probably a real cultural reason that women who get abortion in that religion have issues afterwards.

But we aren't all muslim, nor do most of of wish to be. It doesn't suit us. Why should we be bound by your religions thoughts on abortion?

4laugh gotcha!

See, Nuri, where did I say you were bound by my religous thoughts? I never said that once except in my fakey blast back post!


LoL!!!

[Methcalarjalope]

Shaviv

My "circular logic" comes from this desire of mine:

That, before you discuss abortion, you very seriously do your homework. That means sitting down and thinking seriously about what you would do if you got pregnant when you did not want to have a child, could not afford the perinatal medical care, could not afford to feed another mouth, could not afford to love another soul; or what you would do if someone you cared about came to you and said this.

In all honesty, I can't say I see any evidence of that from you.

I don't judge you for the content of your decisions. But I judge you for the presentation of them, in which you cast everyone who disagrees with you as either deluded or practically demonic.

I only think that way when I am tired and grumpy.

[Shaviv]

Oh, wait.

So you're just posting bullshit you don't actually endorse to get people annoyed with you?

There's a word for that. It's in the site's Terms of Service.

Please don't do it.