is abortion a right thing to do?

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

toki546

I have a choice to kill people or not to. Why would you try and limit my freedom to do that? Because it would hurt you and that is not what you desire so you would make it so if i tried to kill you i would get punished. that is called government.

but the little unborn babies are defenseless and they can't enter politics to try to make legislation that they can't be killed so other people (adults) should do all that stuff for the unborn babies just because it's a nice thing to do.

murder is against the law, abortion isn't. a fetus is also non-sentient and not a person. NOTHING and NO ONE has the right to use a person's body against their will.

[Holly_Trinity]

yengers

i don't think abortion is the answer for any unwated pregnancy...remember that you're killing a child when you do that...much more killing you're own child...if you're not ready with it you might thought about it in the first place...
actually it's not a solution...its just another problem...and anything that is bad is not an answer to an existing problem...

Your kidnapped, drugged and raped by ten men and then your relesed to nearby woods to survive. When found, you go to the doctor who tells you that you are with child. Are you a happy single mom? biggrin well of course YOU are...

I think in EVERY case it's a womans choice and that should be a law. Yes, when in marridge the husband should have a say but it's always up to the mother to be. Why? Because the men can come and go but it's in 95% of the time that the mom is the one "stuck" with the baby.
And there are situations when the mother just simply can't take care of the baby and the only safe thing to do is to terminate the pregnancy. What if, for some reason, the mother is paralyzed, in a coma or mentally ill and would pose a thread to the baby or the baby when born would have to be adopted?
My point in this is that every child has the right to be born as a wanted child. Accident, IV... what ever. If the baby is a wanted child it has a better change of a happy childhood and a whole family.

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Marauder_Slade

I already did; I said I believe it is wrong to kill it & gave you the reasons why I think so, because the bible says so. It is a matter of opinion & you are free to have a different one.

You haven't explained your stance within the appropriate context, however.

That is, how could you possibly justify the judicious application of lethal force under circumstances that don't, necessarily, involve a direct violation of bodily integrity/autonomy/domain (merely a risk) and, yet, not justify the same in the case of an abortion?

Marauder_Slade

I suggest you change the quote of your dogma "A consent to sexual intercourse does not imply a given consent to pregnancy or, further, to the continuation of said pregnancy should it occur." so that I cannot apply it to men being able to demand abortions then.

The statement, itself, refers to direct bodily invasion -- it is, contextually, implied that it does not apply to men. You are the first, in my four/five years debating the issue, to have an issue with the distinction -- I don't think it is necessary to change it.

Marauder_Slade

I don't see why what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

Never mind that the metaphorical gander does not bear the burden of actually carrying the embryo/fetus to term.

Marauder_Slade

Applying your first sentance to my argument just because you believe it is a fact that a woman has the right to her bodily integrity/autonomy/domain more than the baby inside her does not make it so.

No, it doesn't; however, our society is constructed on the notion that personal integrity/autonomy/domain exists and, further, that it is the backbone of all legislation regarding human rights.

Marauder_Slade

We are talking about what we believe, as I said no 2 people on this board aggree what "right" & "wrong" is - I am free to believe whatever I want is a fact & you are free to dissagree. I believe the definition of "Murder" is a God construct. The bible told us what murder was & not to do it long before there was an united states of america & it will continue to do so long after this country has gone the way of all lost civilizations.

Believe what you will, but if you stand in my way, I am free to, metaphorically, cut you down.

Marauder_Slade

I already asked her to change the quote of her dogma to indicate that.

FYI, I am male.

[Arkaroth-Gorrath]

Why ruin 3 lives?

[Manirak]

Arkaroth-Gorrath

Why ruin 3 lives?

Exactly why I'm pro-choice.

[Singing Seraph]

The only time I think abortion is "the right thing to do" it's when the mother is going to die in childbirth and the baby's going to die anyway. That's when it's "right". So you save one life instead of letting two lives be destroyed.

[Eduardus]

finest fixture the one in case that do is assume our accountabilities.

In theend , is saying of a baby.

[Masturbating_Rot_Crow]

singingserif

The only time I think abortion is "the right thing to do" it's when the mother is going to die in childbirth and the baby's going to die anyway. That's when it's "right". So you save one life instead of letting two lives be destroyed.

So if the mother was going to die but the fetus was perfectly fine, would you sacrafce her life to something that doesn't even know it exists?
What about if the mother would be severly handicapped, such as the woman who lost all four of her limbs to child-birth side effects? She's a single mom with four kids now, but how is she supopsed to take care of them?
Or what if the mother was perfectly healthy and the child would live for a little while, but it would be born without a brain stem and have up to 40 seizures on average a day and have a lazy stomach and be so mentally retarded that when it died 18 months later after draning the parents of all their money it still didn't recognize them? Could a woman abort then?
I'm not even getting into the lesser cases, I'm just asking if abortion is okay in matters that aren't as dire as your's.

[Masturbating_Rot_Crow]

Eduardus

finest fixture the one in case that do is assume our accountabilities.

In theend , is saying of a baby.

Huh?

[Yumikuro]

It should be a choice. A woman should be able to come to the decision whether or not an abortion is appropriate. When freedom is taken away, I feel it is horrid, and abortion is one of those things that should be a free choice. I do not think it is right for everyone, but I hardly think it is fair for religion to be a driving force behind removing a choice.

[Marauder_Slade]

DemonessOfSorrow

whether or not it's ok is subjective.

Myythren

Its about what is right for the women in question.

Asexual-Slut~Enya

That depends, largely, on the circumstances.

If there are no moral absolutes then canibalism & petofilia & necrofilia should be ok in cirtain "circumstances".


79.6% of custodial mothers receive a support award
29.9% of custodial fathers receive a support award

46.9% of non-custodial mothers totally default on support
26.9% of non-custodial fathers totally default on support

20.0% of non-custodial mothers pay support at some level
61.0% of non-custodial fathers pay support at some level

So it looks like men are more righteous with the money - so no wonder you want to have an abortion - you dont want to pay the man support if he takes the kid.

66.2% of single custodial mothers work less than full-time
10.2% of single custodial fathers work less than full-time

7.0% of single custodial mothers work more than 44 hours weekly
24.5% of single custodial fathers work more than 44 hours weekly

46.2% of single custodial mothers receive public assistance
20.8% of single custodial fathers receive public assistance
Statistical Source: Technical Analysis Paper No. 42 - U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services - Office of Income Security Policy


90.2% of fathers with joint custody pay all the support due
79.1% of fathers with visitation privileges pay all the support due
44.5% of fathers with no visitation pay all the support due
37.9% of fathers are denied any visitation
66.0% of all support not paid by non-custodial fathers is due to inability to pay
Statistical Source: 1988 Census "Child Support and Alimony: 1989 Series P-60, No. 173 p. 6-7. and U.S. General Accounting Office Report" GAO/HRD-92-39FS January, 1992


50% of mothers see no value in the father's continued contact with his children.
--See "Surviving the Breakup" by Joan Berlin Kelly


40% of mothers reported that they had interfered with the father's visitation to punish their ex-spouse.
--See "Frequency of Visitation...." by Stanford Braver, American Journal of Orthopsychiatry

I wouldnt be surprised if some of you got abortions to prevent any future visitation & punish us as well.

There are: 11,268,000 total U.S. custodial mothers and 2,907,000 total U.S. custodial fathers
--Current Population Reports, U.S. Bureau of the Census, Series P-20, No. 458, 1991

Holly_Trinity

95% of the time that the mom is the one "stuck" with the baby.

According to the numbers above it looks like 1 in 6 single parent homes has a father in 1991 a far cry from 95%. If it were up to you I guess those close to 3 million fathers would never have had the joy of hearing their child tell them "I love you".


Juveniles committed to juvenile prisons (Texas):

Less than 1% are from single father homes
20% are from 2-parent homes
79% are from fatherless homes

so it looks like when the father gets a hold of the child he does a better job at raising the kid in question. So thats another reason you want abortions to not let anyone know what a failure of a parent you would be, & to not give the father a chance to do better.

[Ashley the Bee]

Marauder_Slade

If there are no moral absolutes then canibalism & petofilia & necrofilia should be ok in cirtain "circumstances".

Under certain circumstances cannibalism should be. If an individual dies from some traumatic injury, and it could help that person's companions from starving. How likely is this situation to occur? Not very.

Do you mean "*****" and "necrophilia"?

In either case, the problem is not with the state of having, for example, *****, which is simply a preference for very young individuals. The problem is that acting on those feelings endangers a child's welfare. If the individual does not take their preference beyond roleplay, or it is limited to, say, CG artwork, what is the problem?

EDIT: Aside from that, if there are moral absolutes, then what are they?

Marauder_Slade

So it looks like men are more righteous with the money - so no wonder you want to have an abortion - you dont want to pay the man support if he takes the kid.

Please show the discrepancy is due to men being more "righteous".

Marauder_Slade

I wouldnt be surprised if some of you got abortions to prevent any future visitation & punish us as well.

Please provide proof.

Marauder_Slade

According to the numbers above it looks like 1 in 6 single parent homes has a father in 1991 a far cry from 95%. If it were up to you I guess those close to 3 million fathers would never have had the joy of hearing their child tell them "I love you".

83% -- still a "vast majority" on any scale.

[ayame the wolf girl]

Abortion isnt wrong in any way. As long as its done in the first trimester.

Everyone who is pro life, the only thing you are thinking about is giving that child a "life", but you dont stop and think what kind of "life" is going to have. Not that you care anyway right? As long as it lives. Let the mother take care of that.

Well a mother wants the best life for her children, and if she knows she wont be able to give it, then its better to terminate the pregnancy.

A fetus in the first trimester can NOT think or feel. Its brain is not fully developed. A dog feels more than a fetus, and we kill millions each year.


And for those who say "well you gotta take responsability of your mistakes", well i wouldnt want my child to pay for MY mistake. Or be the result of one.