is abortion a right thing to do?

[The Great Lina Inverse]

Marauder_Slade

I dissagree if an unwanted/unknown child of mine is running around on the face of the planet it is a serious violation of my integrity & domain. There is a possibility that I have a child from a 1 night stand & never had the opprotunity to meet him/her; because I was raised never meeting my father I desired to never put another life though that, but I may have due to circumstances. stressed

Then perhaps you should be aware of your sexual encounters and be aware that pregnancy can, does, and will happen. Whether planned or not. But just because you wish to have it go one way doesn't mean that the woman you are with MUST follow. If you want to terminate a pregnancy but she does not, her decision over-rides yours. You may not like it, but biology dictates that since it is her body, her nutrients, her blood that is creating this creature, because she is dedicating 9 months of her life, her body, her existance, to the creation of another being, she is the sole decider of her, and her fetii's, fate.

Marauder_Slade

I wasn't asking that, I was suggesting that if it is her will to have the child & his will to terminate then a termination should ensue because "A consent to sexual intercourse does not imply a given consent to pregnancy or, further, to the continuation of said pregnancy should it occur." - your own words.

Also as we read earlier in this forum, there are possible undesireable side-effects to both pregnancy & abortion.

Wrong. As I have said before, since the woman is giving 90% of all that is needed for the fetus, she makes the majority of the decision. Since men cannot become pregnancy, the statement by Asexual doesn't apply to them.

Marauder_Slade

I don't tell you what to do, so I would appreciate the same curtesy. I don't believe in Dogma I believe in God who I believe used humans to write the bible. You can base your opinions on "logic" if you want; so do I; only difference is I base my "logic" on the premise that the bible is the word of God & that it is always true - "let God be true, but every man a liar" (Rom 3:4).

First of all:

Dogma: n. 1. a system of principles or tenets, as of a church. 2. a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption. 3. prescribed doctrine: political dogma. 4. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle

Second of all, religion in a debate become null and void, as it is not a universally followed doctrine. I do not follow your bible, I do not believe in your god. Therefore, any basis, any statement that you make with bibilcal references is irrelevant.

Thirdly, prove that the word of God is always true. And without bibilcal reference, as it has already been shown, by not just myself but many others, to be an invalid source for debate.

Marauder_Slade

I dissagree there are multiple passages that state that child killing is wrong & against the will of God "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." (Jer 7:31) like I said there is no difference in the humanity of a baby before or after it's born so if in the old days they did their abortions after birth & nowadays we do ours before birth makes no difference to me.

Oh really? God killed the firstborn sons of all the men of Egypt. God commanded Abraham to kill his son, Jacob. God decreed to Abraham that whenever he did a census, no children under the age of 1 month were to be included.

So not only did God promote, and inact, homicide, but he also does not see children under the age of 1 month to be considered people for census.

Marauder_Slade

Opinion based on what? Have you even read the bible? It appears you have made a judgement based on heresay.

On the fact that the Bible cannot be validated as an actual historical text. That has been manipulated, reworded, and defiled by many a monk and priest for hundreds of years, so we don't know what the ACTUAL text may have said. We have bastardized it to the point that we've got several dozen different types of bibles, each of which have different saying, meanings, and scriptures.

And, seeing that I HAVE read the bible and still do not consider is a valid ethical text, I base my opinion on my personal experience.

Marauder_Slade

I am just stating opinions & asking questions - I do not feel it nessisary to defend any opinion of mine, any defence avaliable was already provided when I gave you scriptures in previous posts. If you refuse to acknoledge them then there are no words that I can say to add.

Scripture that I do not believe in or follow. Therefore, why it is valid to me? You cannot enforce your religiously based views because, as I've said before, it is not universally believed by all, and therefore becomes invalid the second a person raises their hand and declare that your beliefs are not their own. Just because you claim to have scripture, doesn't mean that it is fact.

Marauder_Slade

You think it is ironic that XxemotionalychallengedxX said that they won't judge right after they made a judgement that abortion = murder; however I agree that abortion = murder & that it is not an opinon or a judgement call, but rather a fact. I think perhaps what XxemotionalychallengedxX was trying to say is contained in this scripture "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." 1 Cor 14:38.

Your may think abortion equates to murder, but just because you think that way doesn't mean it is. Murder is a legal definition that, no matter how hard you try, doesn't change. And abortion fails as murder because murder is the..

1) illegal killing
2) of another person
3) with premidated malice

Abortion is not illegal, there is no other person involved (fetii are not granted the status of personhood until birthed) and there is no known premeditated malice felt towards the fetus by the mother.

So, your claims of abortin = murder means that you fail. Utterly and sadly.

[The Dark Thought]

Marauder_Slade

The Dark Thought

"build your opinion on facts, not religious dogma"

I don't tell you what to do, so I would appreciate the same curtesy. I don't believe in Dogma I believe in God who I believe used humans to write the bible. You can base your opinions on "logic" if you want; so do I; only difference is I base my "logic" on the premise that the bible is the word of God & that it is always true - "let God be true, but every man a liar" (Rom 3:4).

Dogma: (noun) a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. (Source: Dictionary.com)

Do not confuse simply submitting to a higher authority to be logical, whether it be man or God. If one is asked to do something irrational by a higher power, then it is still irrational. To obey/trust blindly is, on its own, irrational, as the act has no support for the actions. Use knowledge, data, and logic and your opinions will be solid.

Marauder_Slade

The Dark Thought

"texts who were unable to even address the subject directly."

I dissagree there are multiple passages that state that child killing is wrong & against the will of God "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart." (Jer 7:31) like I said there is no difference in the humanity of a baby before or after it's born so if in the old days they did their abortions after birth & nowadays we do ours before birth makes no difference to me.

On the actual topic of abortion, we have no proof that the child can feel at all before very late in the pregnancy, so the comparision is invalid.

Marauder_Slade

The Dark Thought

"Scripture is not a valid ethical text"

Opinion based on what? Have you even read the bible? It appears you have made a judgement based on heresay.

On the contrary, I have read large parts of the Bible, including the entirety of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Psalms, Matthew-Romans, Revelation, and other smaller selections of text (mostly NIV). It was after reading these that I started to fall away from Christianity, as some passages/interpretations seemed too far-fetched/clearly didn't line up with reality/seemed exagarated. One of my greater concerns was the fact that many of the gospels were written decades after the fact, opening up too much to skewing. Another concern was the blatent disregard for the use of it as a greater alligorical piece by literalists. In addition, I have read an English interpretation of the Qur'an which directly states to never take the words in it literally in Surah 24, verse 37: "God speaks in parables to mankind." Whether or not you follow Islam, those who follow any religion should always remember this phrase.

Marauder_Slade

The Dark Thought

"I'm sure you are fimiliar with the results of the house built on sand."

Did you realize you just quoted the bible?

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Mt 7:24-27

Why else would I say "you are fimiliar?" Again, I am quite fimiliar with the Bible.

Marauder_Slade

The Dark Thought

Marauder_Slade

I am just stating opinions & asking questions - I do not feel it nessisary to defend any opinion of mine, any defence avaliable was already provided when I gave you scriptures in previous posts. If you refuse to acknoledge them then there are no words that I can say to add.

"section of your responce is a direct contradiction, as if you did not defend your opinion, you would not ask questions of others opinions nor respond to their questions."

I never claimed to be perfect - perhaps I worded my statement wrong; I said before I am not trying to argue, but rather discuss & that's what I meant to convey. I ask questions because I have a desire to understand where other people are comming from, or to expose how foolish/ illogical I think the other position is, not to defend myself. I am not allowed to defend my self; only the scripture can do that & if I dissagree with the scripture then I have no defense.

And you think that by providing evidence which, due to its nature, is flawed as a way of proving the foolishness of another? Your actions work against you, making you seem foolish rather then those whom you question.

[Flame_Knight000]

In my view of Christianity, I don't think it's the right thing to do. Even if a fetus can't think for itself, it's still life and to abort a fetus shows that you have no respect for human life whatsoever.

[Elvendra]

Flame_Knight000

In my view of Christianity, I don't think it's the right thing to do. Even if a fetus can't think for itself, it's still life and to abort a fetus shows that you have no respect for human life whatsoever.

To force a pregnant woman to term shows a significant lack of respect for women <i>and</i> human life.

[Belzora]

Princess..netch

For some this is the only solution.. right? But is it ok??

flaming flamingos...no its not right...it is completely wrong to take a life before it has even started...

FOR THE HORDE!!!

[Asexual-Slut~Enya]

Flame_Knight000

In my view of Christianity, I don't think it's the right thing to do. Even if a fetus can't think for itself, it's still life and to abort a fetus shows that you have no respect for human life whatsoever.

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate this unfounded presumption of yours, would you?

I am, quite unabashedly, pro-choice, and I'm dying to hear how it is possible to justify the statement that " have no respect for human life whatsoever."

While you're at it, you may as well ponder over the fact that I view abortion rights to be a means of establishing a woman's equal rights.

[maenad nuri]

Elvendra

Flame_Knight000

In my view of Christianity, I don't think it's the right thing to do. Even if a fetus can't think for itself, it's still life and to abort a fetus shows that you have no respect for human life whatsoever.

To force a pregnant woman to term shows a significant lack of respect for women <i>and</i> human life.

Hey, have you seen the latest ad from a Catholic anti-choice group? It's literally a box factory and the words "If there was a chance that one of these boxes contained a baby, wouldn't you treat all the boxes as if they had a baby?"

No mention of actual women. Nothing to suggest that, you know, women are anything other than baby factories.

[RedRoseSpiral]

Belzora

Princess..netch

For some this is the only solution.. right? But is it ok??

flaming flamingos...no its not right...it is completely wrong to take a life before it has even started...

FOR THE HORDE!!!

Do you have any proof that it is wrong to take life before it's started? Because all I'm seeing here is opinion.

[LiekOmgz xx]

I belive that the choice weather abortian is right or wrong can only be made by a pregnant woman.

however i think that abortian is a very good thing. Especially for teens. Teenagers make mistakes, obviously. Speaking as a child who had a young mother, its not fair to the mother or the child to have the baby. Having a baby when your young usually causes you to drop out of school(which limits job opportunities) Also if you get pregnant young, odds are the boy who got you pregnant wont be around for the rest of that childs life. So there is the mother, with no financal support, no education, and pregnant. Once that child is born then the child has to suffer for the mothers getting pregnant. The child will have to live in a low income family (because there mother cant get a job) and the life long thought that they were an accident, that they were never ment to be born.

Having an abortian for teens would save the life of the mother. This makes sure the mother can finish school, get a good job, and hopefully have a child when shes older.

[Spiral Out]

Belzora

flaming flamingos...no its not right...it is completely wrong to take a life before it has even started...

How is it possible to take a life before it starts? Honestly!

[Suteko]

Nuri

Elvendra

Flame_Knight000

In my view of Christianity, I don't think it's the right thing to do. Even if a fetus can't think for itself, it's still life and to abort a fetus shows that you have no respect for human life whatsoever.

To force a pregnant woman to term shows a significant lack of respect for women <i>and</i> human life.

Hey, have you seen the latest ad from a Catholic anti-choice group? It's literally a box factory and the words "If there was a chance that one of these boxes contained a baby, wouldn't you treat all the boxes as if they had a baby?"

No mention of actual women. Nothing to suggest that, you know, women are anything other than baby factories.

You have lured me out of lurking.

That ad makes me sick. How insulting that must be for pregnant women. "You are like a box at holds a baby. Your worth is in the precious little bundle you hold in your womb."

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

teezy7

Personally i don't think its ok...but that is because I was almost aborted...

so because your mother almost aborted you, you want to take away the choice from other women? why?

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

XxemotionalychallengedxX

i think its your choice,if you want to be a murderer then be one...im not one to judge

abortion is not murder by definition nor legality. and you are judging by calling someone who aborts a murderer. you just contradicted yourself.

[WitheringRoseOfDecay]

d0tted_half_n0te

I don't think abortion is right...

then don't get one.

Quote:

Abortion is murdering... killing someone who's innocent..

wrong and wrong. by definition and legality abortion is not murder. the fetus is not innocent nor guilty, nor is it yet a 'someone.

Quote:

some countries allow this but others don't.

and? the abortion rates are the SAME in countries where it's illegal, then in countries where it isn't illegal.

Quote:

it's not a good isea to kill the fetus.

do you have proof of this? or are you just saying this as an opinion?

[toki546]

I have a choice to kill people or not to. Why would you try and limit my freedom to do that? Because it would hurt you and that is not what you desire so you would make it so if i tried to kill you i would get punished. that is called government.

but the little unborn babies are defenseless and they can't enter politics to try to make legislation that they can't be killed so other people (adults) should do all that stuff for the unborn babies just because it's a nice thing to do.