Marauder_Slade
It is & because my ex had a miscarage I believe that I have a guaranteed child in heaven.
Funny, then, that you should presume that an abortion is an altogether awful experience for the embryo/fetus when there is no credible evidence to suggest that the embryo/fetus possesses cognizance to any degree.
Marauder_Slade
I didn't think so like I said it is a form of demon worship - alcoholics worship baccus the god of partying even if they don't know his name & abortionists worship molech the god of baby-killing even if they don't know his name.
Given that I value wisdom and knowledge, I must, necessarily, worship the various deities/incarnations of those attributes, correct?
And, further, because I also value various aesthetic qualities, I must, necessarily, worship the various deities/incarnations of beauty and symmetry, correct?
Hmm..., what else do I value? Well, there is quite a bit I could list -- so much, in fact, that I must, necessarily, worship nearly every imaginable deity/incarnation ever conceived, correct?
Doesn't that strike you as a tad silly to believe such things, especially when I see myself as an atheistic individual?
Marauder_Slade
Thats why the laws change because they have no absolute standard. As I said before the bible doesn't change (our interpretation/understanding however may).
Whether they are subject to change in the long-run is, in the short-run, fairly irrelevant -- though a law may change in the future, that does not exempt you from adhering to it in the present.
Such laws may represent nothing more than an "opinion" for you, but they are "opinions" you are obligated to follow -- unless, of course, you are willing to accept the repercussions that follow from breaking those "opinions."
Marauder_Slade
I thought I made it clear that it is a matter of opinion & that neither
should override the other.
You are aware that what you believe "should" happen cannot occur in reality, correct?
Either the embryo/fetus is afforded the privilege/right to usurp a woman's right to bodily integrity/autonomy/domain, or a woman is afforded the privilege/right to take the life of the embryo/fetus.
There are no circumstances that fall in between -- at least not given our current medicinal advancements.
Marauder_Slade
I don't like the way you worded the question everyone
should have a right to live whereas in my opinion the right to personal integrity/autonomy/domain is "
percieved".
And, am I to presume, then, that you would be willing to legally mandate organ/blood donations under circumstances where doing so would save the life of another?
And, should I also presume that you would never, ever condone the judicious application of lethal force under circumstances that did not involve a direct threat to the victim's life? (Think: rape, burglary, kidnapping, non-aggravated assault and battery, etcetera.)
The fact is, if one cannot maintain final authority over their own bodily resources (read: their personal, bodily integrity/autonomy/domain) then what could they possibly claim to possess?
Marauder_Slade
Also in my opinion killing the baby would hurt rather than help one's integrity.
Oh, how so? Do bear in mind that, in the context of the discussion, we are referring to bodily integrity/autonomy/domain.
Marauder_Slade
So if you think that there is such a thing as a "right to abort/murder" then perhaps just perhaps you could meditate on these passages.
Why bother meditating on scripture I do not adhere to?
Marauder_Slade
I thougt I said "last resort" I would much rather subdue an intruder & let the police handle him/her & or let them take whatever they want & go.
The fact still remains, however, that you do support the judicious application of lethal force under circumstances that may, or may not, pose a direct threat to the life, or even personal integrity/autonomy/domain, of the victim in question.
How do you justify this when you would deny a woman the right to abort even though the embryo/fetus, if the woman does not desire to carry it to term, violates her bodily integrity/autonomy/domain in a direct fasihion?
Marauder_Slade
Also I would much rather prefer adoption to abortion except in cases where the mother's life is at risk & perhaps in rape & incest but as the statistics state - almost none of the abortions that are being had nowadays are due to either of those reasons.
You are aware that the adoption option only works ex post facto, correct? What good does this particular option do for a woman who does not desire to continue an undesired pregnancy, and wishes to forgo the pains and complications of childbirth and continued pregnancy?
Further, how could you possibly justify an abortion under circumstances that involve rape and incest, but not under other circumstances? Can you tell me the fundamental differences between an embryo/fetus conceived via rape that would warrant discrimination?
Marauder_Slade
Someone brought up a good point; as I am not a woman I really have no say - but someone else also brought up a good point; I am entitled to my opinion, I am just sharing mine - I don't mean to argue.
You are in a public debate forum -- arguments are going to happen.
Marauder_Slade
None whatsoever, except for the possibility that they are
true.
I have no credible evidence to lead me to presume that it is true. Why should I adhere to standards that I deem outdated and unfair?
Marauder_Slade
Anything is possible, I could be wrong; but as you stated it is debated (wether or not they feel pain).
And, I repeat, though the issue is debated, the conclusions those institutions have drawn are based in empirical data analysis. There is a margin of error; however, it isn't as great as you'd probably like to believe it is.
Marauder_Slade
Umm I was just saying the same thing I have been - that it is alive & human.
Explain to me, then, why an embryo/fetus has, or, rather, should have a right to violate the bodily integrity/autonomy/domain of the woman in question?
Marauder_Slade
Except in cases of rape & (non-consesnting) incest you gave permission by having sex because pregnency is a consequence of having sex - if you steal & get busted do you think that you should be able to get out of jail free because you don't want to deal with the consequence of your actions?
"A consent to sexual intercourse does not imply a given consent to pregnancy or, further, to the continuation of said pregnancy should it occur."
Besides, an abortion
is a means of dealing with the consequences -- it just so happens that it is a means that you do not like.
Marauder_Slade
You would have aborted Jillian Barberie, Ted Danson, John Hancock, Ice-T, Jesse Jackson, Kamehameha II (& the IV, & the V), Lee Majors, Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela, Willie Nelson, Malcolm X, & a stack of other people that I personally think made the world a better place (including myself).
Did their mothers desire an abortion at the time they were pregnant with these people? If so, then, yes, I would have gladly encouraged the woman to obtain the abortion if I were certain that is what she really wanted.
And, if through some cosmological error, I were to find myself pregnant, I would not hesitate to abort. I am not willing to raise a child and, quite frankly, I am not willing to undergo the pains that are common during pregnancy and childbirth.
Marauder_Slade rolled 1 20-sided dice:
14
Total: 14 (20-20)
