If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Calmer]

Morluna

I'm glad to see this is back.

True. Repeat topics are awesome like woah. 3nodding

[AciDSniper]

Calmer

Morluna

I'm glad to see this is back.

True. Repeat topics are awesome like woah. 3nodding

Actually the original version of this thread was recently chatterboxed for offtopicness.

[mallory04]

O n y x

I think all of those are really good points, and it's really good of you to spread the word around. The thing is, is that there are a lot of people who disagree with homosexuality who aren't even Christian at all, they can't understand how someone can be attracted to the same sex...And then there are many who are Christians who diagree with homosexuality but not necessarily because they are Christian, they just don't like the idea of it, and will probably use Christianity as an excuse. So you can see how there is a high population of people who disagree with gay marriages, and this population may be Christian but that might not be the real reason behind it. Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone.

But anyway, I don't think it's for me or you to judge whether someone is a bad Christian based on a belief like that.

Just because they don't want to "understand" it doesn't give them to right to make it illegal.

[saint dreya]

ty_ping

Albit Ananel`s thesis could use an update since parts of it have been gone over and Ananel as ceeded a few points.

which points would those be?

IceDust3

So I agree with most of the stuff that you said, but are you not judging your fellow man right now by calling them a bad Christian?

i don't believe Chiewn is Christian (correct me if wrong), so therefore their rules wouldn't apply to him.

IceDust3

Gay is gay we all have something that is untrue about are selves...

as DMJ said...what the hell are you going on about?

[ThePeerOrlando2]

AciDSniper

Judas L. Blackthorn

I'm a bad Christian, but a good Satanist :-O

I'm against Gay Marriage and I'm all for protecting the sanctity of marriage.
As long as I have the right to vote, my vote will always be "NO"!

Interesting, could you expand upon your reasoning?

Well, he's a d**k for starters, and a troll for finishers.

[AciDSniper]

ThePeerOrlando2

AciDSniper

Judas L. Blackthorn

I'm a bad Christian, but a good Satanist :-O

I'm against Gay Marriage and I'm all for protecting the sanctity of marriage.
As long as I have the right to vote, my vote will always be "NO"!

Interesting, could you expand upon your reasoning?

Well, he's a d**k for starters, and a troll for finishers.

I'm aware but I am the only who thinks all post ED the including troll posts should contain at least one clear and complete idea?

[Deep Vermillion]

AciDSniper

Actually the original version of this thread was recently chatterboxed for offtopicness.

It seems to be in the Recycle Bin, actually. Did someone bump an even older debate on homosexual marriage or something?

Calmer

You don't seem to distinguish between marriage as a legal term and a social construct, and the Christian form of marriage as a religious term and construct. Or are you saying that some of the vows taken within many Christian marital situations (including, I believe, that God blesses the union, and the relationship created between God and the couple) are just made up by the pastors? Are you going to address, for example, its position as a Sacrament, in the case of the Catholic Church?

Although some Christians do wish for non-heterosexual unions to be prevented from happening altogether in their countries (and therefore refer to marriage as a 'Christian institution' hence the straw man), there's a lot more concern about the types of marriage allowed within their denomination.

It would, after all, be ridiculous to put Churches in a position where they must bless marriages that their religions do not approve of, be they remarriages of legally (but not religiously) divorced Christians, or of non-heterosexual nature.

(edited for clarification)

Judging by the fact that atheist marriages are blessed, people marrying for (for instance) financial reasons are blessed, marriages where one or both of the people are for divorce are blessed, and generally all marriages done for any other sake than true, life-long love are blessed (provided the couple are wed by a priest or minister), I think it's fair to say that a large percentage of the supposedly "blessed" marriages aren't even remotely blessed, and the people officiating don't seem to have any problems claiming that they are anyway.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

phoenix shadowwolf

ty_ping

Albit Ananel`s thesis could use an update since parts of it have been gone over and Ananel as ceeded a few points.

which points would those be?

Beats me, but if Ananel asks, I'll be more than happy to update the second post to reflect any changes he deems necessary.

phoenix shadowwolf

IceDust3

So I agree with most of the stuff that you said, but are you not judging your fellow man right now by calling them a bad Christian?

i don't believe Chiewn is Christian (correct me if wrong), so therefore their rules wouldn't apply to him.

Correct.

And I, unlike many Christians, will happily point out the specks in other people's eyes, while acknowledging that I might have a Great Sequoia in my own.

DV: Beats me, but I've seen more noobs running about, bumping dormant threads than I'd like lately.

[AciDSniper]

Deep Vermillion

AciDSniper

Actually the original version of this thread was recently chatterboxed for offtopicness.

It seems to be in the Recycle Bin, actually.

That's a split hair's difference at most.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

Deep Vermillion

Calmer

You don't seem to distinguish between marriage as a legal term and a social construct, and the Christian form of marriage as a religious term and construct. Or are you saying that some of the vows taken within many Christian marital situations (including, I believe, that God blesses the union, and the relationship created between God and the couple) are just made up by the pastors? Are you going to address, for example, its position as a Sacrament, in the case of the Catholic Church?

Although some Christians do wish for non-heterosexual unions to be prevented from happening altogether in their countries (and therefore refer to marriage as a 'Christian institution' hence the straw man), there's a lot more concern about the types of marriage allowed within their denomination.

It would, after all, be ridiculous to put Churches in a position where they must bless marriages that their religions do not approve of, be they remarriages of legally (but not religiously) divorced Christians, or of non-heterosexual nature.

(edited for clarification)

Judging by the fact that atheist marriages are blessed, people marrying for (for instance) financial reasons are blessed, marriages where one or both of the people are for divorce are blessed, and generally all marriages done for any other sake than true, life-long love are blessed (provided the couple are wed by a priest or minister), I think it's fair to say that a large percentage of the supposedly "blessed" marriages aren't even remotely blessed, and the people officiating don't seem to have any problems claiming that they are anyway.

I'd go even further to say that it is not the blessing of the church which sanctifies - or even validates - a marriage. It's God, the legal system, or a combination of the two, as far as I'm concerned. While the legal system cannot sanctify a marriage, God can. While the legal system allows marriage, it is validated, at least in a secular sense. While God allows marriage, it is validated in the divine sense. The church marriage ceremonies are meant to be before God, but by no means must marriage be done before men, or with the silly customs pinned to it in popular culture.

This, of course, makes me heretical as far as the Catholic Church is concerned. I'll see about formulating something to clarify my position.

[fuzzycandy]

You are definlenty wrong by saying I'm a bad christian because I don't think Gay marriage is right.

Your support verses, the ones 'Love youe neighbor' doesn't mean we have to support homosexuality.

yes Like the bible says I should love a murderer, just not love what the murderer was doing.

you are NOT a bad christian though AT ALL. you can be immature in your faith or be unwise about christiananity, but we all suffer from sins, and I still don't think it's a sin to be against gay marriage. Even if it WAS a sin, then we wouldn't be bad christians. BECAUSE that would mean every christian was a bad one since they all suffer from any ONE sin

[TrunkstheSlayer]

fuzzycandy

You are definlenty wrong by saying I'm a bad christian because I don't think Gay marriage is right.

get out of ED until you know how to actually refute a point

Quote:

Your support verses, the ones 'Love youe neighbor' doesn't mean we have to support homosexuality.

nobody said otherwise. it DOES mean that you aren't allowed to discriminate against people though

Quote:

yes Like the bible says I should love a murderer, just not love what the murderer was doing.

irrelevant. murder is condemned, homosexuality is not

Quote:

you are NOT a bad christian though AT ALL. you can be immature in your faith or be unwise about christiananity, but we all suffer from sins, and I still don't think it's a sin to be against gay marriage.

you're wrong. hate is a sin. discrimination is hateful

Quote:

Even if it WAS a sin, then we wouldn't be bad christians. BECAUSE that would mean every christian was a bad one since they all suffer from any ONE sin

turn one into dozens and i might buy it

[AciDSniper]

fuzzycandy

You are definlenty wrong by saying I'm a bad christian because I don't think Gay marriage is right.

Your support verses, the ones 'Love youe neighbor' doesn't mean we have to support homosexuality.

yes Like the bible says I should love a murderer, just not love what the murderer was doing.

you are NOT a bad christian though AT ALL. you can be immature in your faith or be unwise about christiananity, but we all suffer from sins, and I still don't think it's a sin to be against gay marriage. Even if it WAS a sin, then we wouldn't be bad christians. BECAUSE that would mean every christian was a bad one since they all suffer from any ONE sin

Issues of relationship with God only apply to believers they can in no way be used as a justification for blanket discrimination. Are you saying that can't see how it may be counter-productive to commit a horrible injustice against millions of people in the name of Christ? With the clear end of the old law in Colossians 2 and the translational issues of Romans 1 and 1 Corinthians 6 there's no clear condemnation of homosexuality anywhere within the original text. All of the translational issues are clearly laid out in the second post of this thread.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

fuzzycandy

You are definlenty wrong by saying I'm a bad christian because I don't think Gay marriage is right.

Then you're going to have to prove me wrong.

fuzzycandy

Your support verses, the ones 'Love youe neighbor' doesn't mean we have to support homosexuality.

You're hurting your fellow man if you're opposing it. You're also judging.

Also, since it's not a sin, you're clearly judging incorrectly.

fuzzycandy

yes Like the bible says I should love a murderer, just not love what the murderer was doing.

That is false. That "love the sinner, hate the sin" crap is a mistranslation of St. Augustine, if memory serves, and does not appear anywhere in the bible. Please cite the verse or concede.

fuzzycandy

you are NOT a bad christian though AT ALL. you can be immature in your faith or be unwise about christiananity, but we all suffer from sins, and I still don't think it's a sin to be against gay marriage.

It is hypocritical at the very least. If I violate the core of Yeshua's teachings, how can I consider myself to be a Christian, or a good one?

What sins do we all suffer from, pray tell?

fuzzycandy

Even if it WAS a sin, then we wouldn't be bad christians.

Actually, you would be. A bad student might be one who breaks the teacher's rules constantly. In this way, a Christian who breaks Yeshua's rules would be a bad Christian, particularly one who is running around accusing everyone else of screwing up.

fuzzycandy

BECAUSE that would mean every christian was a bad one since they all suffer from any ONE sin

There are two problems:

First, you are assuming that all Christians sin. Please prove this to be the case.

Second, is there a difference between wantonly and inadvertently sinning?

[Calmer]

Deep Vermillion

Judging by the fact that atheist marriages are blessed, people marrying for (for instance) financial reasons are blessed, marriages where one or both of the people are for divorce are blessed, and generally all marriages done for any other sake than true, life-long love are blessed (provided the couple are wed by a priest or minister), I think it's fair to say that a large percentage of the supposedly "blessed" marriages aren't even remotely blessed, and the people officiating don't seem to have any problems claiming that they are anyway.

Aye, but the issue here is of scripture and/or Christian sect's rules as regards marriage, as opposed to the 'status quo' that regular Christians go by in real life.

What makes you a good or bad Christian, I would assume, is more about how you act in regards the Bible - and possibly your sect's official view, dependent on its authority - on marriage.

Elf Lord Chiewn

I'd go even further to say that it is not the blessing of the church which sanctifies - or even validates - a marriage. It's God, the legal system, or a combination of the two, as far as I'm concerned. While the legal system cannot sanctify a marriage, God can. While the legal system allows marriage, it is validated, at least in a secular sense. While God allows marriage, it is validated in the divine sense. The church marriage ceremonies are meant to be before God, but by no means must marriage be done before men, or with the silly customs pinned to it in popular culture.

Ah, sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was the Churches intrinsically which blessed the marriage: rather that the Churches were the middle man, as it were, in requesting God's blessing upon the union.

Elf Lord Chiewn

This, of course, makes me heretical as far as the Catholic Church is concerned. I'll see about formulating something to clarify my position.

(apostate actually, unless you've been baptised) The Sacrament is a fairly big one for the Catholics, and there are a few verses from Paul's letters (and possibly Mark I think) as regards the 'Christian' side of matrimony that I'll try and dredge up when I'm not tied up with university course research.