If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Sound Doxa]

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

God would have said that I am sure. Hate is a strong word. Once again, you put words into YHVH mouth He did not say. If YHVH said he hated Essau, then He hated Essau, you have to give adequate verse to say anything else, other that telling my I am taking things out of context; which is not, an argument, sorry bud.

Ok, so how is taking things out of context not an argument? I can prove that taking things out of context can be used to show anything.

If I take part of 1 Samuel 18:1, "the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him," Then I can come up with the idea that David and Jonathan had some kind of relationship other than just a mere friendship. Add into that the fact Jonathan was considerably older, and we could have a case of an old man-youth relationship with possible sexual connotations.

That kind of relationship was very common in the day, and oh, homosexuality is not a sin, but I did not say that verse.

Sorry, but I am not taking it out of context. YHVH said hate, YHVH meant hate.

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin?

That's a crap arguement.
The verses cited for homosexuality have been a sin.
The Bible doesn't really mention homosexual marriage.
The Bible doesn't need to for homosexual marraige to be allowed.
There are a number of things in our current society that are not mentioned in the Bible.
The Bible talks about loving your neighbor. How is denying your neighbor rights based on nothing but bigotry loving him?

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and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Do you believe that the Bible is inspired by God?
Your stance is one I usually see from non-Christians, not from Christians.
The Bible uses the word miseo, which means to hate. Here is the verse.
To say anything that says God did not hate, would be putting words into the Bible that aren't there. This is called eisegesis.

[chaos_anima_27]

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin? and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Hmmm, El Sheddai, have not heard that one in a while, brough the song to mind, thank you for that, probably the only Praise song I ever liked.

I know He meant hate, because he said "hate". Seems blatant to me...

Ok, still I've heard terms used for different things. Let's take "hate" and see where it could also mean something else.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

Surely this doesn't mean that we are to hate our family, especially since Jesus had already said to honor your father and mother, among other things concerning your family, could it?

But what "hate" means here means that a person has to lobe God so much, that the love you would show your family, would seem like hatred in comparison.

[Marshal67]

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin? and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Hmmm, El Sheddai, have not heard that one in a while, brough the song to mind, thank you for that, probably the only Praise song I ever liked.

I know He meant hate, because he said "hate". Seems blatant to me...

Ok, still I've heard terms used for different things. Let's take "hate" and see where it could also mean something else.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

Surely this doesn't mean that we are to hate our family, especially since Jesus had already said to honor your father and mother, among other things concerning your family, could it?

But what "hate" means here means that a person has to lobe God so much, that the love you would show your family, would seem like hatred in comparison.

YHVHs version of hate is different to our own. God would have said otherwise, if that is not what He meant. YHVH says what He means, or do you think He does not?

[chaos_anima_27]

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin? and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Hmmm, El Sheddai, have not heard that one in a while, brough the song to mind, thank you for that, probably the only Praise song I ever liked.

I know He meant hate, because he said "hate". Seems blatant to me...

Ok, still I've heard terms used for different things. Let's take "hate" and see where it could also mean something else.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

Surely this doesn't mean that we are to hate our family, especially since Jesus had already said to honor your father and mother, among other things concerning your family, could it?

But what "hate" means here means that a person has to lobe God so much, that the love you would show your family, would seem like hatred in comparison.

YHVHs version of hate is different to our own. God would have said otherwise, if that is not what He meant. YHVH says what He means, or do you think He does not?

Oh, no He says what he means, but humans have the knack to misinterpret things, often grossly.

[Sound Doxa]

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin? and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Hmmm, El Sheddai, have not heard that one in a while, brough the song to mind, thank you for that, probably the only Praise song I ever liked.

I know He meant hate, because he said "hate". Seems blatant to me...

Ok, still I've heard terms used for different things. Let's take "hate" and see where it could also mean something else.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

Surely this doesn't mean that we are to hate our family, especially since Jesus had already said to honor your father and mother, among other things concerning your family, could it?

But what "hate" means here means that a person has to lobe God so much, that the love you would show your family, would seem like hatred in comparison.

I'm contesting that.
Hate in that passage is talking about leaving all your earthly possessions and following Jesus.
Look at Luke 14:27 and Luke 14:33.
Interpretating the passage as saying anything else but giving up your earthly possessions would be eisegesis, once again.
Furthermore, Marshal did not take his verse out of context, so it stands.
Your comparision of that verse with his is not accurate but your verse is discussing something different than his.
Also, verse 15, verse 18 and verse 22 support Marshal's point.

[chaos_anima_27]

SoundDoctrine

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

Ok, where does it say homosexuality isn't a sin? and how do you know El Shaddai meant hate? Do you know His thoughts? Because I'd surely like to know.

Hmmm, El Sheddai, have not heard that one in a while, brough the song to mind, thank you for that, probably the only Praise song I ever liked.

I know He meant hate, because he said "hate". Seems blatant to me...

Ok, still I've heard terms used for different things. Let's take "hate" and see where it could also mean something else.

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

Surely this doesn't mean that we are to hate our family, especially since Jesus had already said to honor your father and mother, among other things concerning your family, could it?

But what "hate" means here means that a person has to love God so much, that the love you would show your family, would seem like hatred in comparison.

I'm contesting that.
Hate in that passage is talking about leaving all your earthly possessions and following Jesus.
Look at Luke 14:27 and Luke 14:33.
Interpretating the passage as saying anything else but giving up your earthly possessions would be eisegesis, once again.
Furthermore, Marshal did not take his verse out of context, so it stands.
Your comparision of that verse with his is not accurate but your verse is discussing something different than his.
Also, verse 15, verse 18 and verse 22 support Marshal's point.

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

[Marshal67]

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

[chaos_anima_27]

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

I still don't think I can believe that, especially since I believe YHWH and the Christian God are the same.

If God hates, then John 3:16 is a lie, and if that's a lie, Christ died in vain, and I've wasted the past 16 years of my life believing something that's a complete sham.

[Sound Doxa]

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

Yeah, it's pretty clear with the Romans 9 passage.

[chaos_anima_27]

SoundDoctrine

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

Yeah, it's pretty clear with the Romans 9 passage.

Sorry, it's not that easy. I believe that God did say that, but he still loves Esau like He has everyone else on Earth. God chose not to use Esau for His plan for Israel, and therefore chose Jacob instead. Looking at the passage as well as the surrounding verses, it becomes apparent that this is what happened, and while God said that He hated Esau, He didn't mean like what we mean when we hate someone. Rather, he meant that Esau wasn't the chosen one for the seed of Israel, and as such, compared to God's choice in choosing Jacob, it would seem like hatred.

[Sound Doxa]

Son of Krypton

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

I still don't think I can believe that, especially since I believe YHWH and the Christian God are the same.

If God hates, then John 3:16 is a lie, and if that's a lie, Christ died in vain, and I've wasted the past 16 years of my life believing something that's a complete sham.

No.
You don't have to take it to extremes.
Read Romans 9 again. It obviously shows an example of YHWH hating, by saying that He hated Esau, but it also shows His mercy in saving the Gentiles.
God is not all hating nor all loving.
I'd even say that He is definitly mostly loving.
I still don't like the way you say they are the same. Even though you informed me of why you say that a bit, whenever I hear it, I want to correct you by using the Trinity. I always think of the Christian God as the Godhead, YHWH doesn't have to be all loving, but Jesus can be. I don't believe that there are any verses saying outright that Jesus hated people.
Christ did not die in vain. Christ still died to fufill the old law and died for our sins. God does not have to be all loving for Him to want to sacrifice His Son for us.

[Sound Doxa]

Son of Krypton

SoundDoctrine

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

Yeah, it's pretty clear with the Romans 9 passage.

Sorry, it's not that easy. I believe that God did say that, but he still loves Esau like He has everyone else on Earth. God chose not to use Esau for His plan for Israel, and therefore chose Jacob instead. Looking at the passage as well as the surrounding verses, it becomes apparent that this is what happened, and while God said that He hated Esau, He didn't mean like what we mean when we hate someone. Rather, he meant that Esau wasn't the chosen one for the seed of Israel, and as such, compared to God's choice in choosing Jacob, it would seem like hatred.

Your last statement is pure eisegesis.
God is just.
God will show mercy to whom He will show mercy.
God has mercy on whom He desires.
God hated Esau and did not choose him.
Why did God not choose him?
Why did God differentiate between the two?

[chaos_anima_27]

SoundDoctrine

Son of Krypton

SoundDoctrine

Marshal67

Son of Krypton

I know marshal didn't take his verse out of context, he just took the meaning, at least that's how I feel. I could be totally wrong, after all.

But I wasn't comparing the use of the word hate to the word used in Romans, I was simply pointing out how a word can be used to mean something different that what God may have intended.

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

Yeah, it's pretty clear with the Romans 9 passage.

Sorry, it's not that easy. I believe that God did say that, but he still loves Esau like He has everyone else on Earth. God chose not to use Esau for His plan for Israel, and therefore chose Jacob instead. Looking at the passage as well as the surrounding verses, it becomes apparent that this is what happened, and while God said that He hated Esau, He didn't mean like what we mean when we hate someone. Rather, he meant that Esau wasn't the chosen one for the seed of Israel, and as such, compared to God's choice in choosing Jacob, it would seem like hatred.

Your last statement is pure eisegesis.
God is just.
God will show mercy to whom He will show mercy.
God has mercy on whom He desires.
God hated Esau and did not choose him.
Why did God not choose him?
Why did God differentiate between the two?

God is just, but he is also loving, and does not want to see anyone suffer the punishment originally set for the devil and his angels. Seeing as how millions have rejected him, it would appear that it is the humans that hate God.
I have no idea why God didn't choose Esau, but he had a plan and still has one, and whatever He wants to accomplish He'll get it done.
But again, I don't know why God differentiated. The only way to truly find out is to ask him.

[Sound Doxa]

Son of Krypton

SoundDoctrine

Son of Krypton

SoundDoctrine

Marshal67

It can, but in this case, I think YHVH did hate Essau. This God hates, He is not all-loving. Common misconception of Christianity.

Yeah, it's pretty clear with the Romans 9 passage.

Sorry, it's not that easy. I believe that God did say that, but he still loves Esau like He has everyone else on Earth. God chose not to use Esau for His plan for Israel, and therefore chose Jacob instead. Looking at the passage as well as the surrounding verses, it becomes apparent that this is what happened, and while God said that He hated Esau, He didn't mean like what we mean when we hate someone. Rather, he meant that Esau wasn't the chosen one for the seed of Israel, and as such, compared to God's choice in choosing Jacob, it would seem like hatred.

Your last statement is pure eisegesis.
God is just.
God will show mercy to whom He will show mercy.
God has mercy on whom He desires.
God hated Esau and did not choose him.
Why did God not choose him?
Why did God differentiate between the two?

God is just, but he is also loving, and does not want to see anyone suffer the punishment originally set for the devil and his angels.

Marshal never said that God wasn't loving, he said God wasn't ALL loving. All encompasses everybody. Here we see someone being left out. He's not ALL loving.

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Seeing as how millions have rejected him, it would appear that it is the humans that hate God.

I'd agree with that.

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I have no idea why God didn't choose Esau, but he had a plan and still has one, and whatever He wants to accomplish He'll get it done.
But again, I don't know why God differentiated. The only way to truly find out is to ask him.

Okay.

[chaos_anima_27]

But simply because God didn't use him as the important piece of history's puzzle, doesn't mean he didn't use him at all. God still turned Esau's descendants into a nation as well, the nation of Edom. Edom was quite instrumental in Israel's history, though they were destroyed by either the Assyrians or Babylonians, I can't remember which.