If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Thou]

linaloki

Ahem. Note that I never said homosexual behavior. I said homosexuality. The Catechism specifically makes note that, while homosexuality is not great, it in and of itself is no sin. Homosexual sex? Definitely. Homosexuality? Nope. The Roman Catholic Church believes/officially notes in the Catechism that homosexuals are simply called to chastity by God.

And this I would certainly agree with!

Forgive me, as the nature of this thread led me to read into your post more than what was there.

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Thou

Rainbowfied Mouse

The pope can say something "contradicting" the bible because the pope is what is infallible (not as a human, but with the spirit.) When the pope says something spiritual, it is to be taken as truth, and it is put into the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church.) However, if the Cardinals decide that it's out of line with Scripture, or if the Laity believes so as well, they have procedures for handling this. The bible is not what changes, as it is, in it's own way infallible, rather it's the interpretation.

Now, onto another issue, one that allows Catholics to disagree with the pope, I cannot remember the term, but if the Laity, Theologians, and Ministers disagree on a topic, they have a doctrine that allows each member of a congregation to decide with their hearts. However, when homosexuality is brought up by a Theologian or Minister being pro-gay, usually the member is ex-communicated from his position.

Can you give citation on any of this?

Homosexuality is a sin, but "natural" in a sense.

Quote:

"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection" (CCC 2357– 2359).

Paul comfortingly reminds us, "No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it" (1 Cor. 10:13).

Homosexuals who want to live chastely can contact Courage, a national, Church-approved support group for help in deliverance from the homosexual lifestyle.

Priests cannot be gay
Same as above

Quote:

Candidates who are identifiably homosexual are not qualified for ordination, the Vatican said. "In the case of a serious doubt in this respect, they must not admit him to ordination," the document added.

Excommunication to members in support of gay marriage

Quote:

Earlier this year, he excommunicated three women who were ordained as priests against church rules, and also said he would deny Communion to basketball coach Rick Majerus at St. Louis University for his support of abortion rights, same sex marriage and stem cell research.

[Thou]

I was aware of the Church's teaching on homosexuality and the exclusion from ordination of homosexuals. I was more interested in your supporting these statements.

Rainbowfied Mouse

Rainbowfied Mouse

The pope can say something "contradicting" the bible because the pope is what is infallible (not as a human, but with the spirit.) When the pope says something spiritual, it is to be taken as truth, and it is put into the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church.) However, if the Cardinals decide that it's out of line with Scripture, or if the Laity believes so as well, they have procedures for handling this. The bible is not what changes, as it is, in it's own way infallible, rather it's the interpretation.

Now, onto another issue, one that allows Catholics to disagree with the pope, I cannot remember the term, but if the Laity, Theologians, and Ministers disagree on a topic, they have a doctrine that allows each member of a congregation to decide with their hearts. However, when homosexuality is brought up by a Theologian or Minister being pro-gay, usually the member is ex-communicated from his position.

I am not aware that the Pope could ever make an infallible statement that was not in agreement with Church teaching, as that is one of the qualifiers for the proclamation being infallible.

I am also not aware that the Church teaches that "each member of a congregation" may "decide with their hearts" that the Pope is wrong. I wonder if you're not trying to describe the sensus fidelium of the Church, which an infallible proclamation must agree with for it to be infallible.

I continually find myself unaware of these things that you say, but this one troubles me greatly: that a theologian bringing up homosexuality is excommunicated.

Your links do not support this claim.

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Oh, sorry, my wording was slightly disarray.

The pope can "contradict" <- the quotes are meaning it's not really contradictory...
My statement was trying to come across as there are many interpretations of different doctrinal manners, but the interpretation the pope takes is the one the Catholic Church goes with. Notice how the issue of heresy has changed over the past 5centuries? No longer is one who is part of a protestant church defined as a heretic, and neither is the one who disagrees with the pope.

The bible isn't wrong, by the Catholic Church's standards. It merely is misinterpreted, in a sense. The Catechism gives a clear interpretation of the Spirit and the Bible alike.

I don't have citation, really, other than what I learned in the RCIA, so unless I google it all it'd be rather tricky.


As for the theologian, I read it somewhere, and I will continue looking for it, just give me a few days ^^;

[Mr Mermalade]

The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.

[Mr Mermalade]

Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

My lesbianism is an act of Christian charity. All those women out there praying for a man, and I'm giving them my share. ~Rita Mae Brown

When I was in the military they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one. ~Epitaph of Leonard P. Matlovich, 1988 (Thanks, Marlene)

There is nothing wrong with going to bed with someone of your own sex. People should be very free with sex, they should draw the line at goats. ~Elton John

To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying "Amen" to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to keep your soul alive. ~Robert Louis Stevenson


War. Rape. Murder. Poverty. Equal rights for gays. Guess which one the Southern Baptist Convention is protesting?

We are not the first but I am sure we will not be the last. After us will come many other countries, driven, ladies and gentleman, by two unstopable forces: freedom and equality ~Jose Luis Rodrigueaz, Prime Minister of Spain

Why can't they have gay people in the army? Personally, I think they are just afraid of a thousand guys with M16s going, "Who'd you call a f*****t?"~John Stewart


Now, i find every male that protests in here against homosexuality to be a hypocrite. After ranting about how wrong it is for two men to have sex, how the bible fauns upon it or w/e it is you do with that silly book. I bet you just go up to Spankwire.com and watch two lesbians licking each other silly wile you wax your carrot thinking thats what you might get someday in front of you. You children are pathetic. "The plague of mankind is the fear and rejection of diversity: monotheism, monarchy, monogamy and, in our age, monomedicine. The belief that there is only one right way to live, only one right way to regulate religious, political, sexual, medical affairs is the root cause of the greatest threat to man: members of his own species, bent on ensuring his salvation, security, and sanity."~Thomas Szasz.

Cut the bull and go cry to your mothers.

[Thou]

Rainbowfied Mouse

Oh, sorry, my wording was slightly disarray.

The pope can "contradict" <- the quotes are meaning it's not really contradictory...
My statement was trying to come across as there are many interpretations of different doctrinal manners, but the interpretation the pope takes is the one the Catholic Church goes with. Notice how the issue of heresy has changed over the past 5centuries? No longer is one who is part of a protestant church defined as a heretic, and neither is the one who disagrees with the pope.

The bible isn't wrong, by the Catholic Church's standards. It merely is misinterpreted, in a sense. The Catechism gives a clear interpretation of the Spirit and the Bible alike.

I don't have citation, really, other than what I learned in the RCIA, so unless I google it all it'd be rather tricky.


As for the theologian, I read it somewhere, and I will continue looking for it, just give me a few days ^^;

Can you show me where the Church has said Protestants are not heretics? I'd like to have that reference handy.

Could you also address your saying that Catholics " . . . have a doctrine that allows each member of a congregation to decide with their hearts."

I patiently await your reply.

[Yuki The Uke]

Mr Mermalade

There is nothing wrong with going to bed with someone of your own sex. People should be very free with sex, they should draw the line at goats. ~Elton John

don't like the guy, but he has some lulz in him.

[Rainbowfied Mouse]

Thou

Can you show me where the Church has said Protestants are not heretics? I'd like to have that reference handy.

x
Benedict XVI tells us it's not.

Quote:

Could you also address your saying that Catholics " . . . have a doctrine that allows each member of a congregation to decide with their hearts."

Probabilism
Catholic Probabilism


Ex-communicated Theologian Charles Curran


I found my notes under my bed sweatdrop

[msphobia]

Mr Mermalade

There is nothing wrong with going to bed with someone of your own sex. People should be very free with sex, they should draw the line at goats. ~Elton John

If people say love is love, then why draw the line at goats?

Mr Mermalade

Now, i find every male that protests in here against homosexuality to be a hypocrite. After ranting about how wrong it is for two men to have sex, how the bible fauns upon it or w/e it is you do with that silly book. I bet you just go up to Spankwire.com and watch two lesbians licking each other silly wile you wax your carrot thinking thats what you might get someday in front of you. You children are pathetic. "The plague of mankind is the fear and rejection of diversity: monotheism, monarchy, monogamy and, in our age, monomedicine. The belief that there is only one right way to live, only one right way to regulate religious, political, sexual, medical affairs is the root cause of the greatest threat to man: members of his own species, bent on ensuring his salvation, security, and sanity."~Thomas Szasz.

This is a statement tht would be very hard to prove, I bet.

[Ken Kurosawa]

Dammit, rolleyes not another one of these...

first off Politics+Religion= BAD.

Secondly, and more seriously, who gives a damn if the gays and lesbians do thier thing? I'm pretty sure God, who is all-powerfull, all-seeing, and all-Forgiving, really doesn't care what men/women do to each other, so long its consensual.(sp?)

He wants us to be happy. and if the key to your happiness is being with someone of the same sex, I'm sure that God wouldn't mind all that much. And certainly not enough to damn you to the eternall fires of Hell.

People who are against gay marriage on a religious basis need to realize one thing. The ceremony and words of the priests are not important. the only thing God cares about is a devout faith in his son, Jesus Christ.

I personally beleive that gays should be allowed to marry, and if churchmen don't like it, then they can marry secularly, as a government allows.

in response to the previous post, Beastiallity...
well, i find it repungent, but if they keep it in thier homes, i find no reason to persecute them.

[Militant Christian]

Ken Kurosawa

Dammit, rolleyes not another one of these...

'another'? This is one of the oldest threads in ED. You state 'another' as if Elfie posted this two hours ago.

[Gho the Girl]

Militant Christian

Ken Kurosawa

Dammit, rolleyes not another one of these...

'another'? This is one of the oldest threads in ED. You state 'another' as if Elfie posted this two hours ago.

I didn't think the M&R moved so fast as to have 809 pages within 60 minutes.

[jaden kendam]

Gho the Girl

Militant Christian

Ken Kurosawa

Dammit, rolleyes not another one of these...

'another'? This is one of the oldest threads in ED. You state 'another' as if Elfie posted this two hours ago.

I didn't think the M&R moved so fast as to have 809 pages within 60 minutes.

You must have forgotten about the fluffy time warp which makes it seem as if two years have passed, when it has only been an hour or so. "For the fluffies, I feel the most sorry. For it is them who suffer without grace, without compassion, and without wisdom."

[Militant Christian]

Gho the Girl

Militant Christian

Ken Kurosawa

Dammit, rolleyes not another one of these...

'another'? This is one of the oldest threads in ED. You state 'another' as if Elfie posted this two hours ago.

I didn't think the M&R moved so fast as to have 809 pages within 60 minutes.

120 minutes.

But, no, neither did I.