If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Rika Nemendi]

Elgala_Chan

Rika Nemendi

OK ladies and gentleman there is a story in the bible that alot of people know, but I will tell you part of it anyway.
The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah (the whole story is in Genesis chapters 18 and 19)

Genesis 19: 4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom both young and old surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "where are the men who came to you tonight" Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

ok the story goes on to explain why God destroyed the cities because they were evil people and had sex with the same gender. So yes it is biblical that being gay is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NASB

49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Peter ended the old law in Acts 15 so you must explain how your argument relates to the Law of Agape.

You do realize that Luke wrote Acts right? Not Peter? Ok now i just read all of Acts 15, so you mind telling me where exactly it says that its ok to have sex with the same gender?

[Boxy]

Yoru Kurosawa

Furthemore, Sodom's sins were being inhospitable and RAPE. How about you read the entire story before you drag it out of context. of course, if you're too lazy, I could quote it for you, but I'm a believer in forcing the mistaken to rectify their mistakes.

There's a parallel story in Judges 19-21 where the inhabitants of a city in the tribe of Benjamin are about to gang-rape a traveler, but instead decide to gang-rape his concubine to the point of death. Result? The destruction of the entire freaking tribe of Benjamin, save a few survivors who went out and kidnapped young nubile women wherewith to mate.

Moral of this story? Violating xenia gets you on the bad side of some pretty hardcore deities.

[Elgala_Chan]

Yoru Kurosawa

Elgala_Chan

Rika Nemendi

OK ladies and gentleman there is a story in the bible that alot of people know, but I will tell you part of it anyway.
The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah (the whole story is in Genesis chapters 18 and 19)

Genesis 19: 4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom both young and old surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "where are the men who came to you tonight" Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

ok the story goes on to explain why God destroyed the cities because they were evil people and had sex with the same gender. So yes it is biblical that being gay is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NASB

49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Peter ended the old law in Acts 15 so you must explain how your argument relates to the Law of Agape.

Furthemore, Sodom's sins were being inhospitable and RAPE. How about you read the entire story before you drag it out of context. of course, if you're too lazy, I could quote it for you, but I'm a believer in forcing the mistaken to rectify their mistakes.

The people of of Sodom and the Angels are consistently referred to as enosh(neutral) throughout that story but when Lot wanted to say that his daughters were virgins he said that they had not known any ish(masculine) leaving no indication that this is meant to refer to a city being destroyed by homosexuality which is confirmed in Ezekiel 16.
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/genesis_19.shtml

[Yoru Kurosawa]

Boxy

Yoru Kurosawa

Furthemore, Sodom's sins were being inhospitable and RAPE. How about you read the entire story before you drag it out of context. of course, if you're too lazy, I could quote it for you, but I'm a believer in forcing the mistaken to rectify their mistakes.

There's a parallel story in Judges 19-21 where the inhabitants of a city in the tribe of Benjamin are about to gang-rape a traveler, but instead decide to gang-rape his concubine to the point of death. Result? The destruction of the entire freaking tribe of Benjamin, save a few survivors who went out and kidnapped young nubile women wherewith to mate.

Moral of this story? Violating xenia gets you on the bad side of some pretty hardcore deities.

No kidding.

Another point to add onto this... the men who were with Abraham i think it was? Yeah, they were angels sent by God to investigate outcries from the city. As a person I greatly respect once said, "Would men consenting to sex cry out to God?" I really don't think so. And if anyone dares bring up the "strange flesh" argument, I'd consider having sex with an angel pretty strange, wouldn't you?

[Yoru Kurosawa]

Elgala_Chan

Yoru Kurosawa

Elgala_Chan

Rika Nemendi

OK ladies and gentleman there is a story in the bible that alot of people know, but I will tell you part of it anyway.
The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah (the whole story is in Genesis chapters 18 and 19)

Genesis 19: 4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom both young and old surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "where are the men who came to you tonight" Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

ok the story goes on to explain why God destroyed the cities because they were evil people and had sex with the same gender. So yes it is biblical that being gay is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NASB

49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Peter ended the old law in Acts 15 so you must explain how your argument relates to the Law of Agape.

Furthemore, Sodom's sins were being inhospitable and RAPE. How about you read the entire story before you drag it out of context. of course, if you're too lazy, I could quote it for you, but I'm a believer in forcing the mistaken to rectify their mistakes.

The people of of Sodom and the Angels are consistently referred to as enosh(neutral) throughout that story but when Lot wanted to say that his daughters were virgins he said that they had not known any ish(masculine) leaving no indication that this is meant to refer to a city being destroyed by homosexuality which is confirmed in Ezekiel 16.
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/genesis_19.shtml

I can't tell if you're responding to me with more info to back me up, or if you're responding to me because you thought my comment was directed at you >.> I was actually trying to back you up.

If I'm completely misinterpretting what you're doing, then by all means, ignore me =D

[Rika Nemendi]

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor the adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

[Boxy]

Rika Nemendi

You do realize that Luke wrote Acts right? Not Peter?

Luke quotes Peter in Acts 15. To wit: 'After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. ..."But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are."' (Acts 15:7,11)

The argument goes that Peter rescinded requires for Gentiles to obey the Mosaic law, including the bits about ritual purity (i.e. "toe'bah," the Hebrew word for "ritual uncleanness" which is also translated as "abomination" in Leviticus 1 cool .

If a person is to be saved, the argument goes, it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ, not by the obedience to any number of individual laws (which, being finite, are limited and cannot bring man salvation). Rather, a man must look to Christ, offer his heart, and then work with him to the point of agape. Or so the argument goes.

Rika Nemendi

Ok now i just read all of Acts 15, so you mind telling me where exactly it says that its ok to have sex with the same gender?

Do you mind telling me where exactly it says it's okay to have sex with a woman on her period? Because, y'know, that was part of the whole Levitical law about sexual purity that Christians tend to gloss over quite a bit. Either you keep the whole Levitical law about sexuality, or you throw it all out and just focus on loving your fellow man and not worrying about what they're doing if it's not hurting anyone. You can't pick and choose (unless, of course, your tradition states it otherwise. But don't pin your tradition's choice on the Bible when the Bible is silent).

[Rika Nemendi]

.

Rika Nemendi

Ok now i just read all of Acts 15, so you mind telling me where exactly it says that its ok to have sex with the same gender?

Do you mind telling me where exactly it says it's okay to have sex with a woman on her period? Because, y'know, that was part of the whole Levitical law about sexual purity that Christians tend to gloss over quite a bit.

you are very right about that Christians to gloss over that. And I'm really not sure that it says anywhere that it is ok

[Elgala_Chan]

Rika Nemendi

Elgala_Chan

Rika Nemendi

OK ladies and gentleman there is a story in the bible that alot of people know, but I will tell you part of it anyway.
The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah (the whole story is in Genesis chapters 18 and 19)

Genesis 19: 4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom both young and old surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "where are the men who came to you tonight" Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

ok the story goes on to explain why God destroyed the cities because they were evil people and had sex with the same gender. So yes it is biblical that being gay is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NASB

49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Peter ended the old law in Acts 15 so you must explain how your argument relates to the Law of Agape.

You do realize that Luke wrote Acts right? Not Peter? Ok now i just read all of Acts 15, so you mind telling me where exactly it says that its ok to have sex with the same gender?

Luke quotes Peter in verses 6-20 which state that a gentile has no need to accept the Old Law before accepting the teachings of Christ. For further reading on the end of the Old Law you have Colossians 2

[Boxy]

Rika Nemendi

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor the adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

Good mods, I posted a response to this on the previous page.

Boxy

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, KJV

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakos], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [arsenokoitai] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Malakos means "catamite," which is a specific title of the submissive role in pedastery (which is nowadays considered *****). There's a problem of power disparity, as these young boys were often "submitting" to their professional mentors and masters so as to "learn the ways of the trade" of sex. This relationship had nothing at all to do with love (or even lust), and had more to do with learning sexual techniques and/or to gratify one's master.

Arsenokoites was a word of uncertain meaning, as the author was apparently coining the word as he wrote. It is a splicing-together of two words, arsenos meaning "man," and koites meaning "bed." It could mean two men in a bed, it could mean male prostitution (i.e. a woman inviting a man other than her husband into her bed), or it could mean a man alone in a bed engaging in sexual relations with himself. At various times, it has been translated as homosexual, masturbator, and even more curiously "abuser of themselves with mankind" (which while adding content to the meaning, it does leave it accurately vague).

If you wish to interpret arsenokoites as "a man engaging in homosexual relations in a loving, closed relationship," I could interpret it just as easily as "a man who is at any time in a bed doing anything, including sleeping." It just does not fit.

Rika Nemendi

you are very right about that Christians to gloss over that. And I'm really not sure that it says anywhere that it is ok

Either you throw out the entirety of Levitical law and focus on loving your neighbor (y'know, the stuff Jesus actually taught) or you focus on the small stuff that ultimately won't matter as long as you got the loving-kindness that makes you a decent human being.

For that same matter, there's nothing that specifically tells Christians that they're allowed to plow fields with more than one crop or wear clothing composed of more than one type of fabric. The whole idea of Christianity is that people should take responsibility for their own salvation into their own hands, and not worry about the small stuff that everyone else is doing.

If a pastor said that it was wrong to give each other <insert sexual acts here>, then I would question the pastor's lack of priorities, especially given the state of the economy, the thousands of homeless in our nation and abroad, the constant death of our fellow men in our name, and any number of larger, more pressing atrocities than to deal with what Adam and Steve are doing back in their own private garden.

[Yoru Kurosawa]

Rika Nemendi

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor the adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

I bolded the key word for you. =D

[Rika Nemendi]

Ok in my opinion I don't ever care to have sex when I am on my period it holds diseases and that's why it says that you shouldn't and I actually agree with that so I'm not picking and choosing I'm agreeing with it all. Besides the things that are biblically approved of, like eating pig.

[Elgala_Chan]

Yoru Kurosawa

Elgala_Chan

Yoru Kurosawa

Elgala_Chan

Rika Nemendi

OK ladies and gentleman there is a story in the bible that alot of people know, but I will tell you part of it anyway.
The Story of Sodom and Gomorrah (the whole story is in Genesis chapters 18 and 19)

Genesis 19: 4-5
Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom both young and old surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "where are the men who came to you tonight" Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

ok the story goes on to explain why God destroyed the cities because they were evil people and had sex with the same gender. So yes it is biblical that being gay is wrong.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 NASB

49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Peter ended the old law in Acts 15 so you must explain how your argument relates to the Law of Agape.

Furthemore, Sodom's sins were being inhospitable and RAPE. How about you read the entire story before you drag it out of context. of course, if you're too lazy, I could quote it for you, but I'm a believer in forcing the mistaken to rectify their mistakes.

The people of of Sodom and the Angels are consistently referred to as enosh(neutral) throughout that story but when Lot wanted to say that his daughters were virgins he said that they had not known any ish(masculine) leaving no indication that this is meant to refer to a city being destroyed by homosexuality which is confirmed in Ezekiel 16.
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/genesis_19.shtml

I can't tell if you're responding to me with more info to back me up, or if you're responding to me because you thought my comment was directed at you >.> I was actually trying to back you up.

If I'm completely misinterpretting what you're doing, then by all means, ignore me =D

Oh, Sorry about that. I think we got enough info posted in that exchange to stop people from using the Sodom argument for a while.

[Rika Nemendi]

Yoru Kurosawa

Rika Nemendi

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor the idolaters nor the adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

I bolded the key word for you. =D

Besides the fact that in the bible it doesn't say offenders. What version bible are you taking this out of?