If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian. v2

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Alive	36.4%	[ 4 ]
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RaptorJesus	36.4%	[ 4 ]
Total Votes:			[ 11 ]

This poll closed on March 4, 2014.
No longer accepting new votes.

[MorningstarxLucifer]

Not supporting or being against same-sex marriage doesn't make a person intrinsically a bad anything.
Unless they are actively seeking to deny couples their right to marry, such as politicians or leaders and they are funding such campaigns, I do not particularly care what their opinion is on the subject.

Sure, I may not wish to be around them so much, particularly if they are openly deprecatory of TLGB individuals and other groups constantly. But that is not relevant to the discussion.
Their opinion simply does not rile me up and unless I am being personally attacked, I see no reason to attack back or shout at them, etc.
They are harmless.

[Arcoon Effox]

Lady Kariel

If you're going to refer to something that someone said directly, you should probably include that person's name in your quotation. Failure to do so is essentially talking about that person behind their back.

Similarly, if you're going to copy-paste the majority of what you're saying from a website (in this case CARM), you need to include a citation to the effect. Failure to do that makes you a plagiarist... which you already know, of course, since you've been told this several times, now.

Lady Kariel

The laws may not be as strictly observed as they once were in Judaism since we have Jesus as the permanent sacrifice for sin. But God's perspective on what is wrong does not change.

Peter's vision about the animals and the sheet, which is typically viewed by Christians as God arbitrarily dismissing dietary laws, is a fine example of God changing his perspective on what is "wrong".

Granted, that interpretation is wrong, but that's still what is taught in church, so the point stands.

Lady Kariel

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Fun Fact: The word translated as "homosexuals" in this passage (which seems to be from the 1977 printing of the NASB, of all things) is αρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoitēs), which doesn't have an unambiguous translation. Throughout history it's been translated to indicate that the people the verse is referring to are pimps to ***** to pedasterists, whichever was the most taboo at the time the translation was made (which in our current time is gays, for some reason).

It's most likely that Paul is referring here to the same thing he was talking about in Romans 1: Heterosexual men engaging in homosexual temple prostitution, an act commonly committed in pagan worship in the 1st Century CE.

Lady Kariel, plagiarizing CARM

Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible.

No, it really isn't.

As you just indicated, Christians believe that Jesus' sacrifice freed humanity from the Old Covenant, so the prohibition against homosexuality (which applied principally to those holding the Levitical Priesthood anyway) was nixed along with the rest of that, and there's no unambiguous denouncement of homosexuality in the New Testament.

Lady Kariel, plagiarizing CARM

[Homosexuality] undermines God's created order when He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out His command to fill and subdue the earth. Homosexuality cannot carry out that mandate.

I hear this so often from Christians as part of their anti-homosexual rhetoric, yet not one of them has ever been able to show me where it's indicated that this mandate applied to anyone other than Adam and Eve themselves.

I mean, if it were some kind of order from God to all of mankind, that would indicate that anybody who doesn't get married and have children would be in disobedience... yet nowhere in the Bible is that suggested. (Contrary-wise, Paul essentially says in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 that marriage is a cop-out for those who can't handle chastity!)

Lady Kariel, plagiarizing CARM

In addition, homosexuality undermines the basic family unit of husband and wife...

Are single-parent households not "families"? How about the show Full House, in which three men are raising a trio of children? Are the Tanners not a "family"?

Anyway, to undermine something in the sense we're talking about here implies the intent to damage or weaken it. Let's see some unbiased evidence of this homosexual conspiracy to undermine marriage you're insinuating exists.

Lady Kariel, plagiarizing CARM

...which is the God-ordained means of procreation.

PLZ show me where God "ordained" this in the Bible, because I can't help but think that this is a blatant case of circular reasoning.

Just because you infer something from what you read doesn't mean that thing was ever actually implied.

Lady Kariel, plagiarizing CARM

Believe it or not, [homosexuality] is also dangerous to society.

[Lucky~9~Lives]

Lady Kariel

Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines God's created order when He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out His command to fill and subdue the earth (Genesis 1:28). Homosexuality cannot carry out that mandate.

Neither can people with infertility.

[Lady Vizsla]

You are a prime example of someone being selective in what you want the Bible to show. And I can't take you seriously when you say

Quote:

consider that God is kind of being a p***k

The laws may not be as strictly observed as they once were in Judaism since we have Jesus as the permanent sacrifice for sin. But God's perspective on what is wrong does not change.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines God's created order when He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out His command to fill and subdue the earth (Genesis 1:2 cool . Homosexuality cannot carry out that mandate. In addition, homosexuality undermines the basic family unit of husband and wife which is the God-ordained means of procreation. Again, homosexuality cannot do that. And, believe it or not, it is also dangerous to society.

[Arcoon Effox]

Diverse Melody

...there ARE verses in the new testament about homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Citation Needed.

List them, if you please. Odds are that the verses you're going to post have already been addressed and debunked, but let's see.

[Diverse Melody]

The Bible also says to correct your brother when he sins. Judging is looking down on someone. I do not look down on them. I love them. Also, there ARE verses in the new testament about homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

[Rin Lufia]

Elf Lord Chiewn

---
If you are Christian and against gay marriage, you are:

• violating the Law of Agape (specifically, Matthew 22:39, Mark 12:31, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9), which is at the core of Yeshua's teachings
  
• judging your fellow man (Matthew 7:1-2, Luke 6:37)
  
• inaccurately referencing the bible to make a case against TEH GHEY (oh noes!)
  
• in favor of denying equal civil rights, and therefore in favor of doing harm to others
  
• confused
  

Things, such as "Law of Agape", and others that you mention here, are not God's law. Often, people make the mistake of thinking that the laws of the time, which were recorded often for posterity, applied the same way as things that actually came from God, for example, the Ten Commandments.

Quote:

Before you cite Leviticus, consider that the Law of Moses is for Jews, and is rendered moot according to:

• Acts (the Council of Jerusalem)
  
• Galatians (Paul)
  
• Collossians 2 (Paul)
  

Irrelevant.

Quote:

Mosaic Law also prescribes some great things that I'm sure everyone practices. For example, capital punishment is required for:

• breaking Shabbat
  
• adultery
  
• false testimony
  
• kidnapping
  
• rape
  
• murder
  
• rebelling against one's parents
  

As said above. This is mixing mans law with God's law. A lot of the Mosaic law was added to the longer it existed, as "attempts" to preserve the original laws that God had asked people to follow.

Quote:

Show of hands. Who still stones rebellious children and cuts down kidnappers?

Most Muslim nations. Though, its somewhat irrelevant.

Quote:

Before you cite Romans 1, read the second post. Also, consider that God is kind of being a p***k, if Paul can be believed

.

Humans are pretty arrogant. With our limited.... VERY limited knowledge of anything that has to do with our lives and our existence, to think that we can understand or challenge things that our Creator has set for us.

Though, for any of that to mean anything, you actually have to believe in God in the first place.

[Arcoon Effox]

Asadachi

Mea quidem sententia

Asadachi

You don't have a snowball's chance in hell proving this statement true. You don't even know why the bible is written in discernment order instead of chronological.

Survey

First... Are you really quoting NPR? Hahahahahah

Second.... NPR asked questions about their denominational beliefs; they did not ask questions pertaining to the Bible itself.

Third... Are you really quoting NPR? Really?!

...says the guy who's frequently gotten all pissy about people dismissing his sources.

Also, in your rush to hypocritically commit your Genetic Fallacy, you overlooked the fact that NPR is simply reporting on the study, which was conducted by the Pew Research Center.

Well played, Mr Morning-Wood...

[Arcoon Effox]

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

crystalpraise

Oh it sounds like he had a hard life.

...what? Okay, you're gonna have to tell me what it was that I said which suggested to you that [Jeffery Dahmer] "had a hard life".

Well I'm a strong believer that hurting people hurt other people...so if someone is that crazy something must have went very wrong I assume.

While that's a rather positive POV for a Christian to have about such things, some people are just born sociopaths. It genuinely saddens me to tell you that, but that's the way it is.

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

crystalpraise

I hope [Dahmer] did give his life to Jesus.

stare because even though he murdered, dissected, cannibalized, and raped the corpses of 17+ people, it's totally fair that he gets a free pass into Heaven just because he said he was sorry to Jesus?

Well all sin is horrible to God and it is fair because Jesus died for him also.

You and I have a very different definition of "fair". One person losing his life does not excuse a person murdering 17 of them, nor does not believing in this one person justify Gandhi (pretty much the preeminent peacemaker and noted inspiration of people like Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela) being in Hell. That is a travesty of "fairness", and I'm hard-pressed to think of anything less just.

crystalpraise

I know that what he did was very horrible if you are wondering.

Maybe so, but by the sound of things you don't actually care because he's a Christian (which you think means he's somehow just excused for what he did to those people).

[Asadachi]

Mea quidem sententia

Asadachi

You don't have a snowball's chance in hell proving this statement true. You don't even know why the bible is written in discernment order instead of chronological.

Survey

First... Are you really quoting NPR? Hahahahahah

Second.... NPR asked questions about their denominational beliefs; they did not ask questions pertaining to the Bible itself.

Third... Are you really quoting NPR? Really?!

[Mea quidem sententia]

Asadachi

You don't have a snowball's chance in hell proving this statement true. You don't even know why the bible is written in discernment order instead of chronological.

Survey

[crystalpraise]

Arcoon Effox

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

arrow Is Jefferey Dahmer in Heaven because he became a born-again Christian before he died?

I don't know who that is...

Dahmer was a serial killer who murdered (a known) 17 people. His MO was generally to drug his victim with sleeping pills and then strangle them to death. Once his victims were dead, he dissected and eviscerated them, eating some of this flesh as he did so and putting some more into Ziploc baggies for later. During this process, he had sex with these bodies in various ways.

Once he was done doing all that, he'd typically take the severed heads and give them a bath in a bleach-acid solution to dissolve everything but the skull, which he'd then add to his collection of them. Everything he didn't keep was put in vats of chemicals and reduced to a liquid state, then dumped down the sink or toilet to dispose of it.

On several occasions, he also tried drilling holes in his victims' heads and injecting hydrochloric acid or boiling water into their frontal lobes. This was done in an attempt to damage their brains enough to put them into a vegetative state, while still keeping them alive (that way he could do whatever he wanted to them and they couldn't resist, precluding the need to go and make another corpse).

The guy is one of the most well-known psychopaths of our time, and this all came to light in 1991. If you've never heard of him, then you're probably even younger than I thought you were...

Oh it sounds like he had a hard life.

...what? Okay, you're gonna have to tell me what it was that I said which suggested to you that he "had a hard life".

crystalpraise

I hope he did give his life to Jesus.

stare ...becase even though he murdered, dissected, cannibalized, and raped the corpses of 17+ people, it's totally fair that he gets a free pass into Heaven just because he said he was sorry to Jesus?

crystalpraise

I wasn't looking at the news back in 1991

Is that because you weren't born yet?

❤ Well I'm a strong believer that hurting people hurt other people...so if someone is that crazy something must have went very wrong I assume.

Well all sin is horrible to God and it is fair because Jesus died for him also. I know that what he did was very horrible if you are wondering ❤

And no I wasn't ❤

[Asadachi]

crystalpraise

And a Christian not supporting gay marriage isn't unbiblical so whoever started this thread should get a biblical education mrgreen

Mea quidem sententia

Even if you think not supporting gay marriage is biblical, it doesn't mean it's constitutional or moral. You shouldn't say the OP should get a biblical education, just because you don't agree. That's something I've noticed about some Christians, but the truth is, the non-religious know more about the Bible than Christians do.

You don't have a snowball's chance in hell proving this statement true. You don't even know why the bible is written in discernment order instead of chronological.

[Arcoon Effox]

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

crystalpraise

Arcoon Effox

arrow Is Jefferey Dahmer in Heaven because he became a born-again Christian before he died?

I don't know who that is...

Dahmer was a serial killer who murdered (a known) 17 people. His MO was generally to drug his victim with sleeping pills and then strangle them to death. Once his victims were dead, he dissected and eviscerated them, eating some of this flesh as he did so and putting some more into Ziploc baggies for later. During this process, he had sex with these bodies in various ways.

Once he was done doing all that, he'd typically take the severed heads and give them a bath in a bleach-acid solution to dissolve everything but the skull, which he'd then add to his collection of them. Everything he didn't keep was put in vats of chemicals and reduced to a liquid state, then dumped down the sink or toilet to dispose of it.

On several occasions, he also tried drilling holes in his victims' heads and injecting hydrochloric acid or boiling water into their frontal lobes. This was done in an attempt to damage their brains enough to put them into a vegetative state, while still keeping them alive (that way he could do whatever he wanted to them and they couldn't resist, precluding the need to go and make another corpse).

The guy is one of the most well-known psychopaths of our time, and this all came to light in 1991. If you've never heard of him, then you're probably even younger than I thought you were...

Oh it sounds like he had a hard life.

...what? Okay, you're gonna have to tell me what it was that I said which suggested to you that he "had a hard life".

crystalpraise

I hope he did give his life to Jesus.

stare ...becase even though he murdered, dissected, cannibalized, and raped the corpses of 17+ people, it's totally fair that he gets a free pass into Heaven just because he said he was sorry to Jesus?

crystalpraise

I wasn't looking at the news back in 1991

Is that because you weren't born yet?

[Mea quidem sententia]

crystalpraise

And a Christian not supporting gay marriage isn't unbiblical so whoever started this thread should get a biblical education mrgreen

Even if you think not supporting gay marriage is biblical, it doesn't mean it's constitutional or moral. You shouldn't say the OP should get a biblical education, just because you don't agree. That's something I've noticed about some Christians, but the truth is, the non-religious know more about the Bible than Christians do.