I want to believe in something...

When we die...

We stop 'being'	25.0%	[ 12 ]
We go to our creator	16.7%	[ 8 ]
We continue in a different form	14.6%	[ 7 ]
We rot like the flesh puppets we are	18.8%	[ 9 ]
Other	25.0%	[ 12 ]
Total Votes:			[ 48 ]

[Tuah]

Contemplating one's mortality is something that everyone goes through at some point. Realistically, nobody can truly know what's beyond death, yet everyone will eventually die. It's a sad fact that comes with life.

But rather than dwell on something that can't be changed, enjoy the life you have; do what makes you happy.

I've got clinical depression as well, but I always have hope for the future. Someday the depression will fade, and both you and I will feel a greater appreciation for life and what we have now.

[little_boy_luke]

I believes cause it only ting dat makes sense me after a lot studys and some experiences dat I hab. 3nodding

[Weretindere]

I had some pretty good thoughts going through there. I keep forgetting how to word them, because it's no longer important.

There is no importance to life. You exist out of boredom. The collective response all humans strive for is to do something deemed by oneself as 'not boring'. If you were to have been created by a god, your creation would have been out of boredom, since there could not be a use for you that a god could not do. If it could take but a few days to create humans, I'd say I would destroy them all and create another batch with far more time and care put into it. If I could watch it for 2000+ years but only to have spent a few days on the craftsmanship, yeah, it was 'fun' while it lasted. Human v2 coming up.

As for what happens to you, I'll let boredom decide. Many seem to have come to the conclusion that their 'rot in a box' theory sounds the best to their boredom, only because it sounds the most 'interesting' to their depressive behavior.

That's my theory. It took many years to come up with it, but it was entirely worth it. Then again, I'm a nutcase.

Also, 0 - 0 =/= 0
It equals everything else.
To take nothing away from itself, you have to put something there.

[Bea Lavesa]

Some romanticise the idea of being an everlasting part of the cosmos. Granted, the cosmos is indifferent rather than benevolent to us, but personally I must admit that I find the thought of my molecules recombining in infinite different ways for the rest of forever to be immensely thrilling. Of course, I have the benefit on not being all that clingy to life, but I still think that the idea of from star stuff to star stuff is really the most appealing out there, and that it should be applicable enough to someone as logical as you, DarkWyvernwings.

But even so, not everything that goes on inside your head has to be logical. In public, there are certain restrictions on what manners of illusions you are entitled to rub in people's faces, but the mind is your own world — and that's an entirely logical starting point. I think you're perfectly entitled to believe for yourself that somehow, through some inexplicable — or simply undiscovered — anomaly in the laws of nature, there is something beyond that makes you amount to something more. Despite its unlikelihood, no one has disproved such an option, and most likely no one ever will. Although it does go against my own principles to say this, it's undeniable that, as long as you keep the idea to yourself, any kind of crazy, creative, comforting logic applies.

I hope you come to terms with your dilemma, and that you don't bog yourself down within, like you said, the limits of organised religions. Those are really the backsides of faith, and the reason why I don't approve of humanity's comfort toy any more.

[vamperus]

I have had similar thoughts before about death and I still am scared about what happens after we die but hopefully one day I will become a person who is okay with dying. I was depressed for 7 years and wanted to die, but then I realized I'd be missing out on so much life, and not existing started to worry me. I would lay awake at night and think, where was I before coming to earth, and if i existed before why can't I remember anything?

My mother is a Christian now, and so is a lot of my family. They would talk about Jesus and I never really could believe it. I tried to force myself to believe in what they wanted but it just didn't feel right. I guess I thought religion is what makes people unafraid of death, but that's not true, religion doesn't give people morality and peace, our own thoughts and actions do.

Anyway, I began studying different religions, and even though I liked the idea of reincarnation, and if its possible I'd like to return to earth after death in a new body to experience life again, I didn't want to follow something I wasn't 100% sure about, but then I started researching Judaism, I had never been very religious but I felt the desire to believe in G-d. I started reading the Tanakh, and I got a few books centered around the Jewish faith and I started to believe in the one true G-d HaShem. I wanted to pray and not feel like I was just talking to the air and the stories I read convinced even more about G-ds existence. Of coarse there are many paths to one G-d, and I respect that some people chose to believe in no G-d, this G-dlessness wasn't for me though.

Here are some stories that helped me, "Maimonides tried to convince an atheist that there had to be a G-d who created the world. When hours of debate proved unsuccessful, the nonbeliever excused himself for a few moments to “take care of some personal business.” When he returned, Maimonides took out a parchment on which was written a beautiful poem with perfect rhyme and meter, expressing brilliant ideas. “What a strange thing happened while you were out of the room!” Maimonides said to his guest. “The ink happened to spill over my desk and as it blotted, it created these words by accident.” The man laughed and asked Maimonides why he wanted him to believe such a foolish impossibility. “Why do you reject what I am telling you?” Maimonides asked, “Because,” answered the man, “these words so carefully thought out with such great sense and meaning, they obviously had to be composed by someone with great intelligence. They didn't appear here by accident. Somebody had to do it.”
“Let your own ears hear what your mouth has said,” Maimonides answered “If you can't believe that a simple poem could have come into being by a quirk of fate, how much more the entire universe, whose wisdom encompasses so much more than these few words and whose profundity surpasses all human understanding ” "

Now when I first read this I thought, what a load of bull, this makes no sense, but after a few days I began to think deeply about the message this story provides, I soon believed more firmly in the existence of G-d. Then I began to pry to HaShem, I have a prayer book called a Siddur, it has prayers for Holidays, and daily prayers, morning, noon and night. Then I began to praise G-d though out the day with out realizing it, I had never done this before, and I was remembering the prayers from my Siddur which also made me glad.

Next I began to read a book, which I suggest you look into at the very least, called The Chumash stone edition from ArtScroll.com, it has the five books of Moses, or as Christians call it the Old Testament, with commentaries from different Rabbis explaining what exactly is being said and what the deeper meaning is. If your interested I can tell you what other books have helped me to understand and find G-d.

Another thing that gives me comfort about the afterlife is my mother. She has always told me stories about spirits, and that she can see the souls of people who have died and stayed on earth, and I realize at this point a lot of people would be questioning her sanity and credibility but she has told me things about what she has seen that has lead me to believe her. For example, I went to my friend Billy's house to drop something off and he has a room in the back where when you get near the closet you feel like the air is thick, and when I felt that uneasiness I left the house. I went to my mom who was outside and she said, “Someone died in the closet in the back of this house, suicide I think.” I was like WTH, so I went inside and asked Billy if someone died there and he said the guy who owned the house last shot himself in the closet. I was really freaked out, and I believed every word she told me about seeing spirits, there is no way she could have known that, she never spoke to Billy or anyone who lives in that house before.

I also watched a video a few days ago about a man who didn't believe in G-d and he died of cardiac arrest and he tells his story about what he experienced after he died, you can watch it here .

I feel the need to state that this is just my opinion on death and the afterlife, and I'm not interested in hearing about how there is no G-d. I believe because to not believe isn't an option for me. I respect that some people chose to believe in no G-d, but I also expect the same respect in return about my beliefs. I wrote this to try and help, as I feel your situation is similar to mine.

[Eltiana]

DarkWyvernwings

I'm not asking for a 'Christian' response, or a 'Buddhist' or 'Hindi' or 'Islam'. I just... was wondering why people who do believe DO believe, in whatever they believe. I'm looking for hope I guess.

I consider myself to be a Deist. Deism is a way of thinking that allows more flexibility while still believing there is some form of higher power out there. I feel this is important, as I honestly don't feel that my beliefs all would fit under one organized religion, and I don't feel I should have to change my beliefs to fit into one.

[DarkWyvernwings]

Scary things have started happening to me after posting this, and while knowing law of large numbers as well as the way humans are inclined to see things as 'coincidental', it was still weird. My dog was diagnosed with heart worm (a deadly parasite when untreated) and my grandmother had a heart attack. Both fatal occurrences were... dampened. The dog will be treated shortly (with a 30% or lower fatality risk), and the heart attack was mild (which is a strange thing to say). It makes me wonder about divine interventions... and why would a God want to influence a single human life.

Going back to the logic, the law of large numbers would suggest that both things could and would happen. Even more logical is the timing. This is the time of year my dog only goes to the vet, and holidays are stressful even to those not particularly involved in them.

Still, that the occurrences focused around the heart, an organ that is so closely linked to the soul in human minds, bothers me... Again, the fact that I am already thinking about this would lead the mind to draw conclusions that are not strictly logical as our minds aren't in fact, programmed logically. Still, thought I'd put that out there.

I remember when I was in 8th grade, my science teacher said something along these lines:

"When you look at it, everything in the universe is made perfectly. The smallest systems are built like the largest, a molecule and a solar system work the same way. The longer you study, the more you see the perfection."

I loved that, but, gravity determines much of what was said... Though gravity is un-unified... Anyway, humans find beauty in the 1,1,2,3,5,8,13Fibonacci Sequence. It's the pattern and the pretty curves and what not. We like patterns. We like to draw connections. We like to make things. (Art isn't distinctly human, birds of paradise create artistic nests to impress mates.)

I guess I'm caught in the chicken and the egg situation. Did God create us, or did we create God. And could we create a God who could save us? All of the energy we pour into prayer has to go somewhere, and there is a large amount of energy going on there.

Anyway, more food for thought, and I really appreciate all of the responses so far!

[Mynolis]

DarkWyvernwings

Mostly, I want to believe that when I die, and the neurons in my brain stop firing, that I will continue to exist. I want to believe in a God, or an Order, or even a Reason, and know that when I cease my function that I haven't been striving in vain... But... I'm logical, and I easily tear apart 'signs', even when I don't want to.

I used to believe that because I had everything I wanted, that there was obviously a God. Then, I realized that it is just as likely (statistically more likely) that my parent's financial stability is why I have: a horse, a cat, a dog, a car, a college education... I was diagnosed with chemical depression (let's save the depression debate for a different forum, kthanksbye) and I wondered how there could be a God who left me physically unable to be happy as I am. I don't blame this God for this, I just wonder about it.

I want to be able to thank someone when things go right, and talk to someone when things go wrong. I want to believe in the God I envision, a kind caring diety who doesn't give a s**t if you're straight, gay, bi, tri, pan, black, white, Hispanic, Asian. A God who places obstacles in our lives for us to overcome, and who will reward the majority of us with an eternity.

I don't want to cease to exist. The thought sends my heart off on a mission to beat fast enough to mimic a bird. I want faith in something. It's illogical to ask you to give me reason to have faith, but I'm thinking sometimes logic isn't the best... I don't know.

I'm not asking for a 'Christian' response, or a 'Buddhist' or 'Hindi' or 'Islam'. I just... was wondering why people who do believe DO believe, in whatever they believe. I'm looking for hope I guess.

I believe in Christianity is because mainly my God has given me hope in times when I barely thought I could make it through. He has given me comfort when I need it and I was calmed by His grace.

Hope it's not too "Christian-ish" for you.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

If its any help, I used to be really terrified of dying as well. But...well...I've sort of gotten over that.

Ok, there's no reason to believe that consciousness continues after death.
But do you REALLY want there to be? Eternity is a long, long time.

But the atoms that make up your body WILL continue to exist. They were forged together in the heart of a star long before they were apart of you, and they will continue after the concept of "you" is gone. They will change form and arrangement and spread back out into the universe. The carbon and iron and calcium that make up you will never go away. They will become part of the trees and the grass and other animals and the air we breath.

You weren't alive for billions of years before you were born, and it didn't bother you then, did it?

[DarkWyvernwings]

Mynolis

DarkWyvernwings

Mostly, I want to believe that when I die, and the neurons in my brain stop firing, that I will continue to exist. I want to believe in a God, or an Order, or even a Reason, and know that when I cease my function that I haven't been striving in vain... But... I'm logical, and I easily tear apart 'signs', even when I don't want to.

I used to believe that because I had everything I wanted, that there was obviously a God. Then, I realized that it is just as likely (statistically more likely) that my parent's financial stability is why I have: a horse, a cat, a dog, a car, a college education... I was diagnosed with chemical depression (let's save the depression debate for a different forum, kthanksbye) and I wondered how there could be a God who left me physically unable to be happy as I am. I don't blame this God for this, I just wonder about it.

I want to be able to thank someone when things go right, and talk to someone when things go wrong. I want to believe in the God I envision, a kind caring diety who doesn't give a s**t if you're straight, gay, bi, tri, pan, black, white, Hispanic, Asian. A God who places obstacles in our lives for us to overcome, and who will reward the majority of us with an eternity.

I don't want to cease to exist. The thought sends my heart off on a mission to beat fast enough to mimic a bird. I want faith in something. It's illogical to ask you to give me reason to have faith, but I'm thinking sometimes logic isn't the best... I don't know.

I'm not asking for a 'Christian' response, or a 'Buddhist' or 'Hindi' or 'Islam'. I just... was wondering why people who do believe DO believe, in whatever they believe. I'm looking for hope I guess.

I believe in Christianity is because mainly my God has given me hope in times when I barely thought I could make it through. He has given me comfort when I need it and I was calmed by His grace.

Hope it's not too "Christian-ish" for you.

Sorry, when I said I wasn't looking for a 'Christian' response, I meant that I wasn't asking for the answers from the holy books. I know a lot of the canonical answers already.

[TheyCallMeJustiursa]

You might want to take a look into Eclectic Neo-Paganism. In ENP you yourself create your own religion through self-reflection of all different kinds, research, hard work, doubt and seeking and faith. I used to be a lot like you. I wanted something to believe in but I couldn't really bring myself to. Then I discovered Paganism and in particular ENP. From there I worked to create my own Path. I still have yet to answer for myself what happens after death but its likely a version of the Norse belief.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

It really seems like your problem is that your just afraid of death. That's perfectly natural, but there's really nothing too comforting I can tell you. People die. Everyone dies. It's just what happens.

What you need to ask yourself then is how much are you willing to purposely delude yourself with forced belief to ignore that natural fact?

[DarkWyvernwings]

[Ren The Ryoko]

If its any help, I used to be really terrified of dying as well. But...well...I've sort of gotten over that.

Ok, there's no reason to believe that consciousness continues after death.
But do you REALLY want there to be? Eternity is a long, long time.

But the atoms that make up your body WILL continue to exist. They were forged together in the heart of a star long before they were apart of you, and they will continue after the concept of "you" is gone. They will change form and arrangement and spread back out into the universe. The carbon and iron and calcium that make up you will never go away. They will become part of the trees and the grass and other animals and the air we breath.

You weren't alive for billions of years before you were born, and it didn't bother you then, did it?

I go through waves of being terrified and waves of contentment with death. They tend to fall in sync with my fear that there is no God. I can't believe in an afterlife without a God. I also have a problem with the origins of God. How was God made? Did we make him or did he make us? But then, I keep looking at the origins of the Universe and wondering similar things. If the big bang happened because of an amalgamation of particulates into a super dense star, where did the particulates come from? Why is there energy? Why does physics make sense (by this I mean, why are there even rules to chaos)?

As to your last statement: I never thought of that, that I wasn't alive for a billion years before now. I guess it doesn't bother me because I have no investment in it. Or maybe because there is an acceptance that it happened. Or maybe I'm comfortable with it because I feel, maybe I was there? In the same way we are 'there' when we are babies. There is no memory, only acceptance. I wouldn't change the past, not an iota of it, even if I could. It's horrible and wonderful, and filled with things that simply had to happen. Even in my own life I am at peace with the past. The past is settled and done. The future is what I have to fear. I believe in no fate or destiny to take the burden from my shoulders, and I waver about a God.

I read someplace that human conception of time is dependent on age. As children we experience time as a much slower thing, which is why days seem to go faster when we're older. The article went on to say that if we were to be eternal, that time would continue to pass exponentially faster, until watching stars would be like watching fireworks, the budding, the growth and the final explosion. It makes me think Eternity isn't something to be feared, but to look forward too, like a movie. Besides, eventually one would stop experiencing time all together.

[[Ren The Ryoko]]

DarkWyvernwings

[Ren The Ryoko]

If its any help, I used to be really terrified of dying as well. But...well...I've sort of gotten over that.

Ok, there's no reason to believe that consciousness continues after death.
But do you REALLY want there to be? Eternity is a long, long time.

But the atoms that make up your body WILL continue to exist. They were forged together in the heart of a star long before they were apart of you, and they will continue after the concept of "you" is gone. They will change form and arrangement and spread back out into the universe. The carbon and iron and calcium that make up you will never go away. They will become part of the trees and the grass and other animals and the air we breath.

You weren't alive for billions of years before you were born, and it didn't bother you then, did it?

I go through waves of being terrified and waves of contentment with death. They tend to fall in sync with my fear that there is no God. I can't believe in an afterlife without a God. I also have a problem with the origins of God. How was God made? Did we make him or did he make us? But then, I keep looking at the origins of the Universe and wondering similar things. If the big bang happened because of an amalgamation of particulates into a super dense star, where did the particulates come from? Why is there energy? Why does physics make sense (by this I mean, why are there even rules to chaos)?

As to your last statement: I never thought of that, that I wasn't alive for a billion years before now. I guess it doesn't bother me because I have no investment in it. Or maybe because there is an acceptance that it happened. Or maybe I'm comfortable with it because I feel, maybe I was there? In the same way we are 'there' when we are babies. There is no memory, only acceptance. I wouldn't change the past, not an iota of it, even if I could. It's horrible and wonderful, and filled with things that simply had to happen. Even in my own life I am at peace with the past. The past is settled and done. The future is what I have to fear. I believe in no fate or destiny to take the burden from my shoulders, and I waver about a God.

I read someplace that human conception of time is dependent on age. As children we experience time as a much slower thing, which is why days seem to go faster when we're older. The article went on to say that if we were to be eternal, that time would continue to pass exponentially faster, until watching stars would be like watching fireworks, the budding, the growth and the final explosion. It makes me think Eternity isn't something to be feared, but to look forward too, like a movie. Besides, eventually one would stop experiencing time all together.

Part of being open, and rational and skeptical of the world is to learn to be ok with uncertainty at times. Accept what you are sure of, and hold off acceptance for things you aren't. You have no proof there's a God? Don't believe in God. Simple as that. Yes, there are still questions, but there always will be. It's easier to sort the world into "things there is evidence for" and "things there is not evidence for" than it is to sort the world into "things I want to be true and so are" and "things I don't want to be true, and so aren't" because very often you'll find that the Universe does not cater to your preferences.

[puella in somnio]

DarkWyvernwings

I want to be able to thank someone when things go right, and talk to someone when things go wrong. I want to believe in the God I envision, a kind caring diety who doesn't give a s**t if you're straight, gay, bi, tri, pan, black, white, Hispanic, Asian. A God who places obstacles in our lives for us to overcome, and who will reward the majority of us with an eternity.

The following is opinion (lol obviously).

When something goes right, thank the person responsible for it. If that person is you, thank yourself. When things go wrong, talk to other people for help, and place blame on whoever or whatever is responsible. Stand up for the oppressed. Recognize an obstacle as an obstacle, and make a point of trying to learn something from it or get something useful out of it, divine purpose or none. Meaning doesn't need to come prepackaged.

As for ceasing to exist, well yeah, that's scary now, but it won't be scary after it's happened, is how I see it. I can't be afraid if I don't exist. I don't remember the time before I was born being scary at all, either. The idea of being conscious for eternity always scared me more. I look forward to a nice rest, though hopefully it won't happen before I'm done playing around. ;D