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Liberal Lionheart

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My 5am Rant

How often I hear this.... burning_eyes By definition, if you don't believe in any gods, you ARE an atheist. It's normal to be in denial about it considering the negative stigma that accompanies the word in our society, but by owning up to the word and just being your wonderful self, you are helping resolve the issue. Society is afraid of what it doesn't know and atheists are a minority, so nasty stereotypes arise and names are called. But when you own up to it, the next time your friend's parents ask you whether you want a little chinese or mexican for dinner, your friend can go "Hey! Adam is an Atheist, he's actually a really nice guy and he does NOT eat babies!" (Yeah, your friend is an idiot. And kinda racist. But it can't be helped.)


"But I'm still spiritual."
There are a ton of spiritual atheists. More than you think. Spirituality and Religion do not have to mean the same thing. Some atheists are very new-agey and believe in more than just what is physically presented to us, they just deny the god factor.

"But I don't believe in nothing..."
And you don't have to. There is something much bigger than you or I and that's humanity. Mosts Atheists I know are secular humanists. They put their faith, community, and charity into the world and the people inhabiting it no strings attached. So no, "Hey, we'll build this school for your village, but remember our specific God is the only reason we're doing this." (I could rant and rant about mission trips, but later.)

"But I can't PROVE that some god doesn't exist..."
If you can't find any proof for a god, but know you can't flat out deny that there may be one more than you could deny the existence of an invisible pink unicorn that silently follows you everywhere you go, you are an agnostic atheist.
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"I don't believe, and generally couldn't care less about the debates or politics."
Hello, Apatheist! Apathetic atheists weren't fooled by the smoke and mirrors they pulled out at church and just don't care about changing minds. In my experience, most Atheists are apathetic up until someone's religious belief's impede on someone else's civil and human rights, at which point they become a Militant Atheist fighting on the front lines for change.

Floppy Member

And now that we have your opinion, what would you like to discuss?

Liberal Lionheart

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The Legendary Guest
And now that we have your opinion, what would you like to discuss?
I don't want to discuss anything.... it's a 5am rant. Unless someone challenges it I guess. Like why would that be an opinion?

Floppy Member

Infamy In Action
The Legendary Guest
And now that we have your opinion, what would you like to discuss?
I don't want to discuss anything....


This is the Extended Discussion forum. The reason it exists is as the name suggests.


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it's a 5am rant.
The place for rants is in your journal, or possibly the CB.

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Unless someone challenges it I guess.


What for?

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Like why would that be an opinion?


It's not meant for discussion, by your own admission.
Some people still prefer the dictionary/archaic definition of atheism as the belief in no gods rather than the lack of belief in a god. To that end any and all agnostics would not fit the bill. Personally I think the PEOPLE should decide what words mean and the dictionary should comply accordingly. Thus to me atheism DOES INDEED mean simply the lack of belief in god. But additionally I don't really care what you call me. Names are just the skin of the meat. I just fancy the word atheist over agnostic because it is the term adopted by the more activist agnostics in our country.

Omnipresent Loiterer

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Amarok Anernerk
Some people still prefer the dictionary/archaic definition of atheism as the belief in no gods rather than the lack of belief in a god.


I don't think what they would prefer is of any importance. The way the term is used dictates its meaning, and the meaning of atheism is "a lack of belief." Taking preference to the "dictionary definition" would imply that a person believes something that they don't necessary believe.

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To that end any and all agnostics would not fit the bill.


They might...it would depend on whether they believed in a god claim or not.

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Personally I think the PEOPLE should decide what words mean and the dictionary should comply accordingly.


Generally speaking, they do. Dictionaries are mostly just records of how people use words; they don't dictate to us what words mean.

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Thus to me atheism DOES INDEED mean simply the lack of belief in god. But additionally I don't really care what you call me. Names are just the skin of the meat.


But some people do care what they are labeled...which is why its important that those labels have accurate definitions to them.

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I just fancy the word atheist over agnostic because it is the term adopted by the more activist agnostics in our country.


There are activist agnostics?

Liberal Lionheart

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Amarok Anernerk
Some people still prefer the dictionary/archaic definition of atheism as the belief in no gods rather than the lack of belief in a god. To that end any and all agnostics would not fit the bill. Personally I think the PEOPLE should decide what words mean and the dictionary should comply accordingly. Thus to me atheism DOES INDEED mean simply the lack of belief in god. But additionally I don't really care what you call me. Names are just the skin of the meat. I just fancy the word atheist over agnostic because it is the term adopted by the more activist agnostics in our country.


Well I wouldn't say agnostics believe in a god, rather than no god, but they don't completely dismiss the notion. I think the big difference is how far they lean towards atheism. From "Idk" for agnostics to "It's highly unlikely." for agnostic atheists. Also the two definitions sound as though they may have to do with polytheistic and monotheistic so maybe it's a cultural thing? :L One guy I knew thought all agnostics were just atheists hiding from the negative association that comes with declaring yourself atheist. ._.
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There are activist agnostics?


This is pretty much the only quote I have anything to say regarding. Everything else you mentioned seemed more like an addendum than anything of issue.

Yes there are activists "agnostics." I am referring to those who generally oppose the legislation of the religious right. Those who don't think a guy should be prosecuted for a lewd picture involving a Jesus statue. Those who think "under God" and "in God we trust" should be taken out of our pledge and money respectively. Those who fought to get "so help me God" taken out of the airforce enlistment oath. Gay rights activists. Etc. In a nut shell those agnostics who strive along with many other people of various worldviews to keep society secular. Such people when they rally together as a group, I have noticed, tend to adopt the modicum of atheist rather than agnostic even though 90% of them are both. Probably because atheism carries more of a punch.

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Also the two definitions sound as though they may have to do with polytheistic and monotheistic so maybe it's a cultural thing?


I don't understand what you mean. Agnosticism/atheism has little to do with monotheism/polytheism.

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One guy I knew thought all agnostics were just atheists hiding from the negative association that comes with declaring yourself atheist. ._.


I try not to subscribe to such black and white thinking. There could be many reasons. They may honestly feel that the more "neutral" term fits their feelings better than atheist. Perhaps they are a stickler for the dictionary definitions over the cultural ones. Or they may simply just like the way it sounds better. George Carlin sure didn't believe in a god. But he didn't consider himself an atheist because in his view "atheism is a religion."

Liberal Lionheart

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The Legendary Guest
And now that we have your opinion, what would you like to discuss?
I don't want to discuss anything....


This is the Extended Discussion forum. The reason it exists is as the name suggests.


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it's a 5am rant.
The place for rants is in your journal, or possibly the CB.

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Unless someone challenges it I guess.


What for?

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Like why would that be an opinion?


It's not meant for discussion, by your own admission.


Obviously the post is here to be public and talked about. But when you ask "What do you want to discuss?" As though the post itself and whatever any commenter adds isn't the obvious thing to discuss, there's nothing else to talk about.

Like you just did.

Like I said, If someone wants to add an idea to it, which you clearly did, I would discuss it. So again, why would it be an opinion?

Also, none of what I said should've come off as a threat to you. There's no reason to be so on the offensive. yum_cupcake

Floppy Member

Infamy In Action

Obviously the post is here to be public and talked about. But when you ask "What do you want to discuss?" As though the post itself and whatever any commenter adds isn't the obvious thing to discuss, there's nothing else to talk about.


Is there something wrong with seeking clarity then, to your way of thinking?
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Like you just did.


Did what? Ask for clarity? Ask for the OP to define the topic instead of trying to glean one from a rant, which may be incorrect?

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Like I said, If someone wants to add an idea to it, which you clearly did, I would discuss it. So again, why would it be an opinion?


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What "idea" are you under the impression I am adding here?


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Also, none of what I said should've come off as a threat to you.


Interesting comment to make, considering I didn't take it that way.


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There's no reason to be so on the offensive. yum_cupcake


Also interesting that you take me as being "on the offensive". Why is that?

Floppy Member

Amarok Anernerk
Some people still prefer the dictionary/archaic definition of atheism as the belief in no gods rather than the lack of belief in a god.


I find that more often than not, the people who prefer this definition are not themselves atheists. Is your experience similar?

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To that end any and all agnostics would not fit the bill.


Agnosticism does not fit either definition, in that it is a stance on knowledge, not belief at all.

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Personally I think the PEOPLE should decide what words mean and the dictionary should comply accordingly.


This is what has happened, though, because the dictionary is collection of words with usage, definitions, etymologies, phonetics, pronunciations, translation, and other information, which has been collated as determined by popular and common correct use. The majority of English-speakers are theists, hence the dictionary carries the common belief is theists as to what the word means. The dictionary is not meant to explain philosophical stances, so appealing to dictionaries for this type of thing very often leads to confusion of terms.

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Thus to me atheism DOES INDEED mean simply the lack of belief in god.


To me as well, and agnosticism means the stance that one does not claim to know if gods exist or not.

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But additionally I don't really care what you call me.


Further, I actually think it might be nice if it were not assumed that faith was the societal default to the degree that those who do not believe must identify themselves by what they do not engage in. Do we have words to identify ourselves as non-sports-watchers? Non-knitters?

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Names are just the skin of the meat.


Labels, which can be useful if they are necessary.

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I just fancy the word atheist over agnostic because it is the term adopted by the more activist agnostics in our country.


Active agnostics or activists who identify as agnostics?

Liberal Lionheart

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Amarok Anernerk
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There are activist agnostics?


This is pretty much the only quote I have anything to say regarding. Everything else you mentioned seemed more like an addendum than anything of issue.

Yes there are activists "agnostics." I am referring to those who generally oppose the legislation of the religious right. Those who don't think a guy should be prosecuted for a lewd picture involving a Jesus statue. Those who think "under God" and "in God we trust" should be taken out of our pledge and money respectively. Those who fought to get "so help me God" taken out of the airforce enlistment oath. Gay rights activists. Etc. In a nut shell those agnostics who strive along with many other people of various worldviews to keep society secular. Such people when they rally together as a group, I have noticed, tend to adopt the modicum of atheist rather than agnostic even though 90% of them are both. Probably because atheism carries more of a punch.

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Also the two definitions sound as though they may have to do with polytheistic and monotheistic so maybe it's a cultural thing?


I don't understand what you mean. Agnosticism/atheism has little to do with monotheism/polytheism.

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One guy I knew thought all agnostics were just atheists hiding from the negative association that comes with declaring yourself atheist. ._.


I try not to subscribe to such black and white thinking. There could be many reasons. They may honestly feel that the more "neutral" term fits their feelings better than atheist. Perhaps they are a stickler for the dictionary definitions over the cultural ones. Or they may simply just like the way it sounds better. George Carlin sure didn't believe in a god. But he didn't consider himself an atheist because in his view "atheism is a religion."


Not the words but the two definitions you provided. Lack of belief in A god vs. lack of belief in ANY god. Seemed cultural.

Well that kind of stuff seems like the person is just trying to disassociate from the community of atheists. But by social and dictionary definition they are an atheist regardless of how they personally feel about the word or whether or not they want to be involved in the movement. Of course people can call themselves whatever they want, but if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... X)
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Active agnostics or activists who identify as agnostics?


I'm not entirely sure there's a distinction. Activist agnostics is just a shorthand for the latter. It doesn't necessarily imply what they are activist about. But if hairs do need to be split, I mean the latter I guess. I go into further detail in one of my above replies.

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Lack of belief in A god vs. lack of belief in ANY god. Seemed cultural.


Well in that sense everyone is atheistic or agnostic to SOME god. It would make either term so universal as to render them pointless.

Floppy Member

Amarok Anernerk
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Active agnostics or activists who identify as agnostics?


I'm not entirely sure there's a distinction. Activist agnostics is just a shorthand for the latter. It doesn't necessarily imply what they are activist about. But if hairs do need to be split, I mean the latter I guess. I go into further detail in one of my above replies.


Yes I noticed after hitting "post", and the inclusive word for such people is "secularists", regardless of how they identify with respect to belief or knowledge. Agnosticism is not a middle ground position on faith.

Floppy Member

Amarok Anernerk


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Lack of belief in A god vs. lack of belief in ANY god. Seemed cultural.


Well in that sense everyone is atheistic or agnostic to SOME god. It would make either term so universal as to render them pointless.


Everyone does have a stance on belief - if they do not claim a belief, they are atheist by default. Agnosticism is a different matter from belief:

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