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Northawke_rs's avatar

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Honney Boy
Northawke_rs
You can be a Lokean if you consider him to be a non-supernatural being and merely anothr lifeform. That would still mean you're an atheist as well. But as soon as you consider Loki to be divine and something supernatural you're automatically not an atheist anymore.


That would involve being able to ignore that Loki is a god, and that the RELIGION WHERE YOU WORSHIP LOKI AND THE AESIR IS CALL ODINISM.


So? Religion is flexible if nothing else. And as she's already said, she's merely giving a name to something she feels. Her Loki might not be Odinism's Loki at all.
Northawke_rs
Religion is flexible if nothing else.


How so?
Requiem ex Inferni's avatar

Eloquent Streaker

You best connect with the Norse equivalent of Satan?



Being atheist and Lokean sounds contradictory- revering Loki kind of implies that you believe he exists, which means you're not an atheist.
The New Wineskin


Overall, given the fact that you doubt his existence, I would call you, at best, an agnostic apatheist.


This. If you believe, as you seem to, in the possibility of a God/gods, even if based on current experience/information you don't believe in them, it would seem more accurate to say that you are agnostic rather than atheist.

It is possible to be apatheist and agnostic, but since you do have some interest in the idea of deities, it's questionable whether or not that label fits.

I'd say you are an agnostic, possibly apatheist as well, with an admiration for or identification with the concept of Loki... not really atheist, and not really a true Lokean either since you don't fully believe in him.
Honney Boy's avatar

Quotable Harvester

Northawke_rs
Honney Boy
Northawke_rs
You can be a Lokean if you consider him to be a non-supernatural being and merely anothr lifeform. That would still mean you're an atheist as well. But as soon as you consider Loki to be divine and something supernatural you're automatically not an atheist anymore.


That would involve being able to ignore that Loki is a god, and that the RELIGION WHERE YOU WORSHIP LOKI AND THE AESIR IS CALL ODINISM.


So? Religion is flexible if nothing else. And as she's already said, she's merely giving a name to something she feels. Her Loki might not be Odinism's Loki at all.


I don't know what world you're living in, but here the slightest variation in how you worship Jesus can get your church bombed, and there's only one Loki.
Northawke_rs
Honney Boy
Northawke_rs
You can be a Lokean if you consider him to be a non-supernatural being and merely anothr lifeform. That would still mean you're an atheist as well. But as soon as you consider Loki to be divine and something supernatural you're automatically not an atheist anymore.


That would involve being able to ignore that Loki is a god, and that the RELIGION WHERE YOU WORSHIP LOKI AND THE AESIR IS CALL ODINISM.


So? Religion is flexible if nothing else. And as she's already said, she's merely giving a name to something she feels. Her Loki might not be Odinism's Loki at all.



Some people want to believe that their God is good and kind and all forgiving,as it says in their Bible they have never read, and follow only what they like of Jesus' tennants and then say they are Christians.

People can go completely against what the Qur'an, and still all them selves Muslim.

That doesn't make it true, accurate or right.

She can call herself a turnip, but that will not make her a turnip, nor will it make turnips warm-blooded bipeds.



There's Fandom and there's Religion.

Guess where really liking the concept of a deity falls.


Further, to disrespect a deity's pantheon and contextual culture disrespects that deity.

This used to be known as blasphemy.

It's akin to taking a crap on the beliefs.

So the OP is a fan of Loki and is moved by the idea of someone she doesn't believe in.


Is this religion?
Organized faith?
faith at all?

No.

It is fandom


And not terribly insightful of respectful fandom at that.

To not acknowledge Loki's place in the Aesir, his importance in the Aesir, how he became part of the Aesir, and all that he is is a disservice to him. It belittles him, all that he is and all that he stands for.


Unless, of course she doesn't mean the great Trickster of the Aesir. True, she could mean some other Loki, some stand alone monotheistic Loki deity completely unrelated- who, being a singular deity would then be a creator deity by default, and not in the archetype of trickster.....
Then it's still fandom, but not a crap on a entire belief system , just liking an idea that she made up one day
Degreenified Elphaba
Because that seems to be my current religious leaning.

I'm an Atheist because, Realistically, I don't believe in the existence of Gods.

I'm an Apatheist because, if Gods were proven to exist, I really wouldn't give a rat's a** about it anyway aka Humans are better anyway.

And I'm (suspecting, anyway) that I'm Lokean because, out of all the other Gods, I feel as though I connect with him best, to the point of him being my muse when it comes to artistic expressions. Though that relationship might be hampered somewhat with my doubts of his existence.

I'm actually perfectly okay with this combination, it's just I have no idea how I'm meant to express it.

I know there are Atheistic pagans, who claim to be both Atheist and Pagan complete with their own patron god/s, but beyond that claiming, I've yet to see a more detailed outline of it. Should I do rituals/offerings, even if I believe it's kind of going to waste?
If you don't believe in gods you are atheist.
Being atheist doesn't mean you aren't open minded or that you couldn't accept the existence of deities if you were given believable proof.

People like rituals and routines. It makes them feel secure. Morning coffee, family dinners on a certain day of the week or a cigarette before bed

If you want something to do with your time, some habituation perhaps you could find something that doesn't belittle someone else's beliefs, like a cup of tea at 4 pm every day, or some such. I wouldn't suggest you make sacrifice or perform libations to someone you don't acknowledge as existing any more than I would suggest you ingest the Holy Host at communion.

You could even have herbal tea if that make you feel better.

If you don't believe, you don't believe. Pretending and going through the motions just make a mockery of the deity, the beliefs, and the people that hold them.
Northawke_rs's avatar

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Lucky~9~Lives
Northawke_rs
Religion is flexible if nothing else.


How so?


I suggest you get a history book on any known religion and follow how it's changed in the course of time. For example, Christianity. A first century christian would be apalled to see the shape Christianity is in now and probably would barely recognize it. Even religions that feel they've been stable over many centuries really have not been.
Northawke_rs's avatar

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Honney Boy

I don't know what world you're living in, but here the slightest variation in how you worship Jesus can get your church bombed, and there's only one Loki.


You might have noticed that there's literally hundreds of subsects within Christianity that worship Jesus differently. I'll give you the same advice I gave someone else in here: get a history book on a religion and see how its tenents have changed. Religion is not nearly as static as people seem to think.

And I can assure you that the way you worship Loki (if you do) is nothing like the way Loki was originally worshiped. This says nothing about the strength of your beliefs. It just shows that religion is experienced through being human and through the culture that a human finds him or herself in. Therefore it's subject to change. I'm not making any statements about the factuality of whatever deity: I'm merely saying that how people view Loki (in your case) is very different throughout time.
Northawke_rs's avatar

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vacant dream


Some people want to believe that their God is good and kind and all forgiving,as it says in their Bible they have never read, and follow only what they like of Jesus' tennants and then say they are Christians.

People can go completely against what the Qur'an, and still all them selves Muslim.

That doesn't make it true, accurate or right.

She can call herself a turnip, but that will not make her a turnip, nor will it make turnips warm-blooded bipeds.



There's Fandom and there's Religion.

Guess where really liking the concept of a deity falls.


Further, to disrespect a deity's pantheon and contextual culture disrespects that deity.

This used to be known as blasphemy.

It's akin to taking a crap on the beliefs.

So the OP is a fan of Loki and is moved by the idea of someone she doesn't believe in.


Is this religion?
Organized faith?
faith at all?

No.

It is fandom


And not terribly insightful of respectful fandom at that.

To not acknowledge Loki's place in the Aesir, his importance in the Aesir, how he became part of the Aesir, and all that he is is a disservice to him. It belittles him, all that he is and all that he stands for.


Unless, of course she doesn't mean the great Trickster of the Aesir. True, she could mean some other Loki, some stand alone monotheistic Loki deity completely unrelated- who, being a singular deity would then be a creator deity by default, and not in the archetype of trickster.....
Then it's still fandom, but not a crap on a entire belief system , just liking an idea that she made up one day


It's actually what happens within religion on a daily basis. The Christians had several councils in ancient times just to determine what properties Jesus had. Some of them didn't agree with others and it became a huge mess. The Eastern Orthodox and Western churches couldn't even agree on the existence of the holy trinity. I assume you still consider both of them religious? Your reaction has more to do with your own opinion of Loki (and that's fine by me) than with an actual standard in religion. She's not a Lokean by your definition, okay. She might not even be a Lokean by any narrow definition as has been given. That does not mean that she can't be a Lokean by her own definition. That might mean nothing to others, but it might mean quite a bit for her own religious experience and it is quite common within any type of religions. This is how subsects start. If she gets more people to agree with her definition, eventually it will not be a blasphemy anymore, but a new standard.

Anyways, I'm merely illustrating the flexibility of religion. I had no intention to insult anyone by disputing their definition of their own religion.
Honney Boy's avatar

Quotable Harvester

Northawke_rs
Honney Boy

I don't know what world you're living in, but here the slightest variation in how you worship Jesus can get your church bombed, and there's only one Loki.


You might have noticed that there's literally hundreds of subsects within Christianity that worship Jesus differently. I'll give you the same advice I gave someone else in here: get a history book on a religion and see how its tenents have changed. Religion is not nearly as static as people seem to think.

And I can assure you that the way you worship Loki (if you do) is nothing like the way Loki was originally worshiped. This says nothing about the strength of your beliefs. It just shows that religion is experienced through being human and through the culture that a human finds him or herself in. Therefore it's subject to change. I'm not making any statements about the factuality of whatever deity: I'm merely saying that how people view Loki (in your case) is very different throughout time.


Please go to Ireland and let them know it's all OK.
Northawke_rs's avatar

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Honney Boy
Northawke_rs
Honney Boy

I don't know what world you're living in, but here the slightest variation in how you worship Jesus can get your church bombed, and there's only one Loki.


You might have noticed that there's literally hundreds of subsects within Christianity that worship Jesus differently. I'll give you the same advice I gave someone else in here: get a history book on a religion and see how its tenents have changed. Religion is not nearly as static as people seem to think.

And I can assure you that the way you worship Loki (if you do) is nothing like the way Loki was originally worshiped. This says nothing about the strength of your beliefs. It just shows that religion is experienced through being human and through the culture that a human finds him or herself in. Therefore it's subject to change. I'm not making any statements about the factuality of whatever deity: I'm merely saying that how people view Loki (in your case) is very different throughout time.


Please go to Ireland and let them know it's all OK.


In all honesty, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Just because there's people who disagree with this, it's not any less factual. But have it your way.
Northawke_rs
vacant dream


Some people want to believe that their God is good and kind and all forgiving,as it says in their Bible they have never read, and follow only what they like of Jesus' tennants and then say they are Christians.

People can go completely against what the Qur'an, and still all them selves Muslim.

That doesn't make it true, accurate or right.

She can call herself a turnip, but that will not make her a turnip, nor will it make turnips warm-blooded bipeds.



There's Fandom and there's Religion.

Guess where really liking the concept of a deity falls.


Further, to disrespect a deity's pantheon and contextual culture disrespects that deity.

This used to be known as blasphemy.

It's akin to taking a crap on the beliefs.

So the OP is a fan of Loki and is moved by the idea of someone she doesn't believe in.


Is this religion?
Organized faith?
faith at all?

No.

It is fandom


And not terribly insightful of respectful fandom at that.

To not acknowledge Loki's place in the Aesir, his importance in the Aesir, how he became part of the Aesir, and all that he is is a disservice to him. It belittles him, all that he is and all that he stands for.


Unless, of course she doesn't mean the great Trickster of the Aesir. True, she could mean some other Loki, some stand alone monotheistic Loki deity completely unrelated- who, being a singular deity would then be a creator deity by default, and not in the archetype of trickster.....
Then it's still fandom, but not a crap on a entire belief system , just liking an idea that she made up one day


It's actually what happens within religion on a daily basis. The Christians had several councils in ancient times just to determine what properties Jesus had. Some of them didn't agree with others and it became a huge mess. The Eastern Orthodox and Western churches couldn't even agree on the existence of the holy trinity. I assume you still consider both of them religious? Your reaction has more to do with your own opinion of Loki (and that's fine by me) than with an actual standard in religion. She's not a Lokean by your definition, okay. She might not even be a Lokean by any narrow definition as has been given. That does not mean that she can't be a Lokean by her own definition. That might mean nothing to others, but it might mean quite a bit for her own religious experience and it is quite common within any type of religions. This is how subsects start. If she gets more people to agree with her definition, eventually it will not be a blasphemy anymore, but a new standard.

Anyways, I'm merely illustrating the flexibility of religion. I had no intention to insult anyone by disputing their definition of their own religion.



As I have said. She can call her self a turnip, but that will not make her one nor will it change what a turnip is.

She has said that she DOESN'T HAVE BELIEF
So nope. Not a religion in faith or belief

She's making up who and what Loki is, if not recognizing Loki as part of the Aesir ans is solitary in her doing this so it's not religion in terms of pure social convention


It's writing a fan fiction and lighting a proverbial candle to it and asking if she should light a literal one.

It can have personal spiritual value to her to say " I like ________ a whole lot and it inspires me"
(fill in the blank with Loki, the color black, Morrissey, black nail polish, Harry Potter, Vampires, pie, etc..) but that doesn't make it a religion

People are inspired by a lot of things. Comic books, video games, the color blue, the smell of orchids, etc.

They can even think about them a lot and admire the characteristics and values of, say, the Justice League, and even try to emulate them while drawing fan art but that won't make it a religion.


Some people aren't religious.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Some people aren't spiritual. Some people aren't religious or spiritual.

why does this bother you?

It kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with this guy who wanted to know if he was gay, after all, he had some friends who were gay and was cool with it, like gay culture, owned Madonna albums and enjoyed musicals.

I asked: are you attracted to men?
answer: no
Do you want a romantic relationship with a man?
answer: no
Okay, your're not gay.

But then he wanted to clarify what if he was a little gay..homosenusal...
Did he want to be sensual with someone of the same gender? no...
Then, was he bi curious?
Was he actually curious? no...
so then he was homotollerant, or homosypathetic right?
WTH? Now, come on, if you're a man and aren't into men, you aren't gay. Time to get over it.

Sure you can make up names to make you feel like you fit in better with the social groups you want to be in but when it comes down to it, if you aren't true to who you are in love or faith, it's just not true.

Not having a religion box to check does not make someone an invalid person...at least not to me
Honney Boy's avatar

Quotable Harvester

Northawke_rs
Honney Boy
Northawke_rs
Honney Boy

I don't know what world you're living in, but here the slightest variation in how you worship Jesus can get your church bombed, and there's only one Loki.


You might have noticed that there's literally hundreds of subsects within Christianity that worship Jesus differently. I'll give you the same advice I gave someone else in here: get a history book on a religion and see how its tenents have changed. Religion is not nearly as static as people seem to think.

And I can assure you that the way you worship Loki (if you do) is nothing like the way Loki was originally worshiped. This says nothing about the strength of your beliefs. It just shows that religion is experienced through being human and through the culture that a human finds him or herself in. Therefore it's subject to change. I'm not making any statements about the factuality of whatever deity: I'm merely saying that how people view Loki (in your case) is very different throughout time.


Please go to Ireland and let them know it's all OK.


In all honesty, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Just because there's people who disagree with this, it's not any less factual. But have it your way.


If people don't do what you claim that they do that makes your claim not so much a fact as a, what they call it... lie.
Xiam
Degreenified Elphaba
I'm an Apatheist because, if Gods were proven to exist, I really wouldn't give a rat's a** about it anyway aka Humans are better anyway.

Care to explain this position?

Ryu Kei Shou Kawazu
Prince Baldr
Atheist + Loki (Divine Being) = WTF
Atheist + Loki (Divine Being) = WTF=wtf

...What?

He's saying it makes no sense, because Loki, being a god, would (under an atheist's stance) not exist. So why follow a being you don't believe to exist?

And don't give that Satanist "archetype" bullshit, if you want to follow an archetype as a model for living, you don't give it a name, just follow the archetype it represents. In this case (and, to be honest, the Satanist case as well) it's a Trickster archetype.


Actually, the Satanist archetype for living is a material and worldy one. Our view is to be independent, indulgent, and intelligent. It has nothing to do with trickery or otherwise imposing our will upon others, as many people seem to believe.

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