How can you put faith into God..?

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Oh My Master

So basically sight is not essential as far as evidence is concerned then?. What makes God's existence so unlikely?

Not for empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, to put it simply, is information acquired by direct observation or experiment. Because we cannot observe God by empirical evidence or the scientific method, God is defined as non-falsifiable. In order to prove the existence of God, one may go about with an a priori argument, meaning that this argument would not be dependent on experience. This wouldn't require empirical evidence. Of course, theologians and philosophers have been going down this road since Medieval times, probably also before that time period.

The Bible does have a test that we can call God out on. Regarding tithing, God said "Test me on this," telling us to give up something and allow Him room to bless us. The problem most people have is this: having faith is one thing, but acting on it requires the person to give something up, which many people are just not willing to do.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Oh My Master

So basically sight is not essential as far as evidence is concerned then?. What makes God's existence so unlikely?

Not for empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, to put it simply, is information acquired by direct observation or experiment. Because we cannot observe God by empirical evidence or the scientific method, God is defined as non-falsifiable. In order to prove the existence of God, one may go about with an a priori argument, meaning that this argument would not be dependent on experience. This wouldn't require empirical evidence. Of course, theologians and philosophers have been going down this road since Medieval times, probably also before that time period.

The Bible does have a test that we can call God out on. Regarding tithing, God said "Test me on this," telling us to give up something and allow Him room to bless us. The problem most people have is this: having faith is one thing, but acting on it requires the person to give something up, which many people are just not willing to do.

Back in the day when I went from thread to thread here at M&R, I would quote scripture left and right. Ask anyone who attended M&R around the time of 2003 - 2005. Now, what I am going to do, first of all, is ask for you to cite the chapter and verse. Second, I am going to ask for you to tell me how anyone who is not a theist is going to find any kind of god by giving something up.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Oh My Master

So basically sight is not essential as far as evidence is concerned then?. What makes God's existence so unlikely?

Not for empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, to put it simply, is information acquired by direct observation or experiment. Because we cannot observe God by empirical evidence or the scientific method, God is defined as non-falsifiable. In order to prove the existence of God, one may go about with an a priori argument, meaning that this argument would not be dependent on experience. This wouldn't require empirical evidence. Of course, theologians and philosophers have been going down this road since Medieval times, probably also before that time period.

The Bible does have a test that we can call God out on. Regarding tithing, God said "Test me on this," telling us to give up something and allow Him room to bless us. The problem most people have is this: having faith is one thing, but acting on it requires the person to give something up, which many people are just not willing to do.

Back in the day when I went from thread to thread here at M&R, I would quote scripture left and right. Ask anyone who attended M&R around the time of 2003 - 2005. Now, what I am going to do, first of all, is ask for you to cite the chapter and verse. Second, I am going to ask for you to tell me how anyone who is not a theist is going to find any kind of god by giving something up.

Malachi 3:10.
Theist or not, if you want to get something out of life, doesn't it take action and effort? Whether it's going to work, tithing, gardening, art, music... everything we do that we want to benefit from requires some form of cost on us, be it time, money, practice, etc.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Oh My Master

So basically sight is not essential as far as evidence is concerned then?. What makes God's existence so unlikely?

Not for empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, to put it simply, is information acquired by direct observation or experiment. Because we cannot observe God by empirical evidence or the scientific method, God is defined as non-falsifiable. In order to prove the existence of God, one may go about with an a priori argument, meaning that this argument would not be dependent on experience. This wouldn't require empirical evidence. Of course, theologians and philosophers have been going down this road since Medieval times, probably also before that time period.

The Bible does have a test that we can call God out on. Regarding tithing, God said "Test me on this," telling us to give up something and allow Him room to bless us. The problem most people have is this: having faith is one thing, but acting on it requires the person to give something up, which many people are just not willing to do.

Back in the day when I went from thread to thread here at M&R, I would quote scripture left and right. Ask anyone who attended M&R around the time of 2003 - 2005. Now, what I am going to do, first of all, is ask for you to cite the chapter and verse. Second, I am going to ask for you to tell me how anyone who is not a theist is going to find any kind of god by giving something up.

Malachi 3:10.
Theist or not, if you want to get something out of life, doesn't it take action and effort? Whether it's going to work, tithing, gardening, art, music... everything we do that we want to benefit from requires some form of cost on us, be it time, money, practice, etc.

We are Christians, not Jews.

Also, what has this to do with what I was talking about?

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Oh My Master

So basically sight is not essential as far as evidence is concerned then?. What makes God's existence so unlikely?

Not for empirical evidence. Empirical evidence, to put it simply, is information acquired by direct observation or experiment. Because we cannot observe God by empirical evidence or the scientific method, God is defined as non-falsifiable. In order to prove the existence of God, one may go about with an a priori argument, meaning that this argument would not be dependent on experience. This wouldn't require empirical evidence. Of course, theologians and philosophers have been going down this road since Medieval times, probably also before that time period.

The Bible does have a test that we can call God out on. Regarding tithing, God said "Test me on this," telling us to give up something and allow Him room to bless us. The problem most people have is this: having faith is one thing, but acting on it requires the person to give something up, which many people are just not willing to do.

Back in the day when I went from thread to thread here at M&R, I would quote scripture left and right. Ask anyone who attended M&R around the time of 2003 - 2005. Now, what I am going to do, first of all, is ask for you to cite the chapter and verse. Second, I am going to ask for you to tell me how anyone who is not a theist is going to find any kind of god by giving something up.

Malachi 3:10.
Theist or not, if you want to get something out of life, doesn't it take action and effort? Whether it's going to work, tithing, gardening, art, music... everything we do that we want to benefit from requires some form of cost on us, be it time, money, practice, etc.

We are Christians, not Jews.

Also, what has this to do with what I was talking about?

Alright, you want New Testament? Matthew 6:21 and 23:23. What people do with their money and resources really does a number to show what they consider valuable.

As for why this is relevant, you spoke of how God cannot be tested, when in the Bible, God said "Test me in this." I'm simply stating how God can indeed be tested, according to His own word.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Alright, you want New Testament? Matthew 6:21 and 23:23. What people do with their money and resources really does a number to show what they consider valuable.

I don't think Jesus cares about money as much as He cares about where the heart is.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

As for why this is relevant, you spoke of how God cannot be tested, when in the Bible, God said "Test me in this." I'm simply stating how God can indeed be tested, according to His own word.

Well, it's quite apparent you have no idea what I am talking about. I am speaking about falsifiability. Tell me when we can observe God and do experiments.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Alright, you want New Testament? Matthew 6:21 and 23:23. What people do with their money and resources really does a number to show what they consider valuable.

I don't think Jesus cares about money as much as He cares about where the heart is.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

As for why this is relevant, you spoke of how God cannot be tested, when in the Bible, God said "Test me in this." I'm simply stating how God can indeed be tested, according to His own word.

Well, it's quite apparent you have no idea what I am talking about. I am speaking about falsifiability. Tell me when we can observe God and do experiments.

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

This isn't even relevant to what I've talked about with Oh My Master.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

I was correct. You have no idea what I am talking about. Why would anyone need to prove that God is false? Did you just look at the word "falsifiability" and think, "Oh, he's talking about proving something to be false"? As for Malachi 3:10, what is God asking to be tested for? Ah, right, He's asking to be tested "if [He] will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need."

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

This isn't even relevant to what I've talked about with Oh My Master.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

I was correct. You have no idea what I am talking about. Why would anyone need to prove that God is false? Did you just look at the word "falsifiability" and think, "Oh, he's talking about proving something to be false"? As for Malachi 3:10, what is God asking to be tested for? Ah, right, He's asking to be tested "if [He] will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need."

Precisely: By being tested in that, the Biblical God being a God of keeping promises, God would therefore be forced to prove or disprove His own word, therefore His own existence. What more technicality could you possibly want? After all, all that "falsifiable" means is "confirmable: capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation." I've already supplied you with the experiment.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

This isn't even relevant to what I've talked about with Oh My Master.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

I was correct. You have no idea what I am talking about. Why would anyone need to prove that God is false? Did you just look at the word "falsifiability" and think, "Oh, he's talking about proving something to be false"? As for Malachi 3:10, what is God asking to be tested for? Ah, right, He's asking to be tested "if [He] will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need."

Precisely: By being tested in that, the Biblical God being a God of keeping promises, God would therefore be forced to prove or disprove His own word, therefore His own existence. What more technicality could you possibly want? After all, all that "falsifiable" means is "confirmable: capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation." I've already supplied you with the experiment.

Oy vey! Fine, you want to go with this? Prove to me God exists.

[Theopneustos]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

This isn't even relevant to what I've talked about with Oh My Master.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

I was correct. You have no idea what I am talking about. Why would anyone need to prove that God is false? Did you just look at the word "falsifiability" and think, "Oh, he's talking about proving something to be false"? As for Malachi 3:10, what is God asking to be tested for? Ah, right, He's asking to be tested "if [He] will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need."

Precisely: By being tested in that, the Biblical God being a God of keeping promises, God would therefore be forced to prove or disprove His own word, therefore His own existence. What more technicality could you possibly want? After all, all that "falsifiable" means is "confirmable: capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation." I've already supplied you with the experiment.

Oy vey! Fine, you want to go with this? Prove to me God exists.

And while I am at it, Malachi 3:10 doesn't prove anything. You're taking it out of context. What is more, should some miracle occur, how am I supposed to know if it was the God of Israel and not Odin or Zeus? The day you prove the existence of God is the day atheism won't have a leg to stand on.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Exactly: People tend to focus a lot on money, thus revealing what they value in life by what they do with their money.

This isn't even relevant to what I've talked about with Oh My Master.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Yes, you're talking about proving something to be false. God said, in the Bible, "test me on this." That is a test that can prove the Bible false. What aren't you getting about this?

I was correct. You have no idea what I am talking about. Why would anyone need to prove that God is false? Did you just look at the word "falsifiability" and think, "Oh, he's talking about proving something to be false"? As for Malachi 3:10, what is God asking to be tested for? Ah, right, He's asking to be tested "if [He] will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need."

Precisely: By being tested in that, the Biblical God being a God of keeping promises, God would therefore be forced to prove or disprove His own word, therefore His own existence. What more technicality could you possibly want? After all, all that "falsifiable" means is "confirmable: capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation." I've already supplied you with the experiment.

Oy vey! Fine, you want to go with this? Prove to me God exists.

No reason to get pissy just because I understand the words you're using. I've already given you the experiment, now it's up to you to do it. Otherwise the results won't mean s**t to you anyways, as prided as you are on your own sense of semantics. Just sayin.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

No reason to get pissy just because I understand the words you're using. I've already given you the experiment, now it's up to you to do it. Otherwise the results won't mean s**t to you anyways, as prided as you are on your own sense of semantics. Just sayin.

I'm not here to do your experiment. Even if I did your experiment, how would I be certain it was the god you were referring to? It could be Odin, Zeus, Ptah, the Flying Spaghetti Monster. So what I am left with is nothing because I can never know, and hence agnosticism. Prove God exists.

[Neophenx de Chrysalya]

Theopneustos

Neophenx de Chrysalya

No reason to get pissy just because I understand the words you're using. I've already given you the experiment, now it's up to you to do it. Otherwise the results won't mean s**t to you anyways, as prided as you are on your own sense of semantics. Just sayin.

I'm not here to do your experiment. Even if I did your experiment, how would I be certain it was the god you were referring to? It could be Odin, Zeus, Ptah. So what I am left with is nothing because I can never know, and hence agnosticism. Prove God exists.

Precisely my point. People don't want to do something like this because it requires them to give something up. The "experiment" is based on the God of the Bible, who had made a promise to humanity by doing so. Odin, Zeus, and Ptah don't seem to have left any kind of promises behind like that. The more you talk, the more it becomes clear that you don't even care about finding truth but arguing over it instead, otherwise you would have no reason to add new, unrelated ingredients to this kettle. I'm done here. Have fun arguing. Come back to me when you're actually searching for answers instead of adding arguments.

[Theopneustos]

Neophenx de Chrysalya

Precisely my point. People don't want to do something like this because it requires them to give something up.

What would I be giving up?

Neophenx de Chrysalya

The "experiment" is based on the God of the Bible, who had made a promise to humanity by doing so. Odin, Zeus, and Ptah don't seem to have left any kind of promises behind like that.

Irrelevant. If I did the experiment, but instead focused my attention on the god of Norse myth, or the god of Greek myth, or the god of Memphite theology, and I got what the God of Israel is asking for, then it would stand to reason that one of these other gods exist. The problem is that, even if such is the case, no one can ever be certain if it was Odin, Zeus, Ptah, Yahweh, or any god. It could just be how Nature works.

Neophenx de Chrysalya

The more you talk, the more it becomes clear that you don't even care about finding truth but arguing over it instead, otherwise you would have no reason to add new, unrelated ingredients to this kettle. I'm done here. Have fun arguing. Come back to me when you're actually searching for answers instead of adding arguments.

You're the one who "add[ed] new, unrelated ingredients to this kettle." So please, I will await for you to prove that God exists, as you said God can be proven to exist. I would think that such a man of your stature would have already done this experiment yourself and could have told the world about your experience with God. Oh, wait, your failure to even prove God exists shows that you failed at doing what you asked me to do. Hypocrite.

In the end, God is non-falsifiable, as there is no evidence to prove or disprove His existence. Thank you, and watch out for the door on your way out.