God?

[The Legendary Guest]

Andrew G Robinson

The Legendary Guest

Alluring_Mystique

The Legendary Guest

Alluring_Mystique

The Legendary Guest

Ah good, you seem to understand this definition of "creation". I don't. Please explain what this means.

Lets say the person that came up with the idea of transportation by train. It first started as an idea, then he or she imagined it. Then they got the resources necessary to get this idea into reality. They created it.

Or a drawing or painting. Lets say a girl has a pencil and a sketch book. Or paint and painting paper. She has an idea on what she wants to draw or paint. She imagines it or pictures it in her mind and begins drawing it or painting it. She finishes and now it has been created physically. smile

In other words, creation is anything that a human brain can think of, a human can gather existing materials to construct it with then using those materials make it using human-made tools?

Well its just basically the act of bringing something into existence

So it includes reproduction then?

yes reproduction is creation. Bring something new into existence is a good way to define my idea of creation.

As performed by humans using existing materials, then?

[Andrew G Robinson]

The Legendary Guest

Andrew G Robinson

The Legendary Guest

Alluring_Mystique

The Legendary Guest

In other words, creation is anything that a human brain can think of, a human can gather existing materials to construct it with then using those materials make it using human-made tools?

Well its just basically the act of bringing something into existence

So it includes reproduction then?

yes reproduction is creation. Bring something new into existence is a good way to define my idea of creation.

As performed by humans using existing materials, then?

ahhhhh, the existing materials would have to be created. and no creation is not exclusive to humans. in fact any thing that has matter or mass is capable of creation... however the creator is imagination. It spawns the ideas that bring things into our reality.

[The Legendary Guest]

Andrew G Robinson

The Legendary Guest

Andrew G Robinson

The Legendary Guest

Alluring_Mystique

Well its just basically the act of bringing something into existence

So it includes reproduction then?

yes reproduction is creation. Bring something new into existence is a good way to define my idea of creation.

As performed by humans using existing materials, then?

ahhhhh, the existing materials would have to be created.

I don't understand. Reproduction is the rearrangement of existing materials.

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and no creation is not exclusive to humans.

So then botany does fit the definition? Of course plants are also rearranging existing materials. What else fits this definition?

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in fact any thing that has matter or mass is capable of creation...

So then rocks can create things according to this definition?

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however the creator is imagination.

Are you saying that merely thinking of something is an act of creation?

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It spawns the ideas that bring things into our reality.

So a thought is a creation then, according to your definition?

[Andrew G Robinson]

The Legendary Guest

ahhhhh, the existing materials would have to be created.

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I don't understand. Reproduction is the rearrangement of existing materials.

yes something new is created, and thus reproduction is a form of creation. The problem with reproduction is the chicken and the egg paradox.

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and no creation is not exclusive to humans.

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So then botany does fit the definition? Of course plants are also rearranging existing materials. What else fits this definition?

yes botany does fit, if time pass's and there is a change that is creation.

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in fact any thing that has matter or mass is capable of creation...

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So then rocks can create things according to this definition?

and yes rocks are cappable of creation, maybe not with out an outside force acting on it, because I can only imagine the level of imagination a rock has, which is the first step to creation.

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however the creator is imagination.

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Are you saying that merely thinking of something is an act of creation?

yes with every thought comes the creation of an idea. or some kind of meaning.

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It spawns the ideas that bring things into our reality.

So a thought is a creation then, according to your definition?

[The Legendary Guest]

Andrew G Robinson

yes something new is created, and thus reproduction is a form of creation.

So then creation is something perfectly natural and expected as a result of life existing on the planet? How is it not then just action and reaction?

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The problem with reproduction is the chicken and the egg paradox.

What paradox is that? Why is it a problem? What has it got to do with this god concept of yours?

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yes botany does fit, if time pass's and there is a change that is creation.

So then genetic mutations are also an example of creation to your way of thinking?

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and yes rocks are cappable of creation, maybe not with out an outside force acting on it, because I can only imagine the level of imagination a rock has, which is the first step to creation.

Then the rock is not doing anything in and of itself, though, it is the existing matter that is being acted upon. What evidence is there that rocks have imaginations to begin with? Not getting this at all, dude.

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yes with every thought comes the creation of an idea. or some kind of meaning.

So according to you, doing my taxes is an act of creation? What meaning is there to intrusive, upsetting thoughts then? So like panic attacks are something that fits your model of creation too?

[Andrew G Robinson]

The Legendary Guest

So then creation is something perfectly natural and expected as a result of life existing on the planet? How is it not then just action and reaction?

well you don't need life for creation, you heat up hydrogen enough it becomes helium. thus the creation of helium. Creation is a by product of action and reaction.

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What paradox is that? Why is it a problem? What has it got to do with this god concept of yours?

which came first the chicken of the egg? How can you create a God with out there already being a God? and so my God concept is that the universe has always had an infinite amount of imagination, or energy that can be created or destroyed. This is God. And now God creates.

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So then genetic mutations are also an example of creation to your way of thinking?

yes

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Then the rock is not doing anything in and of itself, though, it is the existing matter that is being acted upon. What evidence is there that rocks have imaginations to begin with? Not getting this at all, dude.

that rock or burning bush could be my God, thus giving it an imagination.

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So according to you, doing my taxes is an act of creation? What meaning is there to intrusive, upsetting thoughts then? So like panic attacks are something that fits your model of creation too?

[The Legendary Guest]

Andrew G Robinson

well you don't need life for creation, you heat up hydrogen enough it becomes helium.

What's doing the heating, though?

Andrew G Robinson

thus the creation of helium.

That's the rearranging of preexisting matter into a different form of matter.

Andrew G Robinson

Creation is a by product of action and reaction.

That's the by-product of preexisting matter.

Andrew G Robinson

Which came first the chicken of the egg?

Why does this matter?

Andrew G Robinson

How can you create a God with out there already being a God?

Why do you feel the need to create a god to begin with? Suppose there just isn't a god and it's nothing more than your imagination. Imaginary things are not necessarily things which can manifest.

Andrew G Robinson

and so my God concept is that the universe has always had an infinite amount of imagination, or energy that can be created or destroyed.

Yet imagination is the product of a mind, which is a brain state. What evidence is there for an infinite brain?

Andrew G Robinson

This is God.

This doesn't even make sense, how do you demonstrate an infinite brain state?

Andrew G Robinson

And now God creates.

I don't get it. At all. All you've explained is perfectly normal phenomena and now you're labeling it "god". What makes a chemical reaction "god"?

Andrew G Robinson

yes

By what or whom? You've tied imagination to creation. What imagination is necessary for genetic mutations in plants?

Andrew G Robinson

that rock or burning bush could be my God, thus giving it an imagination.

You can think a doorknob is god, but that does not mean the doorknob has imagination. That means you have imagination.

So according to you, doing my taxes is an act of creation? What meaning is there to intrusive, upsetting thoughts then? So like panic attacks are something that fits your model of creation too?

Is there any particular reason you never answer my last quoted question? That's a bit confusing.

[Vestri Umbra]

I have no idea of what you are talking about, or how you got there.

[Sugarbeary]

I may be wrong, but it seems like your creator took a long time to brainstorm,and used all that time to carry out physics-led abilities like big bang/evolution. Theistic evolution doesn't jive with Creation or evolution. Events are misplaced, time aspect, etc.

[Marael]

So, not to throw a wrench in your intellectual engine, but if creation started with imagination, where does imagination come from?

[Graymalkino]

Marael

So, not to throw a wrench in your intellectual engine, but if creation started with imagination, where does imagination come from?

It created itself; imagination doesn't have to make sense

[Batyah]

Graymalkino

Marael

So, not to throw a wrench in your intellectual engine, but if creation started with imagination, where does imagination come from?

It created itself; imagination doesn't have to make sense

o.o you sir have my attention*sits and sips tea*

[Beowulf Reincarnate]

In order to take the approach of finding God by figuring out how the universe was created, you must presuppose that there is a God at all. That's the question I'd begin with.

im·ag·i·na·tion
iˌmajəˈnāSH(ə)n/
noun
the faculty or action of forming new ideas, or images or concepts of external objects not present to the senses

In order for imagination to exist, it must stand to reason that it is already possible to form new ideas. If you believe that imagination is what allows 'something to come from nothing', a mechanism for formulating ideas must have existed before anything else. Since a mechanism is the result of an idea, this is impossible.

Formally, I present this AAA-1 categorical syllogism;
P1: Mechanisms are the results of ideas.
P2: Imagination is a mechanism.
C: Therefore, Imagination is the result of ideas.

It follows, then, that imagination cannot exist before everything else.

The concept that the Big Bang implies 'something coming from nothing' is a horrendously flawed one. The Big Bang has something to say about t>0 but absolutely nothing to say about what caused the state of the universe to be as it was at t=0.

[Xiam]

Andrew G Robinson

God?

Sorry I'm late, what do you need? emotion_awesome

Andrew G Robinson

Whats on my mind truly is the question of the day... For starters I've been trying to figure out who or what my God is.

Probably not a question of the day, so much as the beginning of a very important thought experiment that not enough religious types have.

Andrew G Robinson

This questioning of my God has caused me, and many of you reading this some serious suffering, and I want to truly offer my gratitude to everyone who has ever tried to help me through any of my episodes, and an even stronger gratitude to those of you who have stuck by my side this whole time, yall never gave up on me, as is the fate of many who are less fortunate then I have been.

Alright then...

Andrew G Robinson

In my search for God I concluded that the only way to find him was to figure out how the universe was created. Which has lead me to learn a lot about of physics.

Well, I suppose you're on the trail followed by many physicists throughout history, then.

Andrew G Robinson

But the mystery has been in creation this whole time... because you can't create an infinite, yet our universe is full of them.

"Full of them" in what way? I can assume time and space are two infinites, unless you follow that time and space are (for all intents and purposes) the same.

Andrew G Robinson

And thats when I got to the question of how do you start creation... and the answer as simple as it is, took me 6 years, and 3 psychotic episodes to figure out.

Oh dear.

Andrew G Robinson

To start creation you need imagination... and thats the infinite that has always been and will always be.

Well... depends on the mind imagining.

Andrew G Robinson

I found my God. It would have to take an infinite amount of imagination to create time and space, out of nothing. And even more imagination to create matter.

Well... that makes the assumption that it was created at all. What's more... when you imagine something, do you create it? If I imagine a can of soda. Can see it as if it was in front of me. Can imagine the feeling of the cool, metal cylinder of aluminum in my hand. The weight of it. Can feel and hear the "tssk--pop!" of opening the can. Can smell the soda inside, can feel the solid can on my lips, followed by the fizzy cool liquid, with its taste of - oh, let's say lemon-lime.

Does this make it real? We don't certainly need an infinite imagination to imagine it to exist. It is, after all, a very limited thing.

Andrew G Robinson

Now my mind has been cleared so that I can focus on what matters most, and thats all of you guys!!! I feel like I have finally been set free from every thing thats been haunting me.

You're... welcome? I guess? It's on a similar track to what I've been thinking of lately. Because think about the things you imagine. That can of soda. Not quite real for us. But what if, on some plane of existence... it is real?

[The Legendary Guest]

Xiam

Andrew G Robinson

God?

Sorry I'm late, what do you need? emotion_awesome

I laughed so hard soda came out of my nose! It was lemon-lime...spooky... eek