God's an energy cheap skate/ Why pray so much?

[Monochrome Goggles]

Fermionic

[
That person is an idiot.

Yes.. yes she was.. and sometimes I wish I could take back the time wasted on hanging out with her. However, a few good things came out of it... very few.

First of all, I made another friend through her, one who actually made sense.
Secondly, I got to experience firsthand what a sociopath and/or a person with an attention complex. Her whole day seemed to center around when I logged on and what we did for a role play. It's like she had no other life besides one that was on the internet and her daily entertainment and happiness was measured by how much of her friend's time she consumed.

[Fermionic]

Monochrome Goggles

Fermionic

[
That person is an idiot.

Yes.. yes she was.. and sometimes I wish I could take back the time wasted on hanging out with her. However, a few good things came out of it... very few.

First of all, I made another friend through her, one who actually made sense.
Secondly, I got to experience firsthand what a sociopath and/or a person with an attention complex. Her whole day seemed to center around when I logged on and what we did for a role play. It's like she had no other life besides one that was on the internet and her daily entertainment and happiness was measured by how much of her friend's time she consumed.

Truly Scrumptious.

[Monochrome Goggles]

Fermionic

Truly Scrumptious.

Llol, it's ironic you say that. I'm eating lunch at this very moment! *shot* Along with a daily dose of drama from the chatterbox.

[Fireweed_honey]

Fermionic

Fireweed_honey

The fact that you describe people who pray as greedy, superstitious and uneducated says a lot about you.

Excluding "greedy" from the list, I'm not sure how praying can stop you looking superstitious and uneducated.

Took me a while to figure out what to say. Partly because I had some errands to run, and partly because you can scare the spit out of me, Fermionic.

I'm going to break this down into two parts: Superstitious and Uneducated.

As far as superstitious goes, I'll conceed. A lot of us are superstitious on some level. It's in the little things we do, sometimes unconciously. It can be prayer. It can be not wanting to walk under a ladder. It can be something left over from childhood, like not looking in the bathroom mirror until you turn on the light. Other then something concious, like prayer, a lot of us don't realize we carry any superstition in our everyday lives. Unless it's something on the level of high OCD where it interferrs with out daily lives, we don't think about it. So, if you want to call me superstitious, I'll take that. It's true.

Uneducated, however, brings about another picture to mind. When it's combined with superstitious, one gets an idea that the person being talked about has slipped back in the evolutionary track. One who is superstitious and uneducated is very undesirable and would be lower than what the one making the assumption believes themselves to be. Prayer (and religion) does not make one uneducated. I, myself, am a very educated person. I've met many well educated religious people, and many very well educated atheists, and a number of people of both sides who have education but act dumber than dirt. Having a religion does not demenish my diplomas or my pursuit of higher learning, nor has it done that do others who have religion. To suggest that because one is Christian or Muslim or Hindu, they are uneducated is, in and of itself, an uneducated statement.

So, if you want to say that I and anyone who prays is superstitious, fine. I'll take that. But do not suggest prayer makes me uneducated.

[Fermionic]

Fireweed_honey

Fermionic

Fireweed_honey

The fact that you describe people who pray as greedy, superstitious and uneducated says a lot about you.

Excluding "greedy" from the list, I'm not sure how praying can stop you looking superstitious and uneducated.

Took me a while to figure out what to say. Partly because I had some errands to run, and partly because you can scare the spit out of me, Fermionic.

I'm going to break this down into two parts: Superstitious and Uneducated.

As far as superstitious goes, I'll conceed. A lot of us are superstitious on some level. It's in the little things we do, sometimes unconciously. It can be prayer. It can be not wanting to walk under a ladder. It can be something left over from childhood, like not looking in the bathroom mirror until you turn on the light. Other then something concious, like prayer, a lot of us don't realize we carry any superstition in our everyday lives. Unless it's something on the level of high OCD where it interferrs with out daily lives, we don't think about it. So, if you want to call me superstitious, I'll take that. It's true.

Uneducated, however, brings about another picture to mind. When it's combined with superstitious, one gets an idea that the person being talked about has slipped back in the evolutionary track. One who is superstitious and uneducated is very undesirable and would be lower than what the one making the assumption believes themselves to be. Prayer (and religion) does not make one uneducated. I, myself, am a very educated person. I've met many well educated religious people, and many very well educated atheists, and a number of people of both sides who have education but act dumber than dirt. Having a religion does not demenish my diplomas or my pursuit of higher learning, nor has it done that do others who have religion. To suggest that because one is Christian or Muslim or Hindu, they are uneducated is, in and of itself, an uneducated statement.

So, if you want to say that I and anyone who prays is superstitious, fine. I'll take that. But do not suggest prayer makes me uneducated.

I scare you? Why is that?

I'm not going to comment on the superstitious part, if you do not mind.

I agree that someone can be educated and still pray. My argument was strung along notions of intelligence and intellectual honesty, not "education", per se.
You can hear that if you'd like, but of what you say, I agree; One can be both educated and pray. This is what happens when I casually treat words as synonyms when they aren't.

[Aporeia]

maenad nuri

That Catholic is an outlier. I grew up Catholic, brother is a priest. They not only consider themselves Christian, but among the original Christians.

The original Christians are dead.

[Victoria of Gallifrey]

As an agnostic-atheist church-goer (a term I've recently come to terms with over atheist) I used to, and still do to an extent, find prayer to be a waste of time. A lot of things people pray for, I just go out and do. And I used to boast quite a bit about being able to go out and get things done before God would simply simply deliver such things unto the people praying for them. My mentality was one of, "Ha... see, doing it yourself is more efficient than waiting for God to do it." Then some of them would simply tell me I was the vessel God chose to resolve those prayers that day. These people really make it hard to win an argument sometimes XD. Anyway, I know it gives people hope, but maybe it's about meeting half way. I think people that work towards what they pray for will find there prayers answered more than people that don't. Anyway, that's my two cents.

[rasta slang]

Why does it bother you if people pray? Why do you even care? It's not like anyone is chasing you down saying "LISTEN TO MY PRAYER!!!!" They're not harming anyone. You have the right to think whatever you want about it, don't get me wrong.

Personally, I believe prayer to be a powerful tool. However, I don't think simply praying about some things will just make them magically happen. Say you have a huge final coming up. Just because you pray "Let me pass this final!" and don't do anything to prepare doesn't mean you will pass. Remember, God helps those who help themselves. God could give you the will power to study, the focus to answer the questions, etc.

But that's just my thoughts.

[tuxkatz6]

I pray every day at least once, but prayer is so much more than just asking for things. God isn't a magic genie who grants wishes. Prayer is really communication more than anything. It's about coming to God as we are, broken or whole, and being real with him.

I like this C.S. Lewis quote on prayer:
"I pray because I can't help myself; I pray because I'm helpless. The need flows out of me all the time - waking and sleeping. Prayer doesn't change God; it changes me."

Prayer isn't about manipulating God at all. And (at least from a Christian perspective), we should be constantly praying to him to communicate with him. You seem to only be seeing prayer that treats God like a magic genie, which is sad to see. Not that we can't ask for things though - I prayed last week before a big exam for strength, memory, my brain to make all the connections it needed to, the grade I truly deserve, and the comfort after to not worry. I won't know how I did for a couple of months probably, but I do know that I feel better about it, and I'm comforted knowing God will provide even if I flunk.

I know not everyone views prayer in the same way, and especially my Catholic friends tend to go through the motions not really knowing what they're saying and/or use prayer as a wishlist more than anything. It's not wrong to ask for things (even material things...and God has enough time for everyone), but as a Family Circus comic once put it: " God does answer all prayers, but sometimes the best answer is 'No.'"

[Ask Jappleack]

Monochrome Goggles

Fall For Fame

I'd bite into your face...

Two people you know != All Christians.

Before I go on, I'm not Catholic.

I myself have a hard time praying at all, never really been the dependent type. And when I do, they're usually a thanks. Although, I recently found myself praying for my brother's safety in Afghanistan, but I guess I'm just a selfish b*****d.

As far as Catholocism goes, they are Christians, but they believe in the visible head of the church(the pope and bishops), which to me is borderline not blind faith.

But, to each their own.

... just to be close to your eyes.

I don't see it selfish to want the safety of a relative. Who am I to say what IS ok to pray for, but I certainly don't think praying for material possessions is one of those things.

I dunno, I find it iffy when people look to one person for the answers to what certain things mean. The pope seems more like an idol or something that the people can have to please their want of something tangible.

another way of looking at it isnt favors or wishes, but hopes. They hope they get a cell phone for their birthday for example so they share that with god.

[Avgvsto]

Lucky~9~Lives

Monochrome Goggles

But in all seriousness, it brought up another point that I found annoying about Christians and Catholics.

Catholics are Christians; saying "Christians and Catholics" is like saying "animals and cats".

nah, i disagree

[fschmidt]

Monochrome Goggles

Why do they so zealously pray over every little thing, or for that matter, for really, REALLY stupid and selfish material needs?

I mostly agree with the original post. Praying to get what you want isn't what prayer is supposed to be about. Prayer is supposed to serve as a reminder of what you are supposed to do. To paraphrase Kennedy, "ask not what God can do for you - ask what you can do for God". The Lord's prayer asks that "Thy will be done" meaning that God's will should be done. In the Old Testament, when the Jews had become corrupt but still prayed and gave offerings to God, God's response was:

I hate, I despise your feasts!
I can’t stand the stench
of your solemn assemblies.
Even if you offer Me
your burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them;
I will have no regard
for your fellowship offerings of fattened cattle.
Take away from Me the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.
But let justice flow like water,
and righteousness, like an unfailing stream.

The point of religion is justice and righteousness, not free gifts from God.

[Fireweed_honey]

Avgvsto

Lucky~9~Lives

Monochrome Goggles

But in all seriousness, it brought up another point that I found annoying about Christians and Catholics.

Catholics are Christians; saying "Christians and Catholics" is like saying "animals and cats".

nah, i disagree

You disagree that Catholics are Christian or that Cats are animal? Because, Catholics ARE Christian, and cats are animals.

[Avgvsto]

Fireweed_honey

Avgvsto

Lucky~9~Lives

Monochrome Goggles

But in all seriousness, it brought up another point that I found annoying about Christians and Catholics.

Catholics are Christians; saying "Christians and Catholics" is like saying "animals and cats".

nah, i disagree

You disagree that Catholics are Christian or that Cats are animal? Because, Catholics ARE Christian, and cats are animals.

i'm observing a squirrel doing the strangest things right now. It's like playing dead or something, or maybe trying to be stealthy. It's really quite interesting I wish you could see it.

[Monochrome Goggles]

Avgvsto

I'm observing a squirrel doing the strangest things right now. It's like playing dead or something, or maybe trying to be stealthy. It's really quite interesting I wish you could see it.

Hahaha, I get the feeling there's a double meaning in that! Or maybe I'm just over examining things. emotion_awesome