God and Satan, who is actually Evil?

[Bucky Goldstein]

Gods-Girl-Forever

The Vampire V

I read a report my friend Joey sent me and it made me ponder. After pouring over the Bible all night, I have come to see that maybe the author of the report maybe right.

Many faiths paint God has a powerful loving God always looking out for the well being of Man while the Satan is Man's destoyer and corruption and that all evil in the world exist because of him.

In the Book of Genesis, The Serpeant (Satan) tricked Eve into eating the fruit, making Mankind aware of itself, and if not for God keeping Adam and Eve ignorant of the punishments that would befall us. In truth, from what I read, God made no effort to teach us, we were his sheperds of the animals. While God made us ignorant, the Satan made us aware, strange how its seems evil helped us further then good.

The essay I read had a good point, in Genesis, there are actually two LORDs, the Lord God who created, and the Lord who helped Mankind after its banishment of Paradise. The faiths say this is God who protected Cain after he killed Abel(which, as the report says, he didn't kill Abel but rather out ranked him) but if you read later on, God called for the sacrifice of the first born, slaying of the people of Canaan, the destruction of His city of Jerusalem, the plagues of the Revelations, total obedience of Mankind or face total judgement.

Its interesting how God is said to be a merciful God yet He shows no restraint in our judgement.

It is said tha Lucifer fell do to his ambition and could rival God's power, rival even the power of the Creator, and that with his power, he plans to destroy mankind. Yet as I read the bible fully, its God that gets to destroying Mankind.

Ironic?

The entire Old Testament is full of bloodshed, and not once in all of it, is it caused by the Devil.

The book of Job, which I have opened to as I write this, is about a pure upright God worshipping who is tested by plague, horror, and pain.

"On day, the Angels came present to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came with them."

First, if Lucifer is the Satan, who was supposably banished down to hell, why can he come foreword and talk to God? In truth, in alot of faiths and their mono faith in one God, Lucifer is the equal of God (Good and Evil, two halves to make a perfect sphere), yet he was called to be an angel, in which God is also said to be an angel as he wrestled Jacob and many other presences before Man.

All religions are very closly tied together just time and Human nature calling each a different name or lowering on god below another (A God becomes an Angel, an Angel becomes a Nephilim, etc).

Look at Noah and the flood, God wishes to destroy mankind yet tells Noah of the flood and tells him to prepare an ark. In Babylonian myth, One God went to destroy the world with a flood, another told a single man of it and prepare a vessel for the animals and his family.

Another interesting twist is again back in Genesis, that in Adam's family tree in chapter 5, Cain is not listed. Is it because Cain was a murderer and he was exempt from the Family Tree?

Actually, it is said that Eve was helped to conceived to have a child by the Lord, who is said to be none other the Satan, protector of Cain who was the first born, and who was not Adam's child.

Interesting, that the first offspring of Mankind, was actually supposably from Evil. If you believe in the marriage of Jesus and Mary and their child, imagine passing a descendent of Satan on the street.

The Book of Revelations is an interesting concept, Man is granted peace by a sole man(The antichrist) yet God seeks to judge the world with pestilence and death. If the Antichrist is suppose evil, why does he bring peace to the world and it is the God that destroys it?

So blind is the truth.

I am no Satanist but neither am I a God worshiping faithist, I serve neither one, I am a Humanist and follow the teachings of Man, I am, like many others, a hunter for Truth.

For those who would like to read the report, he is the address:

http://www.the600club.com/satanism.f_satanism_14680_0_collapsed_5__1.html

Much thanks to Joey for this.

i think you dont serve Christ b/c you dont want to knucle under and serve someone higher than you. i can read through the lines in many of the things you and your freinds have said, and im disapointed. im a very strong Christ fallower (christian) the reson why i call myself Christ Fallower is b/c many people have used the name Christian b/c they think they will get to heaven but do all these sinful things too.uhh NO ya cant do that. so i use Christ fallower instead. my point here is satan is the bad guy Jesus is the good guy. you dont have to believe it but i just want to tell you that if there is things in the Bible you dont understand ask Jesus to revil things to you, and he will if your heart is in to it.
God Bless Jesus loves you all.^.^

I'll ask him next time I bump into him. I saw him on a bus once.

[Lord of Antlers]

God is good, Satan is evil. That's the context of the mythology. It can only be reversed if you take it completely out of its mythology, take them out of their respective roles, which is entirely pointless as you can do just about anything with the characters if you take them out of their mythology, holding wide the door for just about any argument to be made for or against either of them.

[Malevolent Jelly Bean]

Satan doesn't really pop up much in the bible. Usually he's not the one tossing firballs down on cities or killing some poor man's family in a twisted bet. (one story that did involve him and Satan, behaving like a pair of old buddies playing cards), or testing a father to see if he'd kill is own son to prove he was faithful enough.

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Section13

Consider this: Lucifer, which means "Light Bearer" btw, is almost always depicted as a being of light and/or immense beauty and power. It is also said a being of Light came before Mary and proclaimed her to be the mother of the child of God.
Lucifer, being the satan, adversary or deceiver, is not the adversary of God, but of man. In essence the devil is who God would send when he wants to screw with or test his followers. The story of Lu's fall from grace was a later addition to his mythology.

Lucifer is not Satan. I seriously don't know where you're getting this idea. Did Steve tell you that? Or perhaps you took it from Vita Adae et Evae? Or Paradise Lost?

Seriously. The references to "Lucifer" in the Bible are first to King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon, and later to the Messiah. Lucifer != Satan.

Quote:

Also, there is that one little discrepancy with Eve being the first woman. Genesis 1:27 says
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
However, in Genesis 2:21-22 is depicts God making a woman from Adam's rib well after Adam was created, so Eve would be the second woman. Check out the mythology on Lilith to find out just how just and loving God is.

Whoah, whoah, whoah. Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are parallel, not sequential, versions of the creation myth of Judaism. Second, The Alphabet of Ben Sira (the source of the Lilith myth) is dated somewhere between 700 and 1000 CE. Well after Christianity was an established religion. Even the Genesis Rabba, other work which depicts the concept that Eve was not Adam's first wife, is dated in the CE timeframe, and doesn't mention Lilith as said wife.

[bnthridiot]

Quote:

"In the Book of Genesis, The Serpeant (Satan) tricked Eve into eating the fruit, making Mankind aware of itself, and if not for God keeping Adam and Eve ignorant of the punishments that would befall us. In truth, from what I read, God made no effort to teach us, we were his sheperds of the animals. While God made us ignorant, the Satan made us aware, strange how its seems evil helped us further then good."

This is twisted. How in the name of logic can you read thru Genesis and skew it like this? You quote that God was keeping us ignorant...of what? Of wanting to kill each other and turn sex into an orgy of mindless caous? Which is what happened after both of them ate that thing. By accepting Satans rules of evil into their bodies and lives, they also accepted it for the world. We are tainted with it. You say God didn't teach them anything. It talks about how he talked with them in the garden, and how he sought them in the garden.
Not only that, but by eating of evil, we accepted death. Adam and Eve were not meant to die before that moment. Earth was supposed to be Heaven on earth.
There is no Hell for Satan to dwell in when he has the earth to do his liking with.

Evil helped us further then good? Then bloody hell, I want to be ignorant! No more holocausts or backyards of prisons for me, no thank you!

[Amerixican]

The serpent was more subtil than any other beast and he said unto Eve......Ye shall surely not die."
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not, because Adam was the serpent. It was he that was good for food, pleasant to the eyes and desired to make wise.

Then when the Lord confronted Adam on his deception and rebellion, he tried to blame God and Eve and Adam's seed has been doing that ever since.

The Gospel of nature's God intends a man to love his woman before he appropriates her. This Adam did not have the patience to accomplish. So he accused God in his mind, convicted Him, killed Him and replaced Him with Adam's ego, and, Adam's own thinking became the highest authority on the highest throne of Adam's mind.

So Adam set up Eve to make the first move so he would be "innocent" of taking her before their love was ripe.

Making our will to be supreme is the highest idolatry. It is the adversary to all that the Lord Intends for mankind. It is satan.
There is no other satan, but ourselves.

[Captain Saeta]

Amerixican

The serpent was more subtil than any other beast and he said unto Eve......Ye shall surely not die."
Eve was deceived, but Adam was not, because Adam was the serpent. It was he that was good for food, pleasant to the eyes and desired to make wise.

Then when the Lord confronted Adam on his deception and rebellion, he tried to blame God and Eve and Adam's seed has been doing that ever since.

The Gospel of nature's God intends a man to love his woman before he appropriates her. This Adam did not have the patience to accomplish. So he accused God in his mind, convicted Him, killed Him and replaced Him with Adam's ego, and, Adam's own thinking became the highest authority on the highest throne of Adam's mind.

So Adam set up Eve to make the first move so he would be "innocent" of taking her before their love was ripe.

Making our will to be supreme is the highest idolatry. It is the adversary to all that the Lord Intends for mankind. It is satan.
There is no other satan, but ourselves.

Men? Men are the problem? Sorry, you're not doing much better than the OP in this regard- while indeed there IS some male-chauvinism here, it's not THAT controversial as the claim you throw out. To start, your disregard that the serpent was punished alongside Adam, hence they're two different creatures, man and this snake.

[Captain Saeta]

Ah Chew

In our pre-mortal life there were 2 spiritual children who had progressed so much that they were practically Gods without a body. These two children were Lucifer and Jesus. We, as spirit Children came together in a heavenly counsel to create a plan to obtain a body and return to our heavenly father so that we may be complete.
Lucifer, or Satan as he was later called, wanted to make it to where everyone would come back to heaven with a body, but Christ argued that we should be able to chose to follow the lord and earn our place. God and Christ agreed that we should be accountable for our actions and not be forced to follow rules. Satan became very upset and raged against the plan of salvation and with him took down 1/3rd of the host of heaven. It is not because he had his own opinion, but that he took it in himself to go against God. Satan and his followers were banned from ever having a body, and there fore they are all simply miserable and evil spirits.
As we commonly here, misery enjoys company, and these fallen angels have made it their duty to tempt us and keep us from choosing the righteous and honorable way to receive celestial glory and restoration.


Like that with Adam and Eve, God did not force them to eat of the able. He said that his is the tree of life and the fruit is forbidden. They made their own choice to taste of the apple, and no one made them. If God was to force us to do something against our wills, then he would break enternal law and cease to be God.

Even though this may make him appear to be villainous at times, in the end it is better for our understanding that we learn the hard way.

I hope that adds to the discussion.

D;
I forgot where I was going with that.

The former part there, dealing with pre-existance, that's LDS doctrine, is it not? Because it's a little unknown to people, myself included to some extent (although I've a basic understanding of some Mormon doctrine- in context, mind you, so far as I'm able to tell), I'd like to make sure that we all know what's being discussed, so as to separate it from Catholic or Protestant doctrine. wink

Agreed in full regarding Adam & Eve (I think the consensus is that, if indeed a plant known to us today at all, the Fruit of Knowledge would likely be a pomegranate). wink

[Renee Katz]

Amerixican

Making our will to be supreme is the highest idolatry. It is the adversary to all that the Lord Intends for mankind. It is satan.
There is no other satan, but ourselves.

Your beliefs are horrible. cry

[Suki_Chan_Kaggy]

Evil > Satan
Good >God
'Nuff said.
Add an extra o to God in the middle and you get "Good" =D

[GreenTigerr]

choco3

give me a break
god=good
Satan=evil
god does so many good think i've seen them

Can you explain the so many things because though I believe in God I don't think he does anything to effect what happens on earth

[Drusilla_Grey]

Well, I suppose it depends on who you talk to, and what stage in their life you catch them at.

[Malevolent Jelly Bean]

Renee Katz

Amerixican

Making our will to be supreme is the highest idolatry. It is the adversary to all that the Lord Intends for mankind. It is satan.
There is no other satan, but ourselves.

Your beliefs are horrible. cry

Her signature pisses me off too, aside from seeing her take a part of the Genesis story and warp it so badly it's mindnumbing to read.

[Exotic Guy]

Satan ofcourse... i still defend on Jesus no matter what... remember that

God is too wise to be mistaken and God is too good to be unkind. so if you don't understand fully the scripture, dont quote anything you never really understand because you will turn into confusion.

[NuVendetta]

Eddy Ramone

The Vampire V

So what is your personal opinion on why God does what he does?

Because he can dude.

haha well said