God and Satan, who is actually Evil?

[NuVendetta]

I read a report my friend Joey sent me and it made me ponder. After pouring over the Bible all night, I have come to see that maybe the author of the report maybe right.

Many faiths paint God has a powerful loving God always looking out for the well being of Man while the Satan is Man's destoyer and corruption and that all evil in the world exist because of him.

In the Book of Genesis, The Serpeant (Satan) tricked Eve into eating the fruit, making Mankind aware of itself, and if not for God keeping Adam and Eve ignorant of the punishments that would befall us. In truth, from what I read, God made no effort to teach us, we were his sheperds of the animals. While God made us ignorant, the Satan made us aware, strange how its seems evil helped us further then good.

The essay I read had a good point, in Genesis, there are actually two LORDs, the Lord God who created, and the Lord who helped Mankind after its banishment of Paradise. The faiths say this is God who protected Cain after he killed Abel(which, as the report says, he didn't kill Abel but rather out ranked him) but if you read later on, God called for the sacrifice of the first born, slaying of the people of Canaan, the destruction of His city of Jerusalem, the plagues of the Revelations, total obedience of Mankind or face total judgement.

Its interesting how God is said to be a merciful God yet He shows no restraint in our judgement.

It is said tha Lucifer fell do to his ambition and could rival God's power, rival even the power of the Creator, and that with his power, he plans to destroy mankind. Yet as I read the bible fully, its God that gets to destroying Mankind.

Ironic?

The entire Old Testament is full of bloodshed, and not once in all of it, is it caused by the Devil.

The book of Job, which I have opened to as I write this, is about a pure upright God worshipping who is tested by plague, horror, and pain.

"On day, the Angels came present to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came with them."

First, if Lucifer is the Satan, who was supposably banished down to hell, why can he come foreword and talk to God? In truth, in alot of faiths and their mono faith in one God, Lucifer is the equal of God (Good and Evil, two halves to make a perfect sphere), yet he was called to be an angel, in which God is also said to be an angel as he wrestled Jacob and many other presences before Man.

All religions are very closly tied together just time and Human nature calling each a different name or lowering on god below another (A God becomes an Angel, an Angel becomes a Nephilim, etc).

Look at Noah and the flood, God wishes to destroy mankind yet tells Noah of the flood and tells him to prepare an ark. In Babylonian myth, One God went to destroy the world with a flood, another told a single man of it and prepare a vessel for the animals and his family.

Another interesting twist is again back in Genesis, that in Adam's family tree in chapter 5, Cain is not listed. Is it because Cain was a murderer and he was exempt from the Family Tree?

Actually, it is said that Eve was helped to conceived to have a child by the Lord, who is said to be none other the Satan, protector of Cain who was the first born, and who was not Adam's child.

Interesting, that the first offspring of Mankind, was actually supposably from Evil. If you believe in the marriage of Jesus and Mary and their child, imagine passing a descendent of Satan on the street.

The Book of Revelations is an interesting concept, Man is granted peace by a sole man(The antichrist) yet God seeks to judge the world with pestilence and death. If the Antichrist is suppose evil, why does he bring peace to the world and it is the God that destroys it?

So blind is the truth.

I am no Satanist but neither am I a God worshiping faithist, I serve neither one, I am a Humanist and follow the teachings of Man, I am, like many others, a hunter for Truth.

For those who would like to read the report, he is the address:

http://www.the600club.com/satanism.f_satanism_14680_0_collapsed_5__1.html

Much thanks to Joey for this.

[Captain Saeta]

While I can certainly appreciate some abstract, creative thinking as to Scripture and its interpretation, this really seems to pull out all the stops, arranging clear Biblical positions in ways far different than the intended interpretation to its own end. One such example is the assertion that Cain did not kill Abel even though it's QUITE clear in the text that Abel IS dead by way of his brother, Cain's, hands. Another is that there are two gods, never commented upon in Scripture. This essay also seems to primarily assume fundamentalist Christian belief that Satan has fallen (yet, although Revelation does suggest this is forthcoming) at all, whereas this account is not to be found in the Bible, hence Satan's walking through Heaven in the Book of Job (in which, by the way, most of the troubles that befall our friend, Job, come about through Satan, God allowing these things only so as to prove that Job was QUITE the firm believer in God- God knows well that Job shall be reunited in due time with his family, as did Job, sad though he was, so that this is only temporary suffering for a much greater cause). In regards, also, to God Judgments of mankind, it is notable that these judgments come to pass only when a group has first fallen from His good graces, when they've no interest in obeying Him any longer (God did agree with Abraham to spare Sodom of its destruction if there were Righteous people there at all, did He not? Lot and his family gone from the city, there was no city to be found within minutes of their leaving).

[ajax2k8]

Captain Saeta

While I can certainly appreciate some abstract, creative thinking as to Scripture and its interpretation, this really seems to pull out all the stops, arranging clear Biblical positions in ways far different than the intended interpretation to its own end. One such example is the assertion that Cain did not kill Abel even though it's QUITE clear in the text that Abel IS dead by way of his brother, Cain's, hands. Another is that there are two gods, never commented upon in Scripture. This essay also seems to primarily assume fundamentalist Christian belief that Satan has fallen (yet, although Revelation does suggest this is forthcoming) at all, whereas this account is not to be found in the Bible, hence Satan's walking through Heaven in the Book of Job (in which, by the way, most of the troubles that befall our friend, Job, come about through Satan, God allowing these things only so as to prove that Job was QUITE the firm believer in God- God knows well that Job shall be reunited in due time with his family, as did Job, sad though he was, so that this is only temporary suffering for a much greater cause). In regards, also, to God Judgments of mankind, it is notable that these judgments come to pass only when a group has first fallen from His good graces, when they've no interest in obeying Him any longer (God did agree with Abraham to spare Sodom of its destruction if there were Righteous people there at all, did He not? Lot and his family gone from the city, there was no city to be found within minutes of their i love god simple as that leaving).

i love god simple as thatr

[newbman]

Ok, my so very confused friend, I have a few things to point out to you.

a) The book of Job is in the jewish tanach (I am jewish) and in judaism Sa'tan is an angel, not a devil (devils do not exist). Sa'tan challenged God that Job would curse God's name. God beliveing in one of this strongest supporter allowed the testing, but not out of spite, but out of trust and belive.

b) In the jewish Tananch God kills, and orders killing etc. to maintain order. Judaism was fledgling back then, and Jews were often tempted by the polytheistic Cannanite, Medonites, etc. God, and the jewish leaders needed to create and enforce strict ruling in order to ensure that Jews would not simply convert to these easier religions.

c) Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Rabbis say that the fruit of knowledge contained the powers of God. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit (said to be a pomegranet not an apple), God quickly stripped them of thier deity status and punished them further, making Adam work for his life and Eve have difficult labors. When Cain killed Abel (and he did kill Abel) God punished Cain, but gave Cain a wife, so humanity would continue.

d) Your points do very little to prove that Satan (or Sa'tan) is better or "gooder" than God is, infact you are only finding the questions that have plauge bible scholars for ages "why does God do these horrible things"

[Captain Saeta]

newbman

Ok, my so very confused friend, I have a few things to point out to you.

a) The book of Job is in the jewish tanach (I am jewish) and in judaism Sa'tan is an angel, not a devil (devils do not exist). Sa'tan challenged God that Job would curse God's name. God beliveing in one of this strongest supporter allowed the testing, but not out of spite, but out of trust and belive.

b) In the jewish Tananch God kills, and orders killing etc. to maintain order. Judaism was fledgling back then, and Jews were often tempted by the polytheistic Cannanite, Medonites, etc. God, and the jewish leaders needed to create and enforce strict ruling in order to ensure that Jews would not simply convert to these easier religions.

c) Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Rabbis say that the fruit of knowledge contained the powers of God. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit (said to be a pomegranet not an apple), God quickly stripped them of thier deity status and punished them further, making Adam work for his life and Eve have difficult labors. When Cain killed Abel (and he did kill Abel) God punished Cain, but gave Cain a wife, so humanity would continue.

d) Your points do very little to prove that Satan (or Sa'tan) is better or "gooder" than God is, infact you are only finding the questions that have plauge bible scholars for ages "why does God do these horrible things"

Well said, very, very well said. wink

[NuVendetta]

So what is your personal opinion on why God does what he does?

[Ah Chew]

In our pre-mortal life there were 2 spiritual children who had progressed so much that they were practically Gods without a body. These two children were Lucifer and Jesus. We, as spirit Children came together in a heavenly counsel to create a plan to obtain a body and return to our heavenly father so that we may be complete.
Lucifer, or Satan as he was later called, wanted to make it to where everyone would come back to heaven with a body, but Christ argued that we should be able to chose to follow the lord and earn our place. God and Christ agreed that we should be accountable for our actions and not be forced to follow rules. Satan became very upset and raged against the plan of salvation and with him took down 1/3rd of the host of heaven. It is not because he had his own opinion, but that he took it in himself to go against God. Satan and his followers were banned from ever having a body, and there fore they are all simply miserable and evil spirits.
As we commonly here, misery enjoys company, and these fallen angels have made it their duty to tempt us and keep us from choosing the righteous and honorable way to receive celestial glory and restoration.


Like that with Adam and Eve, God did not force them to eat of the able. He said that his is the tree of life and the fruit is forbidden. They made their own choice to taste of the apple, and no one made them. If God was to force us to do something against our wills, then he would break enternal law and cease to be God.

Even though this may make him appear to be villainous at times, in the end it is better for our understanding that we learn the hard way.

I hope that adds to the discussion.

D;
I forgot where I was going with that.

[LonelyBoyBoy]

i still believe in the Lord Jesus.

[Nadreth]

I don't personally view God or Satan as evil - I like to think in grays - but let here are my points towards why I don't think God is all that great.

A) Heaven is my version of hell - perhaps this is merely a personal preference - but eternal peace and eternal worshiping of this God fellow? No thank you - I'd much rather burn in hell if it's all the same to you. Maybe I ought to take up praying - "Dear God, please do not put me in that heaven place it sounds quite boring and unchanging - I'd very much like to go to hell if I can't stay on earth - thanks very much love you lots but not enough to visit - Amen."

B) Is it just me or does he seem a tad self-absorbed...the whole worship me, give sacrifices to me, do whatever I say or feel my "justice". I mean how many of the seven deadly sins does that fill - lets see theres pride there, greed, and wrath - ooh that's three! Very nice God bravo - great example for your people!

C) Cruel - doesn't anyone else think he's a bit cruel? I mean we get told if we are not baptized we go to hell...so what about in places where they don't have churches - bibles...what about little children? Ah - what about children who die at birth - born to a good Christian family - do they go to hell? Mercy? Ha!

Now I know, I didn't back anything up with fact, I'm sarcastic and mean, but to you Christians about to take offense and angrily type back stop a moment. If your going to follow this God fellow around in circles then you have to follow his teachings - and I believe there was something or rather about only god being able to judge? Good luck. Happy camping.

[Wizardly Angst]

"evil" is the term we have created

plus you can believe the texts of the Bible word for literal word, the book has been touched
and rewritten so many times by human hands the tales of morality that lay within its pages
are just that: stories

but to stay on topic, God is the "good" and Satan is the "evil" since Satan went and
contradicted God

but again this are just terms created by humans, and i will also note the English language is not the true language that the texts were first written. so the original human hands that touched the texts
have long been lost, unless of course you seek the Greek, Latin or best of all the Jewish translations of the terms in the "Bible"

[Section13 Father Anderson]

Jesus Christ is in Heaven

Thought provoking.
Consider this: Lucifer, which means "Light Bearer" btw, is almost always depicted as a being of light and/or immense beauty and power. It is also said a being of Light came before Mary and proclaimed her to be the mother of the child of God.
Lucifer, being the satan, adversary or deceiver, is not the adversary of God, but of man. In essence the devil is who God would send when he wants to screw with or test his followers. The story of Lu's fall from grace was a later addition to his mythology.
The Flood is a common vehicle in religions the world over to describe a great disaster of divine origin so it shouldn't be looked at in a purely Christian way.
Also, there is that one little discrepancy with Eve being the first woman. Genesis 1:27 says
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
However, in Genesis 2:21-22 is depicts God making a woman from Adam's rib well after Adam was created, so Eve would be the second woman. Check out the mythology on Lilith to find out just how just and loving God is.

Speak with the Dead

[Gods-Girl-Forever]

The Vampire V

I read a report my friend Joey sent me and it made me ponder. After pouring over the Bible all night, I have come to see that maybe the author of the report maybe right.

Many faiths paint God has a powerful loving God always looking out for the well being of Man while the Satan is Man's destoyer and corruption and that all evil in the world exist because of him.

In the Book of Genesis, The Serpeant (Satan) tricked Eve into eating the fruit, making Mankind aware of itself, and if not for God keeping Adam and Eve ignorant of the punishments that would befall us. In truth, from what I read, God made no effort to teach us, we were his sheperds of the animals. While God made us ignorant, the Satan made us aware, strange how its seems evil helped us further then good.

The essay I read had a good point, in Genesis, there are actually two LORDs, the Lord God who created, and the Lord who helped Mankind after its banishment of Paradise. The faiths say this is God who protected Cain after he killed Abel(which, as the report says, he didn't kill Abel but rather out ranked him) but if you read later on, God called for the sacrifice of the first born, slaying of the people of Canaan, the destruction of His city of Jerusalem, the plagues of the Revelations, total obedience of Mankind or face total judgement.

Its interesting how God is said to be a merciful God yet He shows no restraint in our judgement.

It is said tha Lucifer fell do to his ambition and could rival God's power, rival even the power of the Creator, and that with his power, he plans to destroy mankind. Yet as I read the bible fully, its God that gets to destroying Mankind.

Ironic?

The entire Old Testament is full of bloodshed, and not once in all of it, is it caused by the Devil.

The book of Job, which I have opened to as I write this, is about a pure upright God worshipping who is tested by plague, horror, and pain.

"On day, the Angels came present to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came with them."

First, if Lucifer is the Satan, who was supposably banished down to hell, why can he come foreword and talk to God? In truth, in alot of faiths and their mono faith in one God, Lucifer is the equal of God (Good and Evil, two halves to make a perfect sphere), yet he was called to be an angel, in which God is also said to be an angel as he wrestled Jacob and many other presences before Man.

All religions are very closly tied together just time and Human nature calling each a different name or lowering on god below another (A God becomes an Angel, an Angel becomes a Nephilim, etc).

Look at Noah and the flood, God wishes to destroy mankind yet tells Noah of the flood and tells him to prepare an ark. In Babylonian myth, One God went to destroy the world with a flood, another told a single man of it and prepare a vessel for the animals and his family.

Another interesting twist is again back in Genesis, that in Adam's family tree in chapter 5, Cain is not listed. Is it because Cain was a murderer and he was exempt from the Family Tree?

Actually, it is said that Eve was helped to conceived to have a child by the Lord, who is said to be none other the Satan, protector of Cain who was the first born, and who was not Adam's child.

Interesting, that the first offspring of Mankind, was actually supposably from Evil. If you believe in the marriage of Jesus and Mary and their child, imagine passing a descendent of Satan on the street.

The Book of Revelations is an interesting concept, Man is granted peace by a sole man(The antichrist) yet God seeks to judge the world with pestilence and death. If the Antichrist is suppose evil, why does he bring peace to the world and it is the God that destroys it?

So blind is the truth.

I am no Satanist but neither am I a God worshiping faithist, I serve neither one, I am a Humanist and follow the teachings of Man, I am, like many others, a hunter for Truth.

For those who would like to read the report, he is the address:

http://www.the600club.com/satanism.f_satanism_14680_0_collapsed_5__1.html

Much thanks to Joey for this.

i think you dont serve Christ b/c you dont want to knucle under and serve someone higher than you. i can read through the lines in many of the things you and your freinds have said, and im disapointed. im a very strong Christ fallower (christian) the reson why i call myself Christ Fallower is b/c many people have used the name Christian b/c they think they will get to heaven but do all these sinful things too.uhh NO ya cant do that. so i use Christ fallower instead. my point here is satan is the bad guy Jesus is the good guy. you dont have to believe it but i just want to tell you that if there is things in the Bible you dont understand ask Jesus to revil things to you, and he will if your heart is in to it.
God Bless Jesus loves you all.^.^

[French Duke]

The Vampire V

So what is your personal opinion on why God does what he does?

Because he can dude.

[Nadreth]

Gods-Girl-Forever

The Vampire V

I read a report my friend Joey sent me and it made me ponder. After pouring over the Bible all night, I have come to see that maybe the author of the report maybe right.

Many faiths paint God has a powerful loving God always looking out for the well being of Man while the Satan is Man's destoyer and corruption and that all evil in the world exist because of him.

In the Book of Genesis, The Serpeant (Satan) tricked Eve into eating the fruit, making Mankind aware of itself, and if not for God keeping Adam and Eve ignorant of the punishments that would befall us. In truth, from what I read, God made no effort to teach us, we were his sheperds of the animals. While God made us ignorant, the Satan made us aware, strange how its seems evil helped us further then good.

The essay I read had a good point, in Genesis, there are actually two LORDs, the Lord God who created, and the Lord who helped Mankind after its banishment of Paradise. The faiths say this is God who protected Cain after he killed Abel(which, as the report says, he didn't kill Abel but rather out ranked him) but if you read later on, God called for the sacrifice of the first born, slaying of the people of Canaan, the destruction of His city of Jerusalem, the plagues of the Revelations, total obedience of Mankind or face total judgement.

Its interesting how God is said to be a merciful God yet He shows no restraint in our judgement.

It is said tha Lucifer fell do to his ambition and could rival God's power, rival even the power of the Creator, and that with his power, he plans to destroy mankind. Yet as I read the bible fully, its God that gets to destroying Mankind.

Ironic?

The entire Old Testament is full of bloodshed, and not once in all of it, is it caused by the Devil.

The book of Job, which I have opened to as I write this, is about a pure upright God worshipping who is tested by plague, horror, and pain.

"On day, the Angels came present to present themselves before the LORD and Satan also came with them."

First, if Lucifer is the Satan, who was supposably banished down to hell, why can he come foreword and talk to God? In truth, in alot of faiths and their mono faith in one God, Lucifer is the equal of God (Good and Evil, two halves to make a perfect sphere), yet he was called to be an angel, in which God is also said to be an angel as he wrestled Jacob and many other presences before Man.

All religions are very closly tied together just time and Human nature calling each a different name or lowering on god below another (A God becomes an Angel, an Angel becomes a Nephilim, etc).

Look at Noah and the flood, God wishes to destroy mankind yet tells Noah of the flood and tells him to prepare an ark. In Babylonian myth, One God went to destroy the world with a flood, another told a single man of it and prepare a vessel for the animals and his family.

Another interesting twist is again back in Genesis, that in Adam's family tree in chapter 5, Cain is not listed. Is it because Cain was a murderer and he was exempt from the Family Tree?

Actually, it is said that Eve was helped to conceived to have a child by the Lord, who is said to be none other the Satan, protector of Cain who was the first born, and who was not Adam's child.

Interesting, that the first offspring of Mankind, was actually supposably from Evil. If you believe in the marriage of Jesus and Mary and their child, imagine passing a descendent of Satan on the street.

The Book of Revelations is an interesting concept, Man is granted peace by a sole man(The antichrist) yet God seeks to judge the world with pestilence and death. If the Antichrist is suppose evil, why does he bring peace to the world and it is the God that destroys it?

So blind is the truth.

I am no Satanist but neither am I a God worshiping faithist, I serve neither one, I am a Humanist and follow the teachings of Man, I am, like many others, a hunter for Truth.

For those who would like to read the report, he is the address:

http://www.the600club.com/satanism.f_satanism_14680_0_collapsed_5__1.html

Much thanks to Joey for this.

i think you dont serve Christ b/c you dont want to knucle under and serve someone higher than you. i can read through the lines in many of the things you and your freinds have said, and im disapointed. im a very strong Christ fallower (christian) the reson why i call myself Christ Fallower is b/c many people have used the name Christian b/c they think they will get to heaven but do all these sinful things too.uhh NO ya cant do that. so i use Christ fallower instead. my point here is satan is the bad guy Jesus is the good guy. you dont have to believe it but i just want to tell you that if there is things in the Bible you dont understand ask Jesus to revil things to you, and he will if your heart is in to it.
God Bless Jesus loves you all.^.^

Darling it's wonderful that you love Jesus and so on - but please don't butcher the English language.

[choco3]

give me a break
god=good
Satan=evil
god does so many good think i've seen them